GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

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Look at at the crowd gathered to honor Leila! God bless her family, friends and community!


How likely is it that Leila had been secretly molested and the molester was afraid she would talk....so he murdered her? How did the killer know her parents would not be home that night? Just throwing out thoughts. Imo
 
Elizabeth Roberts ‏@eroberts1966 3m
Leila's mom and brother, thanking the Valley Springs community for their support: "It will never be forgotten." pic.twitter.com/bOhzuAxfmf

Elizabeth Roberts ‏@eroberts1966 8m
Leila's vigil. pic.twitter.com/1ImTx6xVL1

Second picture link above:

BJJdiwJCIAA4OZf.jpg

Looks like the entire valley came out for the vigil. RIP sweet Leila! Now let's find the @!*#!& who did this!
 
Lots of fresh faces here.

roselle, alp1981 and CNNAnh

Great posts from all of you. Welcome to WS!
 
". . . . Former FBI Profiler Offers Insight into Leila Fowler Investigation
Link to read below, I cut and paste the article below: So everyone else agree or disagree with what the former FBI say?" CNNNah

"In case its one of those rare stranger crimes, Rayfield says investigators could be digging into websites online, and constructing a timeline of the girl’s last few days, using that timeline to look for surveillance video in the area".


Hi CNNAnh, :wagon: I'm glad you joined today and what a great post!!! I liked the ex-profiler's idea in the Snippet from your link above. Constructing a timeline thru surveillance videos sounds like a plan that would have immediate results. What a sad case this is, a precious little girl.
 
Just an FYI-this is a victim friendly forum (I see you are new, so you may not know.) The brother has not been named a POI and we are not allowed to sleuth him. Plus he is a minor, so we definitely can't sleuth him. It is apparent that he is not involved anyway. There are several witnesses who describe seeing a man with the same description given by the boy fleeing the scene. I would assume no murder weapon was found and the boy had no blood on him or they wouldn't be on a man hunt asking people to stay in their homes.

I will answer a couple of your questions, however, for clarity.

i have some opinions/questions i wanted to run past anyone on here that is willing to listen. please do not mistaken what i am about to say as something i believe. i am not accusing anyone i am just voicing some thoughts that rolled around in my mind. i do not know all the details of this crime. i understand that we (the general public) are only given information that is pertinent as not to jeoprodize an active case. some questions did stand out in my mind that i am trying to give reasonable answers to. i will try to list them in order of events. hopefully i can get some good answers to the questions on my mind. i try my hardest to understand human behavior but at times i fail to grasp the most simple of things. ok here we go, please feel free to comment on any question i ask:

1 - wouldn't a 12 yead old child (or an adult for that matter) run away from an intruder in the home? especially if this intruder was 6 feet tall and muscular? i am finding it hard to picture a child chasing a larger man with a weapon out of the house. is this something that is commonly done, such as a fight or flight response?

My son is 12, almost 13. Many of his friends his age are as large as grown men and are athletic and could take a grown man. Plus, I would think any initial reaction would be to chase the guy away. I've seen kids do lots of brave things before. But I don't think he chased him away. I think he just happened to see him running away.

2 - why did this 12 year old not call 911 first after finding his younger sister wounded and in dire need of help? i cannot speak for all children but i would think most parents instill the importance of 911 at a young age. would this be a response due to shock?

He called his father who called 911.

3 - during the second press release the parents did not want to talk. i understand and respect thier choice but what i did not understand was the fathers behavoir. why did he stand there with his hands in his pockets for more than half of the press looking as though he was emotionless? his fiance was obviosly very distraught and clinging to him. why did he take so long to wrap his arm around her to comfort her? is this the kind of common behavoir seen from grieving parents?

Again-they are victimis. Their daughter was brutally murdered. What can we glean from people's reactions? They appear normal to me. The mother in tears and the father looking like he wanted to kick somebody's you-know-what.
4 - the officer was asked during the second press if the rest of the town was at risk. i do not remember the exact wording but his answer confused me. why would he say that they (LE) did not believe the rest of the town was at risk? if there is a killer still on the loose in such as small town i would think everyone is at risk. what would cause LE to not think the rest of the town was in imminent danger? does anyone here think they already have a suspect in mind? wouldnt the FBI have become involved if a dangerous suspect has been at large for more than 2 days?
I don't think they have a suspect in mind-just a good description of the suspect. They have indicated he is armed and dangerous and at-large.
i apologize if the questions i ask seem pointless but at times my "theory of mind" seems to be lacking. thank you all for your time.
 
Just an FYI-this is a victim friendly forum (I see you are new, so you may not know.) The brother has not been named a POI and we are not allowed to sleuth him. Plus he is a minor, so we definitely can't sleuth him. It is apparent that he is not involved anyway. There are several witnesses who describe seeing a man with the same description given by the boy fleeing the scene. I would assume no murder weapon was found and the boy had no blood on him or they wouldn't be on a man hunt asking people to stay in their homes.

I will answer a couple of your questions, however, for clarity.


