CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Seattle1]

Wasn’t it Jonathan who researched Hites Cove trail on his phone the day before their hike? They also reportedly went hiking every weekend, and it appears neither posted about their weekend hiking adventures on their socials/AllTrails accounts.

Yes, confirming JG researched Hites Cove.

Sequence of Events –

8/14/2021 – John Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via phone app

8/15/2021 7:45 am – Witness sees Gerrish/Chung family traveling towards the trail head in their vehicle

[..]

Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[wary]

How do we know this (Bold print)?

‘Hiking’ is a mistake; it should be ‘driving.’

Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[Deleted member 292879]

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt: they did leave at 7:45am. It’s possible they were actually worried about the heat (maybe one more than the other?) and didn’t want to spend more than 90 mins to 2 hours out there. And maybe they didn’t. Maybe it was bad enough by 10am.

Agree with the comments about LE possibly being in over their heads (the email I got back from the detective about the mines suggested they had not even looked at JG’s AllTrails or that they knew about the three mines on the loop—and that was a week into the investigation).

Also agree that autopsy signs maybe pointed to heatstroke but they want to do their due diligence about possible water contamination from algae or pesticides or what have you.

Lastly, I’m inclined to believe the locals <modsnip> that there are grow ops around there that potentially contaminate the Merced. Audubon did a piece awhile back <modsnip> about illegal pesticides being brought in from Mexico to use specifically on cannabis. Still, I feel the water levels would have to be low and the contamination very concentrated (and that they’d have to drink it, not just bathe in it). But what do I know! MOO.

 

[Countem]

Those of you who are playing with the mine theme. … What do you think of the possibility they were in that canyon to scope out a location to do a mining claim? Or maybe they even had one already?

Highly unlikely. If the family were actively seeking a mining claim (or had talked about doing so in the past), they would have likely told their family or friends, who would have reported that information to law enforcement, who, in turn, would likely have disclosed such a motivation for them being in the area rather than disclosing a hiking motivation. MOO.

 

[GatorFL]

@GatorFL, seems some in this discussion think the 8 yo pup ignited whatever happened to this family, for whatever reason. From your post, do you think the family got as far as the Merced river, dog took a dip or sip or both, and as they continued - perhaps intending to do the full loop - the dog became seriously ill. The fastest route back to the truck, I think, would be retreat up the LS trail. Ergo (someone used that earlier!) do you think the dog died first after they valiantly tried to save him?

Based on the available information it is hard to have an opinion one way or another.

It would be exceedingly rare for a toxin to exist in the creek water that would be concentrated enough to suddenly kill 2 adults, a baby and a dog.

 

[GatorFL]

1. No phone on Ellen - wanted to travel light plus they probably knew there wouldn't be good cell coverage in the canyon so why carry the extra weight? One phone between the two would suffice.
2. The Gobi desert isn't particularly scenic either and neither is Burning man. Seems like this family loved extreme hikes in the heat.
3. Dog was physically attached to the dad (leashed) per several reports and hence couldn't wander.
4. Dad was under severe heat exhaustion so couldn't hold baby while he tried to rest and cool off.
5. See #2.
6. They didn't know anyone in the area since they were new. And they didn't think this was a 'dangerous' hike by any means. It was just a regular daytrip in their mind.
7. Kreycik carried no water. At least these people carried a 3 liter camelback. As for some left, they were probably rationing the last few drops when they passed out.
8. She was probably leaving for help in a state of panic and literal meltdown.
9. New to his workplace. Tech companies are more "woke" and liberal and like to give people their privacy so won't raise the alarm just because someone didn't show up to work in the morning. They probably waited until later that day to see if he responded to their efforts to reach him.

BBM: Nobody knows how big the water bladder was that they carried. We're speculating 3L.

 

[Megnut]

Proving what happened may be a challenge (nonspecific findings) but I don't think this is hard. Two dependents, either in jeopardy creates a cascade. Two adults with an emotional investment --

For all we know, LE tracked their footprints the whole way (which would tell the story if the dog wandered away, and to water) or the family went there to scout it out, for a full trek on a future day, and something went awry.

If the dog was distressed first, it stands to reason that dad would carry her. Which suggests that mom took the baby. Now both adults are heavily weighted. Dad makes it only so far.... now mom is pleading... to keep going... only he can't... time continues to tick... imagine if you are her, your family needs help but how do you leave them? She sets the baby down, in what little shade dad provides, and tries to sprint -- all JMO

The scene, as LE found it had to look peculiar, surreal -- but IMO that they were relatively all together makes sense to me. No one wanted to leave anyone, anydog, behind.

I wish we could give them that morning back -- to choose a different adventure. And a lifetime of them.

JMO

 

[jonjon747]

Earlier this year I hiked a small mountain here in NY called "Elephant Head", and I can tell you that it was not an elephant's head. Tuesday I went swimming at Buttermilk Falls -- just water, no buttermilk at all. A woman I work with just got back from riding a motorcycle over Back of the Dragon in VA, and would you believe that she didn't see one dragon?

