CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17

[missy1974]

Thank you for the direction to the testimony. I was unable to follow the early trial days, and I'm interested in hearing it. Just one comment, and then I'll step back from this issue (and the "stuck -in-my-craw" 30+ weather links, notes and images I accumulated ) unless it comes up again later in the trial. Those numbers basically match what I've seen in the past, but they don't agree with local reports of a "rain event" in the region Feb 5-6, 2010.

I was reading some of the posts that you linked... I have looked and looked and looked myself... and it was pretty frustrating. I'm guessing it will come up again. I have a feeling the defense is trying to pinpoint "when" it actually rained in Victorville that day, or in that 24 hour period on Feb 6th.

 

[mrjitty]

The idea about the digger is pretty fascinating.

It would be such a gamechanger to the understanding of these murders if we go with @Tortoise 's view and he dug these holes in advance.

@bessie

I wonder if this theory is ruled out by the evidence at trial now?

The digger in the photo looks like a tracked vehicle - so even in the spread is correct from an aerial photo, the tread will be all wrong.

What i do find more interesting, is what if the holes were dug in advance.

So we get two sets of prints not because of two body runs, but because the killer visited the site twice before hand.

I know from other cases, that the killer will usually have selected and scoped out the dumping ground carefully.

 

[Tortoise]

I was going to go back and get the transcript for this but see you covered it.

It was Chase himself who claimed the 65%

I think, looking at the spreadsheet for 2009/10, he stopped getting 65% after August 2009.

No jobs added for September '09. October 2009 is when the jobs start being split between Merritt and Metro and he gets less.

screen grab 1 - column headings
screen grab 2 - jobs split Merritt/Metro



JMO

 

[bessie]

For me a major issue with the defence case is the staging

Not the staging of the house specifically - but the hiding of the bodies.

This was not merely about forensics - it appeared a deliberate attempt to make it look like the McStays "went away" (a common theme in low end homicides)

So if DKs alibi was that he was in Hawaii - why did he need the McStays to "go away"?

That's a good point. If we proceed on the notion that the crime was staged to appear as a voluntary departure, presumably to buy more time for the perpetrator, then we have to ask why DK would blow his cover by setting off the first alarms. On the other hand, I get the impression he's creative, impetuous and arrogant. It could be argued that once he'd set up the plot, he was anxious to see it put into motion.

 

[Karinna]

Karinna, I listened to the testimony, she was recalled a few weeks ago, she was given a copy of her interview with Hanke in 2014. She told him that Joey would be adding to Chase and that he would still have Chase as a welder.

I just listened to
McStay Trial Day 31 Part 1 Susan Blake Called by Defense 03/18/19
Starts off with the defense attorney asking her about JM and the deal with DK and phasing him out, and how that was almost done.
Then DT goes on to ask SB about Joey speaking with his mother about if she knew of other welders.
JM was getting rid of Merritt and wanted other welders by December 2009.
But SB testified that Joseph definitely wanted to get rid of CM. Try listening from the 8.oo minute mark of the video.
Lots of objections in this testimony as well.

 

[mrjitty]

I think, looking at the spreadsheet for 2009/10, he stopped getting 65% after August 2009.

No jobs added for September '09. October 2009 is when the jobs start being split between Merritt and Metro and he gets less.

screen grab 1 - column headings
screen grab 2 - jobs split Merritt/Metro

View attachment 180627 View attachment 180628

JMO

I've been trying to think about this more as someone who is involved in production and less as a crime case - as to what Joey might have been thinking in early 2010

IMO the big new thing from his perspective, is that the addition of MSM to the mix showed him the actual costs of fabrication for the first time

This what i mean about demystification and margin - once you start unpicking these things, it becomes hard for a partner to maintain any fat

Which is of course we never allow clients to see inside the black box

Obviously CM is supposedly still involved on design and production management, plus post fabrication

But why not just try to hire a young industrial designer who can do physical plans, brief the fabricator, and manage QA and delivery? If you are managing 4 or 5 projects per month - you can easily fund that, and get a direct grip on production.

At this point in the process you need something that will scale, and I think it would have been obvious to Joey that operations was a great place to squeeze margins back on to his side of the ledger, as well as preparing to scale.

ETA - I think until this point, Joey had enjoyed not having to bother about all this aspect. He doesn't really strike me as the kind of guy who wanted to hang out at MSM. So basically he was paying Chase for this luxury.

 

[missy1974]

I just listened to
McStay Trial Day 31 Part 1 Susan Blake Called by Defense 03/18/19
Starts off with the defense attorney asking her about JM and the deal with DK and phasing him out, and how that was almost done.
Then DT goes on to ask SB about Joey speaking with his mother about if she knew of other welders.
JM was getting rid of Merritt and wanted other welders by December 2009.
But SB testified that Joseph definitely wanted to get rid of CM. Try listening from the 8.oo minute mark of the video.
Lots of objections in this testimony as well.

But that's not what she told Hanke in her interview in 2014, right? She was shown her interview to refresh her recollection.

 

[mrjitty]

That's a good point. If we proceed on the notion that the crime was staged to appear as a voluntary departure, presumably to buy more time for the perpetrator, then we have to ask why DK would blow his cover by setting off the first alarms. On the other hand, I get the impression he's creative, impetuous and arrogant. It could be argued that once he'd set up the plot, he was anxious to see it put into motion.

