CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[Karinna]

That gruesome electric cord. Also I remember it mentioned somewhere JM's leg seemed to be broken while alive.

Even without torture, my point still stands: it's uncommon for someone with no violent crime history to murder a family of 4 with 2 babies.

Not uncommon at all IMO. Chris Watts murdered his family too with no apparent violent history. And what a horrific case that has turned out to be.

 

[Karinna]

One explanation is what McGee in his OS stated, that JM may have been killed separately and in another place the the rest of the family.

The problem with murder cases is that no one really knows exactly what happened and where etc., and unless the murderer confesses to that it is all theoretical as to the exact details. In other words it can't be proven, only that a person or persons have been murdered.
That's why in any investigation, the more evidence that is found can give investigators a fairly good idea as to what could of happened. IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Just wanna note... those pics of paperwork... Denys Williams was asked where they came from, she said they were on top of hte container, she figured someone else put them there....

anyone wanna take bets that it was the family? LOL

What paperwork?, tia.

 

[Force Ten]

Well, that is different than "not knowing him". Mike also didn't "know" Chase before Feb 13th, but I bet he only knew what kind of truck he had because he had gotten to know him the in the 3 weeks between the 13th and the Tim Miller video. The neighbour said a 'white' truck IIRC, and Chase's was white and grey at the time. I wonder if anyone, prosecution or defense has talked to that neighbour?

He probably said it because it wa in the forefront of his mind, not to implicate Chase. He even says as much later in the video.

 

[missy1974]

What paperwork?, tia.

oops, forgot to add it...

Just happened to come across it and had not noticed it before while looking for other photo's from today's testimony, thought I would share.

 

[Karinna]

oops, forgot to add it...

Just happened to come across it and had not noticed it before while looking for other photo's from today's testimony, thought I would share.

Thanks missy,

 

[Karinna]

Looks like a whole lot of scribble to me LOL.

 

[missy1974]

I think I have found some of the relevant exhibits from testimony today...

exhibit 92 is a photo of the laundry room, it isn't one that I recall looking at much, I could only find it in Denys Williams testimony and it wasn't the greatest quality, but it is what it is I can see what she was talking about with strings hanging, I only recalled the closer up pic (which was exhibit 93 lol), and that one doesn't show the strings.

exhibit 36 - photo of the futon, I've included the regular photo and the zoomed in one.

exhibit 5 - I believe is the photo of the boys on the futon. I didn't get the photo from testimony, I already had it and it's probably better quality.

exhibit 121 - not mentioned by exhibit number IIRC, but it is a photo of the cushions that were in the upstairs bedroom.

I have added some photo's I found online, I think the one was from a Daily Mail article. The other is from this article: dated March 18, 2010. Brother Offers Tour of Missing Family's Home

Hope this helps when listening to the audio, I know I like to have the visuals!

ETA: the link to the article... geesh I'm forgetful tonight lol

 

[missy1974]

Looks like a whole lot of scribble to me LOL.

I zoomed in. I have said it before, if it was my family, the first thing I would be doing is looking for online accounts, passwords, etc. Most people I know, have them written down somewhere. This just confirms my thought. JMO

 

[katydid23]

It is definitely not common for someone with no violent crime history to torture and murder a family of 4 with 2 babies.

Thrrr are plenty of people who kill without having a previous history of violence. It is often an escalation from other crimes, like drugs and burglary, in which the perp goes further than he had previously

 

[katydid23]

Didn't McGyver also own a white truck, though? Why put CM on the spot so early?

What evidence is there against McGyver though?

I would imagine they looked st him as he spent time at the home before they went missing

But he didn’t write himself any checks from Joeys account on the 4th , delete and forge then cash them the next day.

And he didn’t claim to be the last person to see Joey and he didn’t pretend to be Joey and call QB to close the online account

I don’t think they had many reasons to believe that McGyver was the perpetrator.

