CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[Tortoise]

timestamp 13:01 day 37 part 2 (yesterday)

McGee: Isn't it true your department in the investigation of this case were tying the grave site to the Fallbrook house saying that the futon cover

Imes: objection - assumes facts not in evidence - overruled

McGee: was wrapped, the futon cover was wrapped around Joseph?

Smith: That was one of the suspicions we've had, I think I've testified about this previously as well, we can't say for sure that it was the futon cover wrapped around Joseph, I'm not aware of any specific positions, there are some comparisons that we made and it is odd [one?] cover was missing however I'm unaware of any specific report saying this cover at the grave is the futon because we weren't able to say yes or no.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

IMO I think it's more likely the family was going through papers between the 15th -19th, as was testified about. IMO if Chase had the list of Joey's accounts and passwords, he would have done more, like accessing the email quickbooks sent, if his intention was to delete the QB's online account. The list of accounts/pswd's I have seen of Joey's (included banking), Chase could have done some major damage if that was the intention. Also, if it was indeed Chase that did the cheques before Feb 4th, he already had access to the custom account anyway.

ETA: What makes you think he had access to the emails?

There was some discussion about an email that had been forwarded to Chase (I think) from Joseph’s email, if I am recalling correctly. It was like weeks after they went missing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Why wouldn’t they look at them all thoroughly? They want to know who the killer is.

I think they looked at all of the potential suspects and ruled them out, one by one, until there was one that piled up evidence pointing their way

Didnt LE have 60 SWs executed during the long investigation?

If so, it shows they thoroughly investigated this case inside, and out before finally arresting CM.

This certainly was no rush to judgement case by any means.

Due to all the surrounding circumstances its logical CM would be included on the list as a potential suspect.

No one was more tied closely to Joey around the time they were murdered than CM.

Yet, they investigated all aspects of the case thoroughly without rushing, and only after the evidence collected pointed to CM, and no other was he finally arrested.

It sickens me he was allowed to walk around free for years, but thankful he was finally arrested.

When he was walking around free what it also allowed him to do though was be able to scam two more businessmen out of thousands of dollars. That's the ones we are aware of, and there very well be more who are too ashamed to come forward that they fell for his ripoff cons.

So even after murdering Joey, and his family it still did not curb his insatiable appetite to keep scamming others out of their money too.

It shows he has no qualms victimizing anyone. Even after the murders it didn't change him, showing he had no regrets or remorse for taking all 4 lives. Imo, they were just obstacles standing in his way to get what he wanted.

His need for greed to steal funds from others is the only thing that has ever mattered to him. Imo, he has done other criminal acts, but wasn't caught for everything he has done. Imo, its obvious the zebra did not change his stripes even after committing 4 murders.

Imo

 

[Niner]

Thank you Tortoise! Was there also a DNA analyst as Frankie Hellis mentions in their post #681? A person from Bode Labs, maybe?

TIA! Just want to keep my notes straight!

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you Tortoise! Was there also a DNA analyst as Frankie Hellis mentions in their post #681? A person from Bode Labs, maybe?

TIA! Just want to keep my notes straight!

I haven't heard anything yet about who testified in the afternoon Niner.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It is definitely not common for someone with no violent crime history to torture and murder a family of 4 with 2 babies.

Morning smr!

I wish there was some kind of solid proof
predictor of who will murder, and who will not.

I'm sure LE wishes that was the solid formula they could always rely on when apprehending murder suspects, but sadly it's not a predictor of anything. Murderers are as individual as the murders they commit.

Unfortunately, there have been many brutal murders committed by those who had no criminal history whatsoever...not even a parking ticket.

Here CM does have a long criminal history. Along with being a twice convicted felon, he has done several stints in jail. It shows he has no respect for the rule of law nor did he even abide by the parole guidelines he had in place for years.

Imo,the motive for these murders is consistent with his criminal past. It's not unusual for suspects to elevate to other more violent crimes. He has long been a victimizer of others, and at the center of all of them is a need to steal from others.

We see he had done the same thing to Joey, and continued after he had murdered them. He knew Joey wasnt going to open up his business funds to this man telling him....steal what you want. The only way he could do that was if Joey wasnt alive anymore.

Imoo, murdering the two little boys, that I dont think he even liked, meant nothing to him. He knew both were old enough to identify him. Even children as young as two years old were able to identify the killer who had murdered their parent. The McStay boys were very verbal, and imo, CM knew it. He left no living witnesses behind in order to protect what he had done.

Imo

 

[la2cabo]

Just wanna note... those pics of paperwork... Denys Williams was asked where they came from, she said they were on top of hte container, she figured someone else put them there....

anyone wanna take bets that it was the family? LOL

and? I don't see the significance in the family doing it.

 

[smr]

Not uncommon at all IMO. Chris Watts murdered his family too with no apparent violent history. And what a horrific case that has turned out to be.

I think you didn't get my point. Please remember I only mentioned no violent history AFTER some of you used being ex-con to add to the support of CM killed the family. So to be clear: my point is, being ex-con, a non-violent ex-con, in no way add to the "CM is guilty" argument.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

“There are standards that need to be met...”

Yes, exactly. She ran the mvac testing in her lab and it wasn’t accredited. I would have thought this was a big deal, but apparently not.

