CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

[mrjitty]

I think Merritt pooed his pants when he phoned MSM on the day of his interview with DuGal and discovered they'd held onto the cheques because they didn't look right.

Shame San Diego were so lax with their investigation - especially knowing they were dealing with a felon and being told by the bank's own fraud examiner the signatures on the cheques were inconsistent, including the cheque on the 2nd and Joey's phone calls to the bank which they had on his phone records.

IMO

Yeah - so lame.

 

[mrjitty]

The other thing is we've seen no proof that Joey had ever emailed him the figures before. The inclusion of the off ledger debts makes me think it was outside the normal course of their dealings.

Another thought on this - why was Chase 15K and change down?

It is now easy to understand how that happened under the 65% deal. As Joey paid suppliers on account of Chase, or paid Chase fees, the debt increased. As Joey credited project payments to Chase, the debt decreased or became a credit. Anything in the range -20K to +20K would be normal. And every project ultimately zeroed out.

However under the 15% deal fully 50% (65-15=50) of the project costs have been taken off Chase and switched to the fabricator MSM.

Presumably then, Chase should have few if any hard costs coming out of his meagre 15% end that Joey would have to pay on account.

So shouldn't cash payments to Chase have largely been zeroed out against his project splits Joe owed him? Why was he so far behind the game? it's so hard to tell from the trial projector of the exhibits - but this part didn't really make complete sense to me.

I can only think Joe had made payments to him in advance of projects, or for some reason, Joe had not yet credited project fees to Chase

Chase himself seemed to think he needed the 26K on the next two jobs to reduce the balance from -15K to a credit of +11K - but why when projects should zero out?

Has Forensic Guy pulled a fast one here?

 

[Tortoise]

Defense strategy now becoming clear to me.

They set out to show (in opening statements) that San Bernardino didn't investigate because they wanted Merritt.

Now it's coming to the close of their case and they realise that they haven't established this in any of their cross-examinations of SB law enforcement. So time to get the boys back and look for something against each of them.

That's why they couldn't tell them exactly what they were being called back for when the prosecution asked and the judge asked Maline to give them an indication so they could prepare.

That's why Maline was so ill-prepared for direct examination and had to ask for time because he'd only just received Hanke's notebook. He couldn't tell Hanke what to prepare for, and hinted it might have been an interview of Jarvis.

So we had Steers somehow intentionally manipulating photographs of the Mitchley porch and awning - at least I think that was the purpose of Maline calling him, it never did become clear before it fizzled out. And then he tried it on that Hanke saw Agent Boles cell phone maps before interviewing San Ysidro parking lot attendants, presumably to manipulate their evidence, but unfortunately for Maline it transpired that Hanke saw the cell phone maps about a month after he went to San Ysidro.

What a shambles. The defense are rooting through police pocket books looking for evidence while the witnesses are waiting in court. This isn't because McGee is off sick, it's because they didn't prepare evidence of what they said in opening speeches before trial started. Looking for typos in reports. And then whinging that the jurors might blame him.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Another thought on this - why was Chase 15K and change down?

It is now easy to understand how that happened under the 65% deal. As Joey paid suppliers on account of Chase, or paid Chase fees, the debt increased. As Joey credited project payments to Chase, the debt decreased or became a credit. Anything in the range -20K to +20K would be normal. And every project ultimately zeroed out.

However under the 15% deal fully 50% (65-15=50) of the project costs have been taken off Chase and switched to the fabricator MSM.

Presumably then, Chase should have few if any hard costs coming out of his meagre 15% end that Joey would have to pay on account.

So shouldn't cash payments to Chase have largely been zeroed out against his project splits Joe owed him? Why was he so far behind the game? it's so hard to tell from the trial projector of the exhibits - but this part didn't really make complete sense to me.

I can only think Joe had made payments to him in advance of projects, or for some reason, Joe had not yet credited project fees to Chase

Chase himself seemed to think he needed the 26K on the next two jobs to reduce the balance from -15K to a credit of +11K - but why when projects should zero out?

