GUILTY CA - Lana Clarkson, 40, fatally shot, Alhambra, 3 Feb 2003

[Ragnar]

Here's the link I got:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spector/2007/04/post.html

Hope it works.

Here's th underlying article. I don't believe registration is required to read it:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/l...a-commun-los_angeles_metro&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

[lisafremont]

Dr Herold is explaining the laws of physics as they apply to blood drops and ultimately going toward explaining why Spector had to be close to the gun in order to get the high-velocity blood spatter on his jacket.

 

[lisafremont]

Why is ktla not showing us the photos that Dr H is using to talk to the jury about the blood and what it tells her? I find this very annoying!!

 

[Ragnar]

Why is ktla not showing us the photos that Dr H is using to talk to the jury about the blood and what it tells her? I find this very annoying!!

ITA. It is much more difficult to follow her testimony without the aid of the photos!

 

[Wrinkles]

Hey Gang,

I'm sick and having to work so haven't been able to keep up. What's going on?

W

 

[lisafremont]

Recessed until Thurs. Dr Herold will still be on direct.

She talked about blood spatter in general and specifically in this case, on LC's slip dress and jacket, and about blood flow and what she could tell from the physical evidence on and around Lana's body.

She concluded that her head was originally to her right where she bled into her bag and onto the floor. That there are blood smears on her face. That her face is the only place with clotting blood and there is clotted blood on the Curity diaper plus diluted blood. The pros. will argue that Spector wiped her face with the diaper and wet it in the bathroom where it was found.

There was a smear of blood on the grip of the gun. It could be spatter that was smeared or blood transfer.

Her bag was flipped around and entangled with the arm of the chair. It was on her shoulder when she was shot, evidenced by a directional spatter of blood on it.

There was no blood spatter on her pantyhose or shoes.

She was very down-to-earth, very plain-spoken with accessible testimony and extremely credible.

I saw LKB taking notes and I expect she will do the cross. She will have her hands full.

 

[lisafremont]

Even without the conclusion of evidence, I can refute 9 of the 10 points of science that LKB raised in her OS. (The 10th is not available from archived excerpt rewatched by sunstar, her notes posted on the other website on the thread I began in order to compare/contrast OS's with actual evidence.)

10 points refuted --- well, nine anyway (Does anyone know the 10th pt?)

1) LKB: "teeth would be broken inward if gun was shoved inside her mouth."

**I say: only if her teeth were clenched. It is completely reasonable to believe that she could have been speaking or he could have forced her to with the gun in her face.
Also she completely ignores the bruises on her tongue and her wrists which are consistent with a struggle.

2) blood spatter goes 6-8 feet

** I say: Dr Herold says that blood back spatter goes 2- 4 feet. The person who will say 6-8 feet is Dr Henry Lee and he will be utterly discredited to the jury anyway.
But even without that--- the facts show that there was NO high-velocity spatter on her outstretched legs and her shoes, no h-v spatter on the rug or on the wood paneling on staircase (testimony by Renteria about Luminol testing).
Also there is the h-v blood spatter on PS's white jacket which matches the h-v blood spatter on Lana's skirt which proves that PS was standing there

3) tissue on jacket buttons

**was not there from the shooting event rather from the later purge at the coroner's office

4) GSR -- LKB: "absence" on PS

**No, not an absence, a reduction, easily explained by the 40 mins. bet. the shooting and his arrest and the oppty to wash, wipe and remove it.

5) teeth-- location of fragments proves no one was in front of her

**We know that PS went upstairs (blood on bannister, jacket found upstairs, he was seen in the upstairs by LE) and tooth fragments might have fallen off him on the way up the stairs.

6) DNA on bullets proved she loaded the gun

** DNA was found on the TIPS of the bullets and was there as a result of her being shot with the gun in her mouth.
The notion that she loaded the gun is ludicrous, as is the assertion that the gun was hers.
Gun fit in the holster with the old Hunter logo.
Bullets (Speer and Smith & Wesson +P not sold since 1983) in 3 hand guns in house prove the gun and bullets belonged to Spector.
It's ridiculous to assert she brought an unloaded .38 to the Castle with the intent to find .38 bullets there with which to kill herself is laughable.

7)"physical size disparity between LC and PS" proves he didn't shoot her
plus he had the hand tremors

** Piffle! A gun is the great equalizer. Also physical evidence shows she was seated when shot.
Hand tremors? What better way to steady his hand than sticking the muzzle in her mouth??