I guess I mean why not just murder them in the house and leave them there to be found and someone else blamed while he is in Hawaii?

He doesn't need to do a double staging?

 

[Karinna]

But that's not what she told Hanke in her interview in 2014, right? She was shown her interview to refresh her recollection.

SB said it was a misunderstanding what she told Hanke and denied the statement was correct, and said that JM definitely wanted rid of Merritt.

 

[mrjitty]

SB said it was a misunderstanding what she told Hanke and denied the statement was correct, and said that JM definitely wanted rid of Merritt.

Awkward.

But it makes sense from a business perspective. He was too expensive.

 

[mrjitty]

I just listened to
McStay Trial Day 31 Part 1 Susan Blake Called by Defense 03/18/19
Starts off with the defense attorney asking her about JM and the deal with DK and phasing him out, and how that was almost done.
Then DT goes on to ask SB about Joey speaking with his mother about if she knew of other welders.
JM was getting rid of Merritt and wanted other welders by December 2009.
But SB testified that Joseph definitely wanted to get rid of CM. Try listening from the 8.oo minute mark of the video.
Lots of objections in this testimony as well.

it's so annoying that we can't hear the Judge properly in these exchanges

But it was interesting Maline got his head ripped off by the Judge there

 

[bessie]

I've been trying to think about this more as someone who is involved in production and less as a crime case - as to what Joey might have been thinking in early 2010

IMO the big new thing from his perspective, is that the addition of MSM to the mix showed him the actual costs of fabrication for the first time

This what i mean about demystification and margin - once you start unpicking these things, it becomes hard for a partner to maintain any fat

Which is of course we never allow clients to see inside the black box

Obviously CM is supposedly still involved on design and production management, plus post fabrication

But why not just try to hire a young industrial designer who can do physical plans, brief the fabricator, and manage QA and delivery? If you are managing 4 or 5 projects per month - you can easily fund that, and get a direct grip on production.

At this point in the process you need something that will scale, and I think it would have been obvious to Joey that operations was a great place to squeeze margins back on to his side of the ledger, as well as preparing to scale.

ETA - I think until this point, Joey had enjoyed not having to bother about all this aspect. He doesn't really strike me as the kind of guy who wanted to hang out at MSM. So basically he was paying Chase for this luxury.

Yes, yes, and yes. From an entrepreneurial standpoint, I'd say that your assessment is spot on. I agree that JM was picking up the reins, and coming into his own as a mature and seasoned business owner with his eyes opening wide. (So damn sad!) And that process involved implementing changes that likely were tough, but necessary. I'd go so far as to say he was conflicted in some of his decisions, which contributed to his anxiety and physical ailments. And in my humble opinion, CM was aware that he ultimately would suffer a negative impact, and thus felt threatened. MOO, JMO, IMHO To add, the same could be said for DK. Hmm...

 

[bessie]

I guess I mean why not just murder them in the house and leave them there to be found and someone else blamed while he is in Hawaii?

He doesn't need to do a double staging?

Sure, the smart thing to do would be to wait it out, and pretend to be clueless. But, if one goes with the DKDI theory, he might've been foiled by his own childish impatience. He certainly would not be the first killer to be brought down by his own stupidity. Think of killers who return to a crime scene amid an investigation, or covertly feed clues to LE or the media, because in their minds their crimes are so brilliant that they want the world to know. I don't, however, buy the DK did it theory.

ETA: I realize now that you're referring to the burial. That would go to buying time, and prolonging the mystery, until the anticipation got the better of him.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I missed the time the witness or defense stated the accident occurred. I'm not sure what relevance it plays as if we examine the timeline, we don't know when Chase may have drove that corridor. His phone was off or not available.

Yeah, I’m not sure I get the relevance either. The officer testified he arrived at 9AM.

 

[asyousay]

Dan’s phone didn’t ping around the burial site but Chase’s certainly did.

That’s one hell of a coincidence!!

 

[InspectorGadget]

Dan’s phone didn’t ping around the burial site but Chase’s certainly did.

That’s one hell of a coincidence!!

What time did chase´s phone ping at the gravesite?

 

[asyousay]

What time did chase´s phone ping at the gravesite?

It was the 6th February and morning time around 11am I believe?

Somebody who keeps track of this can probably give you the exact time.

 

[Tortoise]

But IF Joey did find out about those cheques, she didn't know about it... because nobody seems to know if he knew, so there was no other conversation contradicting the statement that he was adding to and keeping Chase as a welder. So there should be no confusion here IMO

Not nobody - In Mike's last phone conversation with Joey he told Mike that money was missing from his account and he was going frantic about it.

timestamp 32:26

 

[mrjitty]

Not nobody - In Mike's last phone conversation with Joey he told Mike that money was missing from his account and he was going frantic about it.

I really hope the Prosecution closing doesn't miss off any of this key stuff

 

[mrjitty]

SB said it was a misunderstanding what she told Hanke and denied the statement was correct, and said that JM definitely wanted rid of Merritt.

It's really a shame we don't have the exhibits to compare with the testimony as Maline was obviously trying to jam her up there but the Judge wouldn't allow it and she was allowed to read back all her statement and not just respond to the narrow couple of lines he picked.

It was interesting to listen back some of it to refresh - especially her direct and how she got milked by Chase for $$

Overall though the sound quality makes it a real chore. I can hardly understand the judge