Has Forensic Guy pulled a fast one here?

I typed out a similar post earlier and then deleted it because I thought I must've missed something that was patently clear.

 

[MrsPC]

Totally agree with your posts Tortoise. The defense is just grasping at straws right now....or in other words - throw it on the wall & see if it sticks.

 

[Force Ten]

What difference does it make where DK was when he stole money from the PayPal account? You're the one that said such activity is evidence of murder. When it comes to stealing JM's money CM wasn't any more complicit than DK, so, they both must be subjected to the same scrutiny. Unless of course the agenda being pursued is something other than justice.

Yes of course both should have the same scrutiny. But there is much more apparent and obvious inclusion for Merritt to have involvement than Kavanaugh. The backdating the checks - and deleting - sealed Merritt's fate. There's no other way around it.

 

[asyousay]

Yes it’s so simple when you get to the bare bones of it. IMO

Only a person who knew the family were dead would backdate a cheque from the 5th to the 4th.

 

[mrjitty]

I typed out a similar post earlier and then deleted it because I thought I must've missed something that was patently clear.

Yes - I have to watch the testimony again.

One of the issues, is, the first time you see it you watch for understanding. But the next time I watch - it will be to analyse what he is not saying or glossing over.

There was a lot of back and forth about how the 2009 wasn't closed yet, and the 2010 jobs don't show in the 2009 year

But the 2009 year should zero out, overall.

So I am not really sure how he got down 15K unless Joey advanced him a bunch of money in late 2009?

Forensic dude explained why it happens generally - but didn't bother to focus specifically on why it had happened by Feb 2010

 

[Karinna]

Yes of course both should have the same scrutiny. But there is much more apparent and obvious inclusion for Merritt to have involvement than Kavanaugh. The backdating the checks - and deleting - sealed Merritt's fate. There's no other way around it.

Exactly, and in Merritt's own words to LE
(quote)
“Dan’s in Hawaii?” asked Detective DuGal.
“Dan’s flying here today,” said Merritt.
“But you’re sure he’s in Hawaii?” asked DuGal. “How long has he been in Hawaii?”
“As long as I’ve known Joseph, as far as I know,” said Merritt.
“So, two-and-a-half years?” asked DuGal.
“I think so,” said Merritt. “I’ve never known him to not be in Hawaii. I’ve never met Dan.”
The defense attorney’s theory is that Kavanaugh killed Joseph McStay and his family because he was embittered over Joseph McStay cutting him out of the Earth Inspired Products operation and its money flow.
Merritt told DuGal and Fiske he had talked to Kavanaugh directly “only over the last week. I never talked to him before this happened to Joseph. I had never talked to Dan, ever. I’ve known of his existence. I knew his role in Joseph’s business. I knew Joseph had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part in the business. I think that was the number. I’m not sure about that. But I know that he had only $2,000 left to pay and Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website instead of them being partners because up until he paid him off he was going to be his partner. I know that. We talked about that all the time.

 

[missingm]

So would the bank have called Joey about the 2 Feb cheque?

Chase would know about this because he had no bank account for months

More than likely when Joey balanced his accounts on the 3rd or 4th he noticed there were checks that he didn't write. I believe he called the bank on the 4th, not the other way around.

 

[smr]

Huge difference between the two men.

Location, location, location, and times/dates they transpired.

Imo

Huge difference between the two men.

Threat, threat, threat. DK made threat to JM.

