CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021

[OldProtozoan]

Good thought, also nothing has been mentioned about cell phones, were they found with them on the trail? Had they taken pictures on the hike, tried to call out, send a text message? That might sound strange, but if one of them was in distress and the others started failing I could see trying to leave a clue even though there was no signal. But if overtaken quickly, I guess there would be no time or clarity of thinking.

The area has no signal. Jon had a cellphone in his pocket. Authorities have not said what, if anything, they were able to learn from the phones.

Does anyone know how/why the deputy in the sheriff’s office would know that they’d recently purchased a house near the trail? That detail is odd to me. He had a hunch and went up to the trail that night. But how did he know about the house?

Not surprising that people would volunteer all sorts of details to police not knowing what details will turn out to be important. The baby-sitter was the first to report. Kudos to the policeman that located the vehicle at 11pm that night on a hunch.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Well we know they were found on the trail about 1 1/2 miles from their car. And LE has said they think they were returning to their car. But we don’t know how long they had been hiking. Had they been hiking all day and just didn’t make it quite back? Or did they just get 1 1/2 miles into the hike and then something happened? We don’t even know when they started their hike. I assume LE has a better idea of that by now since they’ve said they went in the afternoon. But what time? We just don’t know.

The amount of water they had would be returning from the hike.

 

[SteveM]

A YouTuber I follow (link below, at 7:50 in) had his dog collapse from heat exhaustion and it took 30+ minutes to recover. I can imagine if this happened to the dog on the trail it would be tough to leave him/her behind and tough to carry.

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if either one was wearing a Garmin, Apple Watch or other device that monitors heart rate? That device would have a lot of data for review.

 

[Pizzalvr2003]

So unfortunately in my line of work I come across cases of animal death due to heat exposure, including several directly attributed to heat stroke. Like others have said, heat stroke can be exertional or environmental. Necropsy findings can vary depending upon which type caused the heat stroke. However what has appeared universally in my work has been significant findings in the necropsy. I suspect the dogs necropsy in this case will be quite telling and UC Davis is certainly the place for this to be examined.

Heat stroke findings in dogs may include elevated creatinine levels, low pericardial calcium levels, permanent rigidity of the body (looks like rigor mortis but doesn’t break) due to coagulation of muscle proteins, scattered petechiae on the skin (visible after shaving the dog) cerebral edema, bloody intestinal contents, liver necrosis, and many others.

I’m quite curious to see what the report says.

 

[NSamuelle]

Hey all, thanks for the informative thread and discussion. I'm a newbie here (stumbled onto this board searching for more articles/information on this case) but I wanted to add a few thoughts of mine. Though I am no longer in the field, I'm a former forensic biologist. My specialty is blood-spatter analysis, so the following points are not in my area of expertise, though my studies did moderately touch on them.

In addition to forensics, a major portion of my education in the field involved physiology. In a nutshell, this is how the human body works, its chemical functions, etc. Based on my training and the facts known at the moment about this case, there are a few things that I feel can be confidently (though not definitely) ruled out.

• CO: Bodies of those exposed to CO (carbon monoxide) will appear pink/red 96% of the time. This was not indicted by the on-site investigators. Further evidence of CO poisoning would have also been indicated at the autopsy stage by evidence of lesions in the brain and/or other organs

• Lightning Strike/Electrical Storm: Evidence would have been present at the autopsy stage; however, the more important thing to note is that the chances of three people plus the family dog being struck by lightning would be extremely, extremely unlikely - especially since Ellen's body was found approximately 30 yards away from the other three

• Heat-related death: This one is tricky, because heat strokes or heat-related deaths do not always show up in the initial autopsy and toxicology must be relied upon - especially when time of death is unavailable. How long someone survives after a heat-stroke would also affect these findings. But for three autopsies not to reveal that heat played a factor would be extremely rare

• Snake Bite: No. Not to all four.