 

[katydid23]

I see.

I still find it interesting, especially because Chase was the one who alerted MM and persuade him to go to the house to check.

There are many cases where the killer calls others to have them go check on the victim

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I zoomed in. I have said it before, if it was my family, the first thing I would be doing is looking for online accounts, passwords, etc. Most people I know, have them written down somewhere. This just confirms my thought. JMO

Missy,
Yes! It looks like logins and passwords. Maybe how Chase got into email, the phone and quickbooks?

 

[missy1974]

Missy,
Yes! It looks like logins and passwords. Maybe how Chase got into email, the phone and quickbooks?

IMO I think it's more likely the family was going through papers between the 15th -19th, as was testified about. IMO if Chase had the list of Joey's accounts and passwords, he would have done more, like accessing the email quickbooks sent, if his intention was to delete the QB's online account. The list of accounts/pswd's I have seen of Joey's (included banking), Chase could have done some major damage if that was the intention. Also, if it was indeed Chase that did the cheques before Feb 4th, he already had access to the custom account anyway.

ETA: What makes you think he had access to the emails?

 

[Karinna]

There are many cases where the killer calls others to have them go check on the victim

Yes exactly. And distribute fliers, go to candlelight vigils, help in searches etc.

 

[Tortoise]

Did McGee forget to ask Sanchez about Susan telling her around Feb. 15-16, 2010 that she didn't believe the family was coming back?

For comparison to what SB testified: 49:00-53:00 of the Day 31 Part 1:

Sanchez wasn't there around Feb 15-16 2010.

There is a lot of misinformation (I'm not talking about opinion) being posted in these threads recently which renders ensuing discussion pointless and misleading to posters who only read here and aren't listening to testimony, because it's not in line with the trial evidence. In the last couple of days (apart from this post) I've corrected posts misstating that -

(posts rsbm)

Post #930 Thread 14: The issue I have with his reasons is that he took the computer before Dugal even came out to the house.

Much of this, including Merritt's interview, happened after the warrants were executed on the home though.

It's interesting to note that LE states that CM was the first to alert SB, in contrast to what has been stated since that time.

This has been something they have mentioned numerous times, that his DNA wasn't found on that side of the Trooper

With regard to the prosecution mentioning no DNA on the passenger side of the Trooper numerous times I'm not sure if this is a misrepresentation or not but I haven't seen examples and I stand to be corrected if there are any that I missed other than the prosecutor stating those were the state's results during the hearing for dismissal outside the jury's presence. Maybe he asked DuGal to confirm if that is what Merritt told him during his interview? IDK but I don't think it's numerous and I also don't think it would be relevant to the state's case because the paintball excuse isn't corroborated (yet).

Returning to smr's post, if you follow the cross-examination in Day 31 Part 2 Susan went to the house on the 16th with McGyver. I recall her testifying previously that she didn't have Summer's mother's number at that time and that was what she was looking for in the house because she didn't want Summer's family to find out from the media the family was missing.

At 1:50 to 2:15 in the day 31 part 2 video Susan testifies that she went to the house to clean, with Kathy Sanchez and Blanche, many months later, around June 2010. Ms Sanchez testified the same yesterday - that it was spring/summer. Susan testified that the reason they went to clean was that the house was going into foreclosure.

So given the true facts and context, 4 months after the family vanished Susan may or may not have remarked that she felt they weren't coming back and it's hardly surprising (to me) that McGee would think that was relevant. He found out Sanchez wasn't there on Feb 16th during Susan's examination.

McGee tried ... it was objected to and sustained, later they went to sidebar and it was still sustained.

This isn't true. The sustained objection on relevancy grounds and evidence code 352 was a question McGee was going to ask Sanchez about what Susan may have said about her feelings about Summer, to Summer's cousin and mother.

I'm not posting this to be argumentative, I think it's important we keep to facts and so the discussion is relevant, whichever side of the fence anyone is on.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks T!