Again-they are victimis. Their daughter was brutally murdered. What can we glean from people's reactions? They appear normal to me. The mother in tears and the father looking like he wanted to kick somebody's you-know-what.
4 - the officer was asked during the second press if the rest of the town was at risk. i do not remember the exact wording but his answer confused me. why would he say that they (LE) did not believe the rest of the town was at risk? if there is a killer still on the loose in such as small town i would think everyone is at risk. what would cause LE to not think the rest of the town was in imminent danger? does anyone here think they already have a suspect in mind? wouldnt the FBI have become involved if a dangerous suspect has been at large for more than 2 days?
I don't think they have a suspect in mind-just a good description of the suspect. They have indicated he is armed and dangerous and at-large.
i apologize if the questions i ask seem pointless but at times my "theory of mind" seems to be lacking. thank you all for your time

Post snipped for space. BBM

I have seen LE use that "yes the killer is still at large and no we don't think the community is at risk" comment used before. But usually only when they are believing it is a possible domestic situation.

Would the FBI become involved? As far as I know the FBI only becomes involved in two situations. If the crime or criminal crossed state lines or if the local authority requests that they become involved. And even then the amount of their involvement can vary.
 
found the reference to the blended family.

VERCAMMEN: And Leila's mother telling CNN that she had five siblings, brothers and sisters, living here in Valley Springs and they also had an extended blended family, three other siblings out of state, Zoraida, and they said that Leila just loved all these brothers and sisters.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/29/es.03.html

I googled Zoraida...

couldn't find the city...

does anyone know what state it is in?

Or am I just reading this post wrong...?

TIA...:seeya:
 
Look at at the crowd gathered to honor Leila! God bless her family, friends and community!


How likely is it that Leila had been secretly molested and the molester was afraid she would talk....so he murdered her? How did the killer know her parents would not be home that night? Just throwing out thoughts. Imo

I've had the same thoughts.
 
I'm not around that area too often but I think it's HWY 50 you're thinking of. I know that does close when big storms come through, probably from around Placerville on up to Tahoe. IDK about HWY 124??

Ok- I live close and was raised in this area. I've spent lots of time here. The road known as Ebbets Pass is HWY 4. It goes up through Murphys and Arnold, past Bear Vally ski resort and Lake Alpine. Ebbetts pass is beyond that, going up into the Sierras proper, ending up in Nevada.

Valley springs is actually much closer into the San Joaquin Valley than that area. It closest large city is Stockton. It is about 30-40min East of stockton on hwy 26. It is my understanding that the Fowlers lived in Rancho Calaveras, which is slightly southwest of Valley Springs (even closer to Stockton).

Look, to describe this best- it is rural FOOTHILL area... no pines or redwoods, but lots of oaks and rocks jutting out of the earth. Rattlesnakes galore. Think Little House on the Prairie, but add some hills. Foothills, not mountains. It gets really hot up there- 100F in summer, but it is below the snow line. Occasionally, they get snow, but it is not usual. Ebbets pass is MUCH higher, and closes at Bear Valley ski resort (hwy4) for the winter due to snow. The only way in for locals beyond that point is snowmobile. But that is HIGHER elevation- not really near valley springs.

Again I will say the area is rampant with drugs, dealers, and a degree of anonymity and lawlessness. And sweet, nice people, including wealthy people, looking to have affordable, picturesque large property. I know a lot of people who are from that area, and it is known that it is beautiful, but druggy country. They tend to keep to themselves, but if you stumble over their territory, you're done. People who are raised down in Stockton and other central valley towns, who have been around awhile, would avoid moving to certain areas up that way- Valley Springs, Angels Camp, San Andreas, Mokelumne Hill are a few. It's so sad, because there are such nice people/property up there, but mixed in with big time, low life drug dealers and don't even know it.

I am not trying to slam the area.. we go up to the Foothills often for wine tasting, cave exploring, b&bs, etc. It is beautiful, and the gold rush history is amazing. But it still seems to draw those who want to hide/fly under the radar. And the remoteness doesn't help with security.

Added: The Placerville link, IMHO, is prolly nothing. It is a major PITA to get from Valley Springs to Placerville. Stockton, if escaping by car, is a much faster, direct, anonymous route. Which is probably why early press said San Joaquin LE was involved. You leave the foothills and go down into the agricultural area/orchards of the central valley. Even more hiding places- Basically, you go 15min out of Valley Springs, and you are in Wesley Shermantine country. And look how well he hid their victims. :-( :-(

LE is correct- way too many places to hide. Too many crazies that melt into surroundings... just look back at Leonard Lake and Charles Ng- Calaveras County torture chamber nuts.
 
I googled Zoraida...

couldn't find the city...

does anyone know what state it is in?

Or am I just reading this post wrong...?

TIA...:seeya:

Zoraida Sambolin is one of the hosts of Early Start, the CNN program that the transcript is for.
 
In a hastily called news conference Monday night, Calaveras County sheriff's Capt. Jim Macedo identified the father of Leila Fowler as Barney Fowler and the mother as Krystal Walters. The names of the parents had not been previously released.