8)clotted blood on diaper

** Shows he wiped her face at least 3 mins after shooting her. This is cover-up not aid.

9) PS didn't try to cover up the scene. Gun not planted or wiped.

** Gun had no fingerprints on it and also smeared blood on it. It WAS wiped.
It is idiotic to maintain that the gun fell from her right hand and landed under her left leg.
There was also the very credible testimony from ADS that Spector came out of the Castle holding the gun.

10) _____

 

[browneyes]

Even without the conclusion of evidence, I can refute 9 of the 10 points of science that LKB raised in her OS. (The 10th is not available from archived excerpt rewatched by sunstar, her notes posted on the other website on the thread I began in order to compare/contrast OS's with actual evidence.)

10 points refuted --- well, nine anyway (Does anyone know the 10th pt?)

1) LKB: "teeth would be broken inward if gun was shoved inside her mouth."

**I say: only if her teeth were clenched. It is completely reasonable to believe that she could have been speaking or he could have forced her to with the gun in her face.
Also she completely ignores the bruises on her tongue and her wrists which are consistent with a struggle.

2) blood spatter goes 6-8 feet

** I say: Dr Herold says that blood back spatter goes 2- 4 feet. The person who will say 6-8 feet is Dr Henry Lee and he will be utterly discredited to the jury anyway.
But even without that--- the facts show that there was NO high-velocity spatter on her outstretched legs and her shoes, no h-v spatter on the rug or on the wood paneling on staircase (testimony by Renteria about Luminol testing).
Also there is the h-v blood spatter on PS's white jacket which matches the h-v blood spatter on Lana's skirt which proves that PS was standing there

3) tissue on jacket buttons

**was not there from the shooting event rather from the later purge at the coroner's office

4) GSR -- LKB: "absence" on PS

**No, not an absence, a reduction, easily explained by the 40 mins. bet. the shooting and his arrest and the oppty to wash, wipe and remove it.

5) teeth-- location of fragments proves no one was in front of her

**We know that PS went upstairs (blood on bannister, jacket found upstairs, he was seen in the upstairs by LE) and tooth fragments might have fallen off him on the way up the stairs.

6) DNA on bullets proved she loaded the gun

** DNA was found on the TIPS of the bullets and was there as a result of her being shot with the gun in her mouth.
The notion that she loaded the gun is ludicrous, as is the assertion that the gun was hers.
Gun fit in the holster with the old Hunter logo.
Bullets (Speer and Smith & Wesson +P not sold since 1983) in 3 hand guns in house prove the gun and bullets belonged to Spector.
It's ridiculous to assert she brought an unloaded .38 to the Castle with the intent to find .38 bullets there with which to kill herself is laughable.

7)"physical size disparity between LC and PS" proves he didn't shoot her
plus he had the hand tremors

** Piffle! A gun is the great equalizer. Also physical evidence shows she was seated when shot.
Hand tremors? What better way to steady his hand than sticking the muzzle in her mouth??

8)clotted blood on diaper

** Shows he wiped her face at least 3 mins after shooting her. This is cover-up not aid.

9) PS didn't try to cover up the scene. Gun not planted or wiped.

** Gun had no fingerprints on it and also smeared blood on it. It WAS wiped.
It is idiotic to maintain that the gun fell from her right hand and landed under her left leg.
There was also the very credible testimony from ADS that Spector came out of the Castle holding the gun.

10) _____

Great job Lisa!! I don't know the 10th question either.

I wasn't able to post here yesterday as I couldn't get logged on~~~I was afraid I had been banned. :doh:

 

[Lynn Gweeny]

Good afternoon everyone! I had a heck of time trying to access and kept getting a white page. I see that lisa has posted LKB's 10 points so I'm anxious to read what she has posted. I went back yesterday before Dr. Lynne Herold's testimony to listen to LKB's OS and didn't finish, so this is great that lisa has posted about the 10 points. BRB

 

[lisafremont]

We still need the 10th point, although I am sure I can refute it, whatever it is.

Today on Jami Floyd's show she had CDA Cynthia (Don't call me Nancy) Sinatra opining that Dr Herold's testimony is irrelevant!

 

[blondekj]

Lisa, on point number 9, wasn't there some testimony that the blood smear on the gun handle matched the smear on Lana Clarkson's left hand and this indicates that the gun was placed into her hand after the bleeding event.