Sometimes a name is just a name.

Sometimes it is, sometimes not.
Some names of places go a very long way back.
Like Yosemite came from a word meaning "those who kill".
IDK how or where the devil's gulch got the name from but I wouldn't be surprised if it came from one of native American or Indian folklores.

 

[RickshawFan]

1. No phone on Ellen - wanted to travel light plus they probably knew there wouldn't be good cell coverage in the canyon so why carry the extra weight? One phone between the two would suffice.
2. The Gobi desert isn't particularly scenic either and neither is Burning man. Seems like this family loved extreme hikes in the heat.
3. Dog was physically attached to the dad (leashed) per several reports and hence couldn't wander.
4. Dad was under severe heat exhaustion so couldn't hold baby while he tried to rest and cool off.
5. See #2.
6. They didn't know anyone in the area since they were new. And they didn't think this was a 'dangerous' hike by any means. It was just a regular daytrip in their mind.
7. Kreycik carried no water. At least these people carried a 3 liter camelback. As for some left, they were probably rationing the last few drops when they passed out.
8. She was probably leaving for help in a state of panic and literal meltdown.
9. New to his workplace. Tech companies are more "woke" and liberal and like to give people their privacy so won't raise the alarm just because someone didn't show up to work in the morning. They probably waited until later that day to see if he responded to their efforts to reach him.

I’m not sure I get your point about maybe an employer being too “woke” or “liberal” to be concerned about an employee’s welfare.
Would you mind providing sources for #4?
Regarding #1, since LE seemed thwarted at finding out there was no cell or satellite service in the canyon, I would venture to bet it wasn’t general knowledge. I’m not sure why it would be. I can’t recall seeing cell info on the dirt road leg of the hike.
Smartphones have compasses, maps, GPS, on them, so they would be useful regardless of coverage. IME Many people are attached to their phones these days like an umbilical cord, even in situations where they aren’t obviously (to me, anyway) useful.

 

[GatorFL]

I’m not sure I get your point about maybe an employer being too “woke” or “liberal” to be concerned about an employee’s welfare.
Would you mind providing sources for #4?
Regarding #1, since LE seemed thwarted at finding out there was no cell or satellite service in the canyon, I would venture to bet it wasn’t general knowledge. I’m not sure why it would be. I can’t recall seeing cell info on the dirt road leg of the hike.
Smartphones have compasses, maps, GPS, on them, so they would be useful regardless of coverage. IME Many people are attached to their phones these days like an umbilical cord, even in situations where they aren’t obviously (to me, anyway) useful.

BBM: I wonder if the phone would be useful in tracking their movements, even though no cell service. I usually turn my iWatch activity tracker on when I hike....#steps and elevation change could verify their path.

 

[jonjon747]

Just catching up on today’s discussion. Another thing I noticed from photos on IG in which Ellen is tagged: a couple of hikes to swimming holes.

Now I’m wondering if the water was actually the main draw for the itinerary: the pictures of the water at the bottom of Savage-Lundy on AllTrails are lovely. Let’s assume they were ignorant of the algae bloom notice and thought: this is the closest spot to our house to go cool off. 3 mi (or less?) down to Savage-Lundy and back up, 6 total, with a cool swim in the middle to make the hike up more tolerable. Back in time for baby’s morning nap.

All the points today about them being adventure tourists sadly seem accurate to me. In Gobi it looks like they were wearing Adidas street shoes or similar. I hate to say those details matter but…they do.

I'm not too sure that would've been the case.
Were there any selfies, sceneries or family photos taken that day?
There were no report of such photos found in the father's phone so for how long or how far were they really hiking?
Everything seems only a speculation at this point because there were no witnesses or any trace of whereabouts since the early morning.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

I'm not too sure that would've been the case.
Were there any selfies, sceneries or family photos taken that day?
There were no report of such photos found in the father's phone so for how long or how far were they really hiking?
Everything seems only a speculation at this point because there were no witnesses or any trace of whereabouts since the early morning.

True, but given the temps it’s reasonable they might have gone down there just for the water.

And nothing would have been posted to social media because there was no service on the trail. I don’t think LE would/will release info about photos found on the phone until they have a fuller picture to share with the public.

 

[Dee Deforest]

I'm really interested in what they find with the dog? Even if it was heat, and they all succumbed within a few hours.. Isn't that strange? They even had water on them? Makes no sense.

 

[whirrledpeas]

I went through both threads thus far and compiled a summary of knowns and unknowns in case it helps any folks new to the case. I tend to do this when I am researching after long periods of times to not lose anything. It is also a good way to separate what we know to be 100% true from things we could likely conclude, but have no proof of. Sources are from LE in this article unless otherwise noted below.