Any reporter could have found out the names of the parents within 10 minutes of hearing about the murder. However, it took 2 days before the parents' names were mentioned in the media. Did the media just wait to be respectful...or is there some sort of law that says they must wait until names are formally released before they can mention them?

Is this going to be one of those cases where the media will only talk about what is formally released by LE through news releases and press conferences? That is not necessarily a bad thing...but I do wish they would do some investigating of their own. Has the media even shown a picture of the house yet? Why don't they look into the hitchhiker story more?
 
Zoraida Sambolin is one of the hosts of Early Start, the CNN program that the transcript is for.

Oh... I guess that is why when I was googling Zoraida... All I came up with was Zoraida Sambolin, CNN host! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
Ok- I live close and was raised in this area. I've spent lots of time here. The road known as Ebbets Pass is HWY 4. It goes up through Murphys and Arnold, past Bear Vally ski resort and Lake Alpine. Ebbetts pass is beyond that, going up into the Sierras proper, ending up in Nevada.

Valley springs is actually much closer into the San Joaquin Valley than that area. It closest large city is Stockton. It is about 30-40min East of stockton on hwy 26. It is my understanding that the Fowlers lived in Rancho Calaveras, which is slightly southwest of Valley Springs (even closer to Stockton).

Look, to describe this best- it is rural FOOTHILL area... no pines or redwoods, but lots of oaks and rocks jutting out of the earth. Rattlesnakes galore. Think Little House on the Prairie, but add some hills. Foothills, not mountains. It gets really hot up there- 100F in summer, but it is below the snow line. Occasionally, they get snow, but it is not usual. Ebbets pass is MUCH higher, and closes at Bear Valley ski resort (hwy4) for the winter due to snow. The only way in for locals beyond that point is snowmobile. But that is HIGHER elevation- not really near valley springs.

Again I will say the area is rampant with drugs, dealers, and a degree of anonymity and lawlessness. And sweet, nice people, including wealthy people, looking to have affordable, picturesque large property. I know a lot of people who are from that area, and it is known that it is beautiful, but druggy country. They tend to keep to themselves, but if you stumble over their territory, you're done. People who are raised down in Stockton and other central valley towns, who have been around awhile, would avoid moving to certain areas up that way- Valley Springs, Angels Camp, San Andreas, Mokelumne Hill are a few. It's so sad, because there are such nice people/property up there, but mixed in with big time, low life drug dealers and don't even know it.

I am not trying to slam the area.. we go up to the Foothills often for wine tasting, cave exploring, b&bs, etc. It is beautiful, and the gold rush history is amazing. But it still seems to draw those who want to hide/fly under the radar. And the remoteness doesn't help with security.

Added: The Placerville link, IMHO, is prolly nothing. It is a major PITA to get from Valley Springs to Placerville. Stockton, if escaping by car, is a much faster, direct, anonymous route. Which is probably why early press said San Joaquin LE was involved. You leave the foothills and go down into the agricultural area/orchards of the central valley. Even more hiding places- Basically, you go 15min out of Valley Springs, and you are in Wesley Shermantine country. And look how well he hid their victims. :-( :-(

LE is correct- way too many places to hide. Too many crazies that melt into surroundings... just look back at Leonard Lake and Charles Ng- Calaveras County torture chamber nuts.

THANK YOU. I thought this town was up closer to Arnold etc. I was looking at the map incorrectly. You gave me a better idea of the layout. Thanks.

I did make the connection with Shermantine too, unfortunately. Lots of speed freaks in that entire area. I can believe that some meth heads stumbled upon her and stabbed her just because. I am not sure.
 
Thank you Hamsterdance, and katydid23 for welcome me. This is a very nice forum
Sorry for my bad English grammars. I'm Asian and English is my third language, thank you for bearing reading my post.
Just curious, since they still cannot find the killer yet, has the police extend their search territory to like other closeby cities? The killer might already fled to another city, it is possible if he have a car nearby, and since the police don't know his car plate number. Yes, witness say the killer fled on foot, but he could have a car park nearby.
Um, if that one witness say give the suspect a ride is true, then maybe the suspect don't have a car, then he might can still be in the neighborhood. But eitherway, I think the police should expand their search to neighbor cities.

According to former FBI, http://fox40.com/2013/04/29/former-fbi-profiler-offers-insight-into-leila-fowler-investigation/#ixzz2S08E08Rz
While there is no concrete information about a suspect, Rayfield’s experience says the killing wasn’t random.
“It would be rare that it was a stranger that committed this crime and I would think maybe even more rare in a community like that, in the middle of the street in a rural environment like that where the houses are on one-or-two-acre lots. I would think it would be somebody who has some kind of connection with the home,” said Rayfield.

Has the sheriff reject this theory yet? If not, then this theory could be a possibility. Since this is extended family, could be someone from their past dislike them, and decided to harm the child. Yah, that sound like in opera, LOL. but possible.

Welcome ! I had the same problem when i registered. I just emailed admin at the same time and said I'm a real person and they bumped my registration through. Someone will always answer back really soon if you run into an issue. Thanks for joining for Leila !
 
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