I am sure its the same for many of us but with no video and patchy schedule its become quite difficult to follow the case from over here so great to get the context of the testimony!

 

[Niner]

Since there was no more discussion on witnesses for the afternoon - I have nothing.... Anyone know "who" followed Summer's cousin? TIA!

Wednesday, April 10th:
*Trial continues (Day 39) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (53 @ time of crime/now 60 (61 on 5/2)) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women.
Trial Days (1-36; 1/17/19 thru 4/5/19) reference post #393 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15
4/8/19 Day 37 (Day 36 on L&C): Defense witness: Suzanna Ryan, described & demonstrated the M-Vac forensic DNA collection system. Trial continues on 4/9.
4/9/19 Day 38 (Day 37 on L&C): Defense witnesses: Kathy Sanchez, Summer McStay's cousin. And ?? Sgt. Ryan Smith?? Trial continues on 4/10.
Schedule for week of April 8th to 12th: Court on April 8 (Monday), April 9 (Tuesday), and April 10 (Wednesday). April 11 (Thursday)-NO jurors-Other hearing: Motion Hearing is for Motions to Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum related to Google, Microsoft, & TSG Documentary (interview w/Merritt). DARK on April 12 (Friday). Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

 

[Tortoise]

IMO I think it's more likely the family was going through papers between the 15th -19th, as was testified about. IMO if Chase had the list of Joey's accounts and passwords, he would have done more, like accessing the email quickbooks sent, if his intention was to delete the QB's online account. The list of accounts/pswd's I have seen of Joey's (included banking), Chase could have done some major damage if that was the intention. Also, if it was indeed Chase that did the cheques before Feb 4th, he already had access to the custom account anyway.

ETA: What makes you think he had access to the emails?

Mike told deputy Tingley when he made the missing person's report on Feb 15th that Merritt told him he had hacked into Joey's email and PayPal accounts. It's in Mike's testimony at timestamp 45:37 to 46:20

and in deputy Tingley's testimony it was also raised that Mike reported the PayPal detail as information he felt he shouldn't be telling him and Tingley wrote his words down as a direct quote. My take is that Mike didn't want to get Merritt into trouble. Timestamp 3:17 to 4:27.

I also think there's a possibility Merritt didn't reply to the email QuickBooks sent Joey because that would be evidence he had hacked in after Joey disappeared given that the call could be traced back to him. It was put to Cathy Jarvis that they (plural) changed phone carriers on Feb 17th, the date of Merritt's interview with detectives.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Since there was no more discussion on witnesses for the afternoon - I have nothing.... Anyone know "who" followed Summer's cousin? TIA!

Wednesday, April 10th:
*Trial continues (Day 39) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (53 @ time of crime/now 60 (61 on 5/2)) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women.
Trial Days (1-36; 1/17/19 thru 4/5/19) reference post #393 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15
4/8/19 Day 37 (Day 36 on L&C): Defense witness: Suzanna Ryan, described & demonstrated the M-Vac forensic DNA collection system. Trial continues on 4/9.
4/9/19 Day 38 (Day 37 on L&C): Defense witnesses: Kathy Sanchez, Summer McStay's cousin. And ?? Sgt. Ryan Smith?? Trial continues on 4/10.
Schedule for week of April 8th to 12th: Court on April 8 (Monday), April 9 (Tuesday), and April 10 (Wednesday). April 11 (Thursday)-NO jurors-Other hearing: Motion Hearing is for Motions to Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum related to Google, Microsoft, & TSG Documentary (interview w/Merritt). DARK on April 12 (Friday). Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.

I haven't listened to part 2 yet but seeing as it was only a 20 minute video I just skipped through it quickly and it was Sgt Ryan Smith recalled to testify about the futon covers.

At the end of yesterday morning's testimony they say they have another witness lined up for the afternoon starting at 1.30 pm but they don't say who that is and no video has been posted up yet.