I didn't include algae bloom in the list above because there are a lot of things that make sense about this possibility - but there are more things that do not. The parents seem to be very avid, experienced outdoor enthusiasts. They would not have used water from a possibly contaminated source, unless they were desperate. But even if they had a lapse in judgement and did, it does not explain how the baby was affected.

From a psychological standpoint, I cannot fathom any parent substituting river water for breastmilk or, if on formula, replacing bottled water with an unknown source. I am not trying to suggest that these parents were infallible or perfect, but they seem competent enough not to put dirty water into a baby bottle.

Having said all of this, there still isn't any one thing that stands out to me as a possible cause of death. The one thing I am 100% sure of is that we will have to wait on toxicology to know what happened and even there there is a chance we will not have conclusive answers. Sad, all around.

Wonderful information. Thank you! Do you know why “simple” test results like troponin and carboxyhemoglobin and barbiturate/benzo levels in blood haven’t been released? Aren’t there some toxicology results that won’t take a few weeks?

 

[Officer Dibble]

[

Hey all, thanks for the informative thread and discussion. I'm a newbie here (stumbled onto this board searching for more articles/information on this case) but I wanted to add a few thoughts of mine. Though I am no longer in the field, I'm a former forensic biologist. My specialty is blood-spatter analysis, so the following points are not in my area of expertise, though my studies did moderately touch on them.

In addition to forensics, a major portion of my education in the field involved physiology. In a nutshell, this is how the human body works, its chemical functions, etc. Based on my training and the facts known at the moment about this case, there are a few things that I feel can be confidently (though not definitely) ruled out.

• CO: Bodies of those exposed to CO (carbon monoxide) will appear pink/red 96% of the time. This was not indicted by the on-site investigators. Further evidence of CO poisoning would have also been indicated at the autopsy stage by evidence of lesions in the brain and/or other organs

• Lightning Strike/Electrical Storm: Evidence would have been present at the autopsy stage; however, the more important thing to note is that the chances of three people plus the family dog being struck by lightning would be extremely, extremely unlikely - especially since Ellen's body was found approximately 30 yards away from the other three

• Heat-related death: This one is tricky, because heat strokes or heat-related deaths do not always show up in the initial autopsy and toxicology must be relied upon - especially when time of death is unavailable. How long someone survives after a heat-stroke would also affect these findings. But for three autopsies not to reveal that heat played a factor would be extremely rare

• Snake Bite: No. Not to all four.

I didn't include algae bloom in the list above because there are a lot of things that make sense about this possibility - but there are more things that do not. The parents seem to be very avid, experienced outdoor enthusiasts. They would not have used water from a possibly contaminated source, unless they were desperate. But even if they had a lapse in judgement and did, it does not explain how the baby was affected.

From a psychological standpoint, I cannot fathom any parent substituting river water for breastmilk or, if on formula, replacing bottled water with an unknown source. I am not trying to suggest that these parents were infallible or perfect, but they seem competent enough not to put dirty water into a baby bottle.

Having said all of this, there still isn't any one thing that stands out to me as a possible cause of death. The one thing I am 100% sure of is that we will have to wait on toxicology to know what happened and even there there is a chance we will not have conclusive answers. Sad, all around.

Welcome to Websleuths. Your insights are very helpful.

 

[NSamuelle]

How long does it take to get the data from the phone(s) so we can confirm where they were and when? I think once we have this info that it should paint a clearer picture of what transpired that day. If it is true that infants that young have difficulty regulating their internal temperature, the scenario where the baby died first is definitely a possibility. I can only imagine the guilt, pain and anguish the parents would have experienced and it may impaired their ability to think clearly.

I don’t want to be gruesome but they should try to open their phones with biometrics while they can, before face or fingerprint recognition stops working. They must already know whether calls were attempted.

 

[happyday]

Considering it was reported they had little water they would more likely be returning from the hike.

Very true!

 

[Officer Dibble]

A YouTuber I follow (link below, at 7:50 in) had his dog collapse from heat exhaustion and it took 30+ minutes to recover. I can imagine if this happened to the dog on the trail it would be tough to leave him/her behind and tough to carry.