I have no doubt the jury paid very close attention to the unaccredited part. They dont have to be told numerous times.

Imo, they will notate this info in the copious notes they are taking.

The state will bring it up again in CA as well imo.

 

[smr]

The problem with murder cases is that no one really knows exactly what happened and where etc., and unless the murderer confesses to that it is all theoretical as to the exact details. In other words it can't be proven, only that a person or persons have been murdered.
That's why in any investigation, the more evidence that is found can give investigators a fairly good idea as to what could of happened. IMO.

That's why it's ridiculous for the PT to claim the family was killed at home, and by CM alone.

 

[smr]

He probably said it because it wa in the forefront of his mind, not to implicate Chase. He even says as much later in the video.

My turn to cite "common sense": Common sense tells one MM suspected CM in March 2010. Ask anyone who watched that clip.

 

[smr]

Missy,
Yes! It looks like logins and passwords. Maybe how Chase got into email, the phone and quickbooks?

Or how someone else got into email.

There is a lot of misinformation (I'm not talking about opinion) being posted in these threads

RSBM

Such as "JM was planning to fire CM", CM swinging a (dead?) cat.

 

[smr]

and in deputy Tingley's testimony it was also raised that Mike reported the PayPal detail as information he felt he shouldn't be telling him and Tingley wrote his words down as a direct quote. My take is that Mike didn't want to get Merritt into trouble. Timestamp 3:17 to 4:27.

There has been no sign whatsoever that Mike didn't want to get Merritt into trouble.

 

[fridaybaker]

Yes exactly. And distribute fliers, go to candlelight vigils, help in searches etc.

SO common!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That's why it's ridiculous for the PT to claim the family was killed at home, and by CM alone.

May I ask why you think this?

In other cases when the bodies are found away from the location of the murders the police often use what was found inside the grave to establish the most likely location of where the murders occured.

I do think the items, clothing etc does support the murders happen at home.

However proving the murder location is not a legal burden placed on the state.

If that was the legal burden then no missing body murder case could ever be tried, nor suspects ever convicted.

Yet, those kind of cases have almost become common place now, and successfully won. Yet they didn't even know where the murder took place or where the suspect placed the murder victim.

The jury is there to decide one thing only, and that is does the evidence prove CM is guilty BARD or not.

It really doesn't matter where he may have carried out the murders. The jury is not there to determine the location of where it may have happened....only that it did happen,and CM is G BARD or NG.

The state has one legal burden to meet only. Not where, how, when,or even why it happened but to only prove WHO did it BARD.

Imo

 

[la2cabo]

May I ask why you think this?

In other cases when the bodies are found away from the location of the murders the police often use what was found inside the grave to establish the most likely location of where the murders occured.

I do think the items, clothing etc does support the murders happen at home.

However proving the murder location is not a legal burden placed on the state.

If that was the legal burden then no missing body murder case could ever be tried, nor suspects ever convicted.

Yet, those kind of cases have almost become common place now, and successfully won. Yet they didn't even know where the murder took place or where the suspect placed the murder victim.

The jury is there to decide one thing only, and that is does the evidence prove CM is guilty BARD or not.

It really doesn't matter where he may have carried out the murders. The jury is not there to determine the location of where it may have happened....only that it did happen,and CM is G BARD or NG.

The state has one legal burden to meet only. Not where, how, when,or even why it happened but to only prove WHO did it BARD.

Imo

Exactly!!

 

[MsBetsy]

Sorry to jump in and change the subject but years ago I remember reading that CM had told people he took a lie detector test.
I recently reviewed the case and found the same information, but nothing about whether it was verified or if he passed a lie detector test.
Does anyone know?

 

[Tortoise]

I think you didn't get my point. Please remember I only mentioned no violent history AFTER some of you used being ex-con to add to the support of CM killed the family. So to be clear: my point is, being ex-con, a non-violent ex-con, in no way add to the "CM is guilty" argument.

There's no known violent history - known being the key word.

I think a 2 hour session of smacking his young son is violent.

It's interesting that the Hare Psychopathy checklist lists criminal versatility as a trait - which means a diversity of crimes committed and from what I've read it doesn't have to be crimes that resulted in arrests or convictions.

Another item on the checklist is revocation of conditional release - he did violate his probation conditions.

Many other items on the checklist could be applied to what we know about him, including pathological lying.

He lied about purchasing QB because Joey wanted to hide his wealth from Summer, he impersonated Joey on the phone call, he lied about phoning Joey all weekend, he lied about Metro holding onto the cheques because they had a bank account problem, he lied about knowing he was at home that evening, he lied by giving different answers about the missed call and when he said he regretted not answering it, he lied about going to Joey's house first before going to see Susan (it was the other way around), he even made up a lie on the spot about two president's days.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

There has been no sign whatsoever that Mike didn't want to get Merritt into trouble.

I think the example I quoted is a sign. If he wanted to get Merritt into trouble he had no need to show reticence.

JMO

 

[Force Ten]

My turn to cite "common sense": Common sense tells one MM suspected CM in March 2010. Ask anyone who watched that clip.

Well, that's how I interpret it. It sounds like a guy speculating how his brother was lured out of the home and used a past example of having to leave. But I guess that indicates a lack of common sense on my part.