CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17

[missy1974]

(quote)
Blake did testify her son wants to downgrade his business and buy Kavanaugh out. She said he wanted to buy a warehouse and use more local welders.

But she told Maline he was incorrect about her son wanting to keep Merritt. She testified McStay told her he wanted to cut ties with Merritt who had a gambling problem and it was costing him money.
McStay family murders: Mother of Joseph McStay testifies in Charles Merritt trial

Karinna, I listened to the testimony, she was recalled a few weeks ago, she was given a copy of her interview with Hanke in 2014. She told him that Joey would be adding to Chase and that he would still have Chase as a welder.

 

[katydid23]

Karinna, I listened to the testimony, she was recalled a few weeks ago, she was given a copy of her interview with Hanke in 2014. She told him that Joey would be adding to Chase and that he would still have Chase as a welder.

Right. But that is what she was told previously to Joey finding out about the deleted, then cashed checks from his bank account.

 

[mrjitty]

See... now go back to my original post... where I CLEARLY stated...

JMO based on the spreadsheets.

Not once did I base my post or my opinion on anything that Chase said.

Agreed.

Again we are both barking up the wrong tree

I was replying to Tortoise who agreed with and commented on the section she bolded.

i.e. Chase was no longer getting 65% (we agree) and he lied about it

Why he lied is significant IMO, and goes to the heart of the case

 

[missy1974]

Right. But that is what she was told previously to Joey finding out about the deleted, then cashed checks from his bank account.

But IF Joey did find out about those cheques, she didn't know about it... because nobody seems to know if he knew, so there was no other conversation contradicting the statement that he was adding to and keeping Chase as a welder. So there should be no confusion here IMO

 

[asyousay]

Chse stole money off Joey so that changed the whole game.

So even if 2 weeks prior he had plans with Chase then that changed as soon as he finds out Chase wrote out and chased a cheque that he didn’t have permission to do so.

 

[mrjitty]

(quote)
Blake did testify her son wants to downgrade his business and buy Kavanaugh out. She said he wanted to buy a warehouse and use more local welders.

But she told Maline he was incorrect about her son wanting to keep Merritt. She testified McStay told her he wanted to cut ties with Merritt who had a gambling problem and it was costing him money.
McStay family murders: Mother of Joseph McStay testifies in Charles Merritt trial

These are the steps towards ultimately bringing all production in house

I went through these stages myself at times with digital production

The advantage is that you have much more control. The disadvantage is that you have to replicate all the facilities etc a supplier like MSM already has.

 

[missy1974]

@bessie Have you had a chance to look at the spreadsheets that have been shown???? I know you did a lot of work on those years ago. They are more complete now... but seems the majority of what you were able to figure out was correct! Another poster was able to find some of your older posts a few weeks back.

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

 

[mrjitty]

Chse stole money off Joey so that changed the whole game.

So even if 2 weeks prior he had plans with Chase then that changed as soon as he finds out Chase wrote out and chased a cheque that he didn’t have permission to do so.

Personally I think Joey would have been forced into making radical changes to production with the growth of the business.

 

[asyousay]

Personally I think Joey would have been forced into making radical changes to production with the growth of the business.

I agree as we know Chase was a complete liability due to the complaints.

He was also conning Joey by switching out parts for cheaper parts and keeping the best parts for his own projects.

 

[bessie]

ohhh he did get it from NOAA (I have Oceanic ? in my notes lol). It was from the Victorville weather station ...

also from my notes..
for Jan - 27th .03 inches recorded, feb 2010 - accumulated rain from 1st -12th (on the 6th) 1.1 inches, 7th .03 inches

It's from Day 24 Part 3 around 49:00, cross was in Part 4 at the start, which wasn't earth shattering, just making it clear that it was a 24 hour accumulation and there was no indication of when during the day it occured.

Thank you for the direction to the testimony. I was unable to follow the early trial days, and I'm interested in hearing it. Just one comment, and then I'll step back from this issue (and the "stuck -in-my-craw" 30+ weather links, notes and images I accumulated ) unless it comes up again later in the trial. Those numbers basically match what I've seen in the past, but they don't agree with local reports of a "rain event" in the region Feb 5-6, 2010.

 

[mrjitty]

Mystery 'digger' track marks found at McStay family grave site | Daily Mail Online

Also great discussion on this topic in the main McStay forum. Members with time and interest can scroll through the discussion before and after this post.
The Gravesite

Pay particular attention to posts by @Sasquatch

The idea about the digger is pretty fascinating.

It would be such a gamechanger to the understanding of these murders if we go with @Tortoise 's view and he dug these holes in advance.

 

[Force Ten]

The officer today that testified responded to an accident in the Cajon Pass. He was asked about the weather that day.. of course the accident in the morning was considered rain/weather related. IIRC he said it was clear by 11am... said he didn't know what the weather was like in Victorville.