Sounds similar to how my son recovered with water being poured over him esp neck and wrists then getting him to air conditioning.

 

[Tink60]

The question of LE not naming heat stroke outright: I'm sure it's one of the suspected causes, but it would be wrong to name anything or even a suspicion at this point without evidence. The fact that they are "young" and "fit" and experienced hikers and travelers, in a way, predisposes all of us to assume they did not do something so daft as hike at mid-day in 100+ temperatures. (The same way we assumed Philip Kreycik should have known better. Even to the end, no one wanted to doubt his common sense.) So we look for more exotic answers to fit our conception of who these people were. I believe that as climate changes, these deaths will become more prevalent, and it will no longer just be old people with heat stroke. LE will see more and more of these deaths, and they will not appear so mysterious.

I agree. Most people who get a heat related illness are in pretty good shape and out running, climbing, hiking,etc. From what I’ve read regarding autopsy and heat stroke deaths, the autopsy findings can be very minimal and after other causes are ruled out, heat stroke can be suspected.

 

[annpats]

Maybe Nanny didn't work again until Monday? Not all Nannies work 7 days a week. JMO MOO.

Correct. She works Monday to Friday and it was when she turned up to work on Monday morning and no-one was home that people started to become concerned......

 

[whirrledpeas]

Wonderful information. Thank you! Do you know why “simple” test results like troponin and carboxyhemoglobin and barbiturate/benzo levels in blood haven’t been released? Aren’t there some toxicology results that won’t take a few weeks?

There are some test results that can be done quickly, but with chain of custody and potential backlog, it is reasonable that they have not yet been released. Since this is a suspicious death scenario, they may not release any initial findings until the rest of the results come in.

There are many different types of reports and sampling that take place at the time of autopsy, based on the suspected cause. For example, a common thing to test in suspected homicides is bile/contents of stomach, but they do not generally test for that in suspected suicides. They are undoubtedly testing for absolutely everything that is known that fits in the possible realm of this case though, which could be another reason no initial findings have been released.

 

[Figuring]

Anyone having trouble with the drinking algae water theory not only because they were experienced hikers who would have known better, but because there were signs posted (since July, IIRC) not to go near the water? To me that suggests even inexperienced hikers would have stayed away…

 

[Tink60]

IMO and reading what has been written- the hike and last contact was Sunday morning- they weren’t reported missing until very late Monday night as they hadn’t been to work and couldn’t be contacted. By this point the crucial golden hours (24 hours) had been and gone, so in that respect going out searching in the pitch black probably wasn’t going to make much difference, but would put search and rescue in danger themselves.

Another point I noted having whipped through the thread is the comments on heat stroke and vomiting- my young daughter many years ago suffered heat stroke, turned blue and her lung collapsed after being at a sports event at school. I’m not a bad parent, but the timeline was much longer than people here seem to appreciate- she vomited getting off the school bus, then she drank a bit and dozed for England (we thought at this point she had a virus), it was four hours later that her lips turned blue and she could no longer breathe and she was taken to hospital. There was no apparent gradual decline- one minute we assumed she had a sickness bug and she was fine just tired, four hours later within a few minutes she couldn’t breathe and her body began to shut down. It was only after the fact we found out she had been exposed to the heat all day without shade.

Too much physical challenge, in too much heat.

Even people who are California natives and are used to doing long trails in warm weather can be caught out. Poor Philip Kreycik was one recently.
This whole website is full of people like them. Weather and terrain can be deadly, even for pros and regulars.

Exactly. When I had heat stroke I was a triathlete, rock climbing, kayaking. When it hit me it hit me quickly, no time to get to safety. I had some water with me so I wasn’t dehydrated. But the physical exertion and heat got to me. I collapsed, my muscles stopped working and I basically could not walk. Even if the safety of my car was a few yards away I could not get up and walk. It was as if I was paralyzed.