In other words, Phil tried to stage a left handed suicide by a right handed victim.

Did I misunderstand the testimony?

 

[Lynn Gweeny]

I haven't been able to find an article or a video clip where LKB talks about the 10th point.

lisa, great job on the other 9, especially the one where LKB specifically said "science will even suggest that she loaded the gun." (@4:45 in the video). It was even mentioned in the 1st point about the location of the bullet wound, LKB says that Lana "hurt herself before drinking Tequila (@11:07 in the video). I think that was the mistaken notion by the defense that when Lana broke her wrists dancing at a children's Christmas party that she was 'drunk' on Tequila.

 

[Lynn Gweeny]

Lisa, on point number 9, wasn't there some testimony that the blood smear on the gun handle matched the smear on Lana Clarkson's left hand and this indicates that the gun was placed into her hand after the bleeding event.

In other words, Phil tried to stage a left handed suicide by a right handed victim.

Did I misunderstand the testimony?

Yes, that's what Dr. Herold testified when AJ showed her the photo of the gun's handle that had the two blood smears on the wood grip. She basically said that someONE or someTHING made the marks after Lana's death. She even said one of the possiblities to this occurring was that someone may have attempted to PRESS the weapon into her left hand.

 

[nellydee]

Even without the conclusion of evidence, I can refute 9 of the 10 points of science that LKB raised in her OS. (The 10th is not available from archived excerpt rewatched by sunstar, her notes posted on the other website on the thread I began in order to compare/contrast OS's with actual evidence.)

10 points refuted --- well, nine anyway (Does anyone know the 10th pt?)

1) LKB: "teeth would be broken inward if gun was shoved inside her mouth."

**I say: only if her teeth were clenched. It is completely reasonable to believe that she could have been speaking or he could have forced her to with the gun in her face.
Also she completely ignores the bruises on her tongue and her wrists which are consistent with a struggle.

2) blood spatter goes 6-8 feet

** I say: Dr Herold says that blood back spatter goes 2- 4 feet. The person who will say 6-8 feet is Dr Henry Lee and he will be utterly discredited to the jury anyway.
But even without that--- the facts show that there was NO high-velocity spatter on her outstretched legs and her shoes, no h-v spatter on the rug or on the wood paneling on staircase (testimony by Renteria about Luminol testing).
Also there is the h-v blood spatter on PS's white jacket which matches the h-v blood spatter on Lana's skirt which proves that PS was standing there

3) tissue on jacket buttons

**was not there from the shooting event rather from the later purge at the coroner's office

4) GSR -- LKB: "absence" on PS

**No, not an absence, a reduction, easily explained by the 40 mins. bet. the shooting and his arrest and the oppty to wash, wipe and remove it.

5) teeth-- location of fragments proves no one was in front of her

**We know that PS went upstairs (blood on bannister, jacket found upstairs, he was seen in the upstairs by LE) and tooth fragments might have fallen off him on the way up the stairs.

6) DNA on bullets proved she loaded the gun

** DNA was found on the TIPS of the bullets and was there as a result of her being shot with the gun in her mouth.
The notion that she loaded the gun is ludicrous, as is the assertion that the gun was hers.
Gun fit in the holster with the old Hunter logo.
Bullets (Speer and Smith & Wesson +P not sold since 1983) in 3 hand guns in house prove the gun and bullets belonged to Spector.
It's ridiculous to assert she brought an unloaded .38 to the Castle with the intent to find .38 bullets there with which to kill herself is laughable.

7)"physical size disparity between LC and PS" proves he didn't shoot her
plus he had the hand tremors

** Piffle! A gun is the great equalizer. Also physical evidence shows she was seated when shot.
Hand tremors? What better way to steady his hand than sticking the muzzle in her mouth??

8)clotted blood on diaper

** Shows he wiped her face at least 3 mins after shooting her. This is cover-up not aid.

9) PS didn't try to cover up the scene. Gun not planted or wiped.

** Gun had no fingerprints on it and also smeared blood on it. It WAS wiped.
It is idiotic to maintain that the gun fell from her right hand and landed under her left leg.
There was also the very credible testimony from ADS that Spector came out of the Castle holding the gun.