Det. Ryan Smith testified earlier in the trial that according to a gov't site, Victorville got around an inch I think (it was either just above or just under)... I would have to go back and listen. I know that the defense asked him if he knew when during that 24 hour period it rained, he didn't know.

ETA: just checked that link... eerie knowing that the problem in Cajon Pass was probably the accident that the officer was responding to that testified today ...

I missed the time the witness or defense stated the accident occurred. I'm not sure what relevance it plays as if we examine the timeline, we don't know when Chase may have drove that corridor. His phone was off or not available.

 

[bessie]

@bessie Have you had a chance to look at the spreadsheets that have been shown???? I know you did a lot of work on those years ago. They are more complete now... but seems the majority of what you were able to figure out was correct! Another poster was able to find some of your older posts a few weeks back.

CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

Another big Thank You! for the link, and to @Cricket28 for searching out those posts. I've just started looking through the spreadsheets from the evidence, and yeah, I have to admit a bit of satisfaction in knowing that I was on the right track when there was virtually no verified information. I was juggling numbers in the dark. LOL

 

[Tortoise]

However, no blood evidence was found on any of the cloth towels or blanket.

Really?

So blood that would have been sloshing around everywhere and dripping all around wasn't everywhere? Their heads didn't bleed?

Or he must have taken great precaution to keep those towels and cloths and blanket away from the gushing blood just so he could bury them clean.

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, April 23rd:
*Trial continues (Day 44) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 8 women & 4 men (alternates include 4 men & 2 women).
Trial Days (1-39; 1/17/19 thru 4/11/19) reference post #24 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #16
4/15/19 Day none: No court today, Merritt has a doctor’s appointment & his attorneys failed to tell the court. Court continues on 4/16.
4/16/19 Day 40: Defense witnesses: Annette Dron, QuickBooks Sales Manager. Sarah Kane, custodian of records, PayPal. Bryan C. La Rock, computer forensic analyst. Court continues on 4/17.
4/17/19 Day 41: Defense witness: Bryan Charles La Rock, computer forensic analyst. Trial continues on 4/18.
4/18/19 Day 42: Defense witness: Bryan Charles La Rock continues on cross. Motions hearing Friday, 4/19, with no jurors. Trial with jurors continues on Monday, 4/22.
4/19/19 Day none: Motions hearing without jurors. CSR Directed to prepare transcript of proceedings.
4/22/19 Day 43: Michael Leonard, a lawyer that dealt with the sale of the business (assuming EIP). Officer Jeffrey Adels, CHP officer. 402 hearing (without jurors) of Randall Beasley (blood splatter expert). Trial continues on 4/23.
Tentative Schedule for week of April 22nd thru 26th: Court with jurors on April 22 (Monday) and April 23 (Tuesday). On April 24 (Wednesday) - Motion hearing: Quash SDT-Google/Microsoft (Microsoft Corp. Motion To Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum). Court with jurors on April 25 (Thursday). Dark on April 26 (Friday).

 

[mrjitty]

I agree as we know Chase was a complete liability due to the complaints.

He was also conning Joey by switching out parts for cheaper parts and keeping the best parts for his own projects.

Well even despite my view that he was an unreliable conman, I think the changes would need to come anyway, based on experience of production

Working on stuff in an artisan kind of way works while the business is still small and you go from one job to the next.

But that way of working doesn't scale.

My wild speculation is that MSM was a step in the direction of having bench strength on the fabrication side. So you break down that part of the process to a contractor you can reply on to deliver (AFAIK there were no delivery issues with MSM)

But with a significant lift in volume I can see it getting problematic trying to run your business out of MSM premises without paying them more for that

And then there are all the issues of design and QA etc

Very quickly a key person is your project manager

 

[missy1974]

Another big Thank You! for the link, and to @Cricket28 for searching out those posts. I've just started looking through the spreadsheets from the evidence, and yeah, I have to admit a bit of satisfaction in knowing that I was on the right track when there was virtually no verified information. I was juggling numbers in the dark. LOL

I was impressed!!! LOL I found the spreadsheets awhile back, but you had this figured out 5 years ago! Figured you would like to see that someone found those posts and pointed them out

 

[mrjitty]

Really?

So blood that would have been sloshing around everywhere and dripping all around wasn't everywhere? Their heads didn't bleed?

Or he must have taken great precaution to keep those towels and cloths and blanket away from the gushing blood just so he could bury them clean.

We didn't even find any McStay DNA let alone blood!

 

[mrjitty]

For me a major issue with the defence case is the staging

Not the staging of the house specifically - but the hiding of the bodies.

This was not merely about forensics - it appeared a deliberate attempt to make it look like the McStays "went away" (a common theme in low end homicides)

So if DKs alibi was that he was in Hawaii - why did he need the McStays to "go away"?

 

[asyousay]

@missy1974

Just to say I don’t believe the family were killed in the home and I never have done.