 

[Figuring]

There are some test results that can be done quickly, but with chain of custody and potential backlog, it is reasonable that they have not yet been released. Since this is a suspicious death scenario, they may not release any initial findings until the rest of the results come in.

There are many different types of reports and sampling that take place at the time of autopsy, based on the suspected cause. For example, a common thing to test in suspected homicides is bile/contents of stomach, but they do not generally test for that in suspected suicides. They are undoubtedly testing for absolutely everything that is known that fits in the possible realm of this case though, which could be another reason no initial findings have been released.

I am so glad you wrote this because I keep thinking about the article that just came out ruling out mine gasses. In it, LE says toxicology will take 2-3 weeks, but this will also be a “long & tedious investigation.” Why, if toxicology can explain away anything, would the investigation be long & tedious? It has me thinking that they suspect something suspicious to arise from the toxicology that will broaden the case.

 

[whirrledpeas]

I am so glad you wrote this because I keep thinking about the article that just came out ruling out mine gasses. In it, LE says toxicology will take 2-3 weeks, but this will also be a “long & tedious investigation.” Why, if toxicology can explain away anything, would the investigation be long & tedious? It has me thinking that they suspect something suspicious to arise from the toxicology that will broaden the case.

Some toxicology results could take up to six weeks, depending on what things are tested. They might have put a rush on it.

 

[Figuring]

Some toxicology results could take up to six weeks, depending on what things are tested. They might have put a rush on it.

Thanks! What do you think though of them saying it will be long & tedious? I find it interesting that they’re not suggesting the toxicology might answer all their questions, or even say something like, “we’ll see what toxicology says & then decide on a course of action”? I’m so curious why they are saying it will probably be long & tedious?!

 

[Figuring]

Some toxicology results could take up to six weeks, depending on what things are tested. They might have put a rush on it.

so sorry I somehow double posted again everyone…

 

[Ruthbullock]

Interested to know why it took 9 hours to find the family only 1.5 miles from the car too. You’d think you would grab your best partner and get out there with a flash light stat. Could have potentially saved someone’s life!

IMO and reading what has been written- the hike and last contact was Sunday morning- they weren’t reported missing until very late Monday night as they hadn’t been to work and couldn’t be contacted. By this point the crucial golden hours (24 hours) had been and gone, so in that respect going out searching in the pitch black probably wasn’t going to make much difference, but would put search and rescue in danger themselves.

Another point I noted having whipped through the thread is the comments on heat stroke and vomiting- my young daughter many years ago suffered heat stroke, turned blue and her lung collapsed after being at a sports event at school. I’m not a bad parent, but the timeline was much longer than people here seem to appreciate- she vomited getting off the school bus, then she drank a bit and dozed for England (we thought at this point she had a virus), it was four hours later that her lips turned blue and she could no longer breathe and she was taken to hospital. There was no apparent gradual decline- one minute we assumed she had a sickness bug and she was fine just tired, four hours later within a few minutes she couldn’t breathe and her body began to shut down. It was only after the fact we found out she had been exposed to the heat all day without shade.

How terrible. And yet my two under tens abroad in May in an early European 'heatwave' only one of the succumbed to heat exaustion/stroke - we were seeing sites in a city walking around on our last day of our holiday and each carried a large bottle of water (with me having given OTT instructions about heatstroke, water consumption bla bla). He went downhill very quickly, was very disoriantated and couldn't stand up, he kept collapsing to the floor and wanted to be sick (but wasn't) and was very very dizzy and he didnt make sense. I knew what it was and it turned out he had carried his water but not drunk from it at all, despite what I'd said before we started. Myself and the other child were fine. I managed to get him to a bathroom and get water on him then get water and pour it slowly over his neck and wrists then get him to an air conditioned place where he recovered in about 2 hours time.

Thats very much the difference between heat exhaustion and heat stroke- one can be rectified, the other can’t without some serious medical input- cooling the body and water don’t help with heatstroke