 

[la2cabo]

Exactly, and in Merritt's own words to LE
(quote)
“Dan’s in Hawaii?” asked Detective DuGal.
“Dan’s flying here today,” said Merritt.
“But you’re sure he’s in Hawaii?” asked DuGal. “How long has he been in Hawaii?”
“As long as I’ve known Joseph, as far as I know,” said Merritt.
“So, two-and-a-half years?” asked DuGal.
“I think so,” said Merritt. “I’ve never known him to not be in Hawaii. I’ve never met Dan.”
The defense attorney’s theory is that Kavanaugh killed Joseph McStay and his family because he was embittered over Joseph McStay cutting him out of the Earth Inspired Products operation and its money flow.
Merritt told DuGal and Fiske he had talked to Kavanaugh directly “only over the last week. I never talked to him before this happened to Joseph. I had never talked to Dan, ever. I’ve known of his existence. I knew his role in Joseph’s business. I knew Joseph had almost paid him off and I think he was paying him $50,000 for his part in the business. I think that was the number. I’m not sure about that. But I know that he had only $2,000 left to pay and Joseph was going to then own Earth Inspired Products and just pay him to run the website instead of them being partners because up until he paid him off he was going to be his partner. I know that. We talked about that all the time.

Well isn't that interesting. I didn't realize that Merritt thought DK lived in HI.

 

[missingm]

Yes of course both should have the same scrutiny. But there is much more apparent and obvious inclusion for Merritt to have involvement than Kavanaugh. The backdating the checks - and deleting - sealed Merritt's fate. There's no other way around it.

Is there even any solid case to throw shade at DK at all? He was given control over the business accounts by Joey's family. So even though he moved money around is there any evidence that he did it for nefarious purposes?

 

[la2cabo]

If people view each item of evidence individually rather than all of it as a whole they may never comprehend why it's so easy for many of us to clearly and easily believe in Merritt's guilt. The case as a whole is rather simplistic and easy to understand. But that's my opinion so...

 

[la2cabo]

Is there even any solid case to throw shade at DK at all? He was given control over the business accounts by Joey's family. So even though he moved money around is there any evidence that he did it for nefarious purposes?

To me it looks like a lot of money went through DK's hands and I'm not so sure it can all be accounted for as running Joey's business.

 

[la2cabo]

Huge difference between the two men.

Threat, threat, threat. DK made threat to JM.

You do know it wasn't a physical threat and was a year prior the family missing?

 

[asyousay]

Huge difference between the two men.

Threat, threat, threat. DK made threat to JM.

Which Joey obviously forgave him for as a year later still working together.

 

[la2cabo]

I really wish the state could introduce evidence regarding all the personal funds Joey fronted to Merritt, i.e. rent, replacing Merritt's "stolen" tools on a couple of occasions, living expenses while Merritt was incarcerated numerous times, etc. Surely there are witnesses to all of these debts?

 

[shannon.spike.1]

Defense strategy now becoming clear to me.

They set out to show (in opening statements) that San Bernardino didn't investigate because they wanted Merritt.

Now it's coming to the close of their case and they realise that they haven't established this in any of their cross-examinations of SB law enforcement. So time to get the boys back and look for something against each of them.

That's why they couldn't tell them exactly what they were being called back for when the prosecution asked and the judge asked Maline to give them an indication so they could prepare.

That's why Maline was so ill-prepared for direct examination and had to ask for time because he'd only just received Hanke's notebook. He couldn't tell Hanke what to prepare for, and hinted it might have been an interview of Jarvis.

So we had Steers somehow intentionally manipulating photographs of the Mitchley porch and awning - at least I think that was the purpose of Maline calling him, it never did become clear before it fizzled out. And then he tried it on that Hanke saw Agent Boles cell phone maps before interviewing San Ysidro parking lot attendants, presumably to manipulate their evidence, but unfortunately for Maline it transpired that Hanke saw the cell phone maps about a month after he went to San Ysidro.

What a shambles. The defense are rooting through police pocket books looking for evidence while the witnesses are waiting in court. This isn't because McGee is off sick, it's because they didn't prepare evidence of what they said in opening speeches before trial started. Looking for typos in reports. And then whinging that the jurors might blame him.

IMO

I think you are spot on. The DT is grasping at straws and employing delay tactics.

 

[Karinna]

If people view each item of evidence individually rather than all of it as a whole they may never comprehend why it's so easy for many of us to clearly and easily believe in Merritt's guilt. The case as a whole is rather simplistic and easy to understand. But that's my opinion so...

Yes i totally agree, it isn't a complex case.