KNOWNS

• Family (adult male, adult female, infant and family dog) spotted by witness heading towards trail at 7:45 a.m. on 8/15/2021; reported missing 8/16 at 11 p.m.; found at approximately 11 a.m. on 8/17 approx. 1.5 miles away from their car
• Jonathan, baby and family dog were found together; Ellen was found approximately 30 yards away
• Cause of death was NOT blunt-force trauma, gunshot or any other type of weapon consistent with trauma; cause of death was NOT related to chemicals in the area (CO, CO2, etc); confirmed by LE
• Family had at least one water source with them
• Family had at least one phone with them
• There was no cell service where their bodies were found
• Temperatures for the day from 11 a.m. to approximately 6 p.m. ranged from 103-109 degrees, give or take
• Adults were fairly experienced hikers, though cannot confirm moderate or expert level; adult male (Jonathan) researched this hiking area leading up to hike and likely to have hiked at least a part of this trail in the past, per his AllTrails account
• Toxic algae bloom is currently present in and around this area

UNKNOWNS

• How much and in what direction the family was hiking (LE says it is likely they were completing the loop, but they have not confirmed this 100%
• Time of death for each member in the group (this is easy to identify by the on-site medical examiner, but they may be waiting to release it with full report); dog is the exception here
• We do not know if Ellen was walking ahead of the others or if they were ahead of her (depending on direction; speculation from LE suggests she was ahead of others on way to car, but not definitive)
• Additional water sources used (either from home or on the hike)
• Contents and/or gear brought with them
• How long the family was hiking before perishing

There are loads more but I thought these were the biggest points to collect - happy to add onto this if needed. Hope this helps!

 

[DCA58]

RSBM
Thank you, @nathan.hogan21. Nothing like a swift kick in the behind!

I appreciate so much what you said. As I stated up thread, my mind can simulate a simple scenario of a short jaunt and then an unfortunate turn of events resulting in everyone dying, likely from heat stroke. But unlike our friend Occom, I do not think the answer is that simple. Hence, IMO, the apparent delay of LE to release interim information about autopsy, etc.

I explored or at least inferred up thread, the possibility of murder-suicide (less so, suicide pact as I discussed up thread) and today, introduced the idea of accidental overdose by the parents. I am sadly starting to suspect, like others here, that JG and EC died first and their beloveds succumbed to heat stroke later. The simpler the benign scenario becomes in the face of all the data we have so far, the more compelling something like murder suicide or accidental overdose starts to make sense.

The key reality check for me is people and families all over the world can hide deep and painful secrets.

I agree!

 

[Smokingun]

Perhaps they were out of their depth a bit? They do seem kind of a mess. That particular unit might not have a lot of experience with missing hikers and interacting with SAR, especially in that heat. I know LE usually coordinates the SAR teams and does the pressers, but maybe they might have used an SAR spokesperson to help them frame the statements? We seem to have ended up with a lot of speculation.
They also sound truly flummoxed about a cause. They might be just a bit freaked out?

JMO- I think they want to fully figure out the exact sequence of events before they start giving tidbits of info. It’s a high profile case at this point. How completely unheard of for this to happen, so they want to be thorough and accurate with answers for not only the family and friends, but for the community, etc. The family is known around town and they’re feeling the loss, too. LE up in our hills, are well versed in SAR, unfortunately. Even so, they knew it was above the customary situation, and immediately brought in the DOJ (same day) as mentioned in the sheriff’s first press release, which was a good move, considering the circumstances.

 

[RedHaus]

Since no one has mentioned this yet, my sleuthing has revealed, IMO, JG was a talented musician in the sphere of wave music - producing synthesized music and appearing to play at Burning Man and elsewhere in the world, perhaps. But JG appears to have not posted new music on SoundCloud for 2-3 years and I wonder why.
jongerrish

 

[Mamamerced]

Since no one has mentioned this yet, my sleuthing has revealed, IMO, JG was a talented musician in the sphere of wave music - producing synthesized music and appearing to play at Burning Man and elsewhere in the world, perhaps. But JG appears to have not posted new music on SoundCloud for 2-3 years and I wonder why.
jongerrish

Didn't they move to the Mariposa area in 2018? Then the pandemic/isolation. Hmmmmm.

 

[wary]

Based on the available information it is hard to have an opinion one way or another.

It would be exceedingly rare for a toxin to exist in the creek water that would be concentrated enough to suddenly kill 2 adults, a baby and a dog.

I agree. However, if it slowed the two adults down enough that the heat had a chance to incapacitate them, that’s all that would have been needed. The dog and baby would die—and not necessarily suddenly.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I'm really interested in what they find with the dog? Even if it was heat, and they all succumbed within a few hours.. Isn't that strange? They even had water on them? Makes no sense.

Heat stroke kills rapidly and temps were 109 that day on the trail and there was no shade. The dog was older and had a double coat, he and the baby would be particularly vulnerable to heat. The treatment for heat stroke is focused on rapidly cooling the core temp, it is not the same as dehydration. They had a small amount of water left per LE so may have been conserving, regardless, the human and canine body is not designed for such high heat. The body literally melts from inside and the death rate is high as is the rate for brain damage in those lucky enough to survive. Another factor may have been the poor air quality due to fires, another stress on the body in high heat and with steep trails.

How heat stroke kills | CNN