10) _____

I don't know point # 10 either. However, in regard to #8. Dr. Herold concluded that she believed Lana's face was wiped due to the fact that the blood on her face was smeared in comparison to the mount of blood on the diaper. Let me also say that I think Dr. Herold's testimony wil smackdown Henry Lee's opinions. Especially the "six-foot" spatter.:razz:

 

[lisafremont]

Right but she said, I thought, that she couldn't say as a scientist with certainty that that happened owing to the quality, or lack thereof, of the photos of her hand, and that she wasn't at the scene.

It's certainly possible and I think AJ could argue it.

I am watching Mark Ribowsky, author of HE'S A REBEL, on with Adaora and he is saying interesting things.

He believes that there was that night "some sort of sexual by-play with the gun."

WHERE is he getting that? There has been NO EVIDENCE that Lana engaged in "sexual by-play with guns" nor of Spector either, for that matter.

What we do have is evidence via four credible women who experienced being alone with a drunken Spector and enduring his menacing them with one or more guns when they wanted to leave.

And that is consistent with Lana's body, purse on shoulder, near the exit!! And the foyer scenario is hardly consistent with "sexual by-play with a gun." Why does no one call him on this??

"He hasn't got a prayer of winning this case," says Ribowsky who is looking forward to the defense presentation.

"But don't you think what was promised by LKB is sorta like crumbling as they go along?"

Adaora reminds him that she made a "cogent argument" in her opening. (Excepting that OS AREN'T arguments, Adaora!! That isn't permitted!!) And reminds him that we have to wait until all the evidence is in.

"But it seems as if she was seemingly wrong about the DNA on the underside of the bullets. Her blood, not any fingerprints of LC's..." and he mentions the fleeting reference to the unid'd DNA of a male on some bullets that interests him.

 

[Niner]

"There is no way if he was sober he would have shot anyone." -- Anita Talbert/Talbot

Ah, but DRUNK, Anita?? But DRUNK?? Implicit is that drunk he could have.

Lana was drunk according to this wingnut. "Personally, the way I think it went down" she says is that Lana was drunk and walking with the gun in her mouth around singing and dancing his songs, trying to show off, trying to get a job with him.

She's is an even bigger idiot than I thought.

From "things she heard the day after the shooting." Hmmm. I wonder who she could have heard things from?

Hey Lisa! {wavey:guy} I was just wonder WHERE was this written up?? Do you have a link that I can read the whole thing at?? TIA!! :blowkiss:

 

[blondekj]

I'm not Lisa, but I can tell you that Anita Talbot was interviewed on tv....The Best Defense if I'm not mistaken so there isn't a written record of it anywhere that I'm aware of.

 

[lisafremont]

Right you are, blondekj! The very charming reptilian Anita was on with Bloom and Politan yesterday and peddling her rather threadbare suits of innocence. That Phillip is too smart to have shot anyone, among other equally ludicrous things.
She seems to feel that since Phillip never drank around her and never pulled out a gun on her that even when he had been drinking he would not have pulled a gun out on another woman despite the very credible testimony of the four bad acts witnesses.

 

[panthera]

We still need the 10th point, although I am sure I can refute it, whatever it is.

Today on Jami Floyd's show she had CDA Cynthia (Don't call me Nancy) Sinatra opining that Dr Herold's testimony is irrelevant!

Hi lisa ~ sorry I couldn't get here earlier and then got busy with the Jessie Davis disappearance Good work you've done and I wish that Extra hadn't cut off the last part of LKB O/S which included the 10th point.

 

[Lynn Gweeny]

<SNIPPED>

I am watching Mark Ribowsky, author of HE'S A REBEL, on with Adaora and he is saying interesting things.

He believes that there was that night "some sort of sexual by-play with the gun."

WHERE is he getting that? There has been NO EVIDENCE that Lana engaged in "sexual by-play with guns" nor of Spector either, for that matter.

I didn't get to see him on CTV today, but he was a guest on Nancy Grace's HLN show on CNN, along with Lana's friend, Edward Lozzi, back on December 19, 2006. Ribowsky tells NG that 'there's a lot of ignorance about this case because it takes a careful reading of the grand jury and the police reports." Having left the impression that indeed HE has read them carefully, he goes on to say this about Lana ..... "she was not fully clothed when she was found" ..... that "the only DNA that was found on her was SEMEN on one of her breasts." ..... "So, there obviously had been some sexual play going on in the house". :doh:

Thank goodnes Edward Lozzi was also a guest who had access to the autopsy reports and questions whether Ribowsky actually read the same reports.

It's an interesting read of the transcript of that show.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/19/ng.01.html