GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

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alp1981 said:
i have some opinions/questions i wanted to run past anyone on here that is willing to listen. please do not mistaken what i am about to say as something i believe. i am not accusing anyone i am just voicing some thoughts that rolled around in my mind. i do not know all the details of this crime. i understand that we (the general public) are only given information that is pertinent as not to jeoprodize an active case. some questions did stand out in my mind that i am trying to give reasonable answers to. i will try to list them in order of events. hopefully i can get some good answers to the questions on my mind. i try my hardest to understand human behavior but at times i fail to grasp the most simple of things. ok here we go, please feel free to comment on any question i ask:

1 - wouldn't a 12 yead old child (or an adult for that matter) run away from an intruder in the home? especially if this intruder was 6 feet tall and muscular? i am finding it hard to picture a child chasing a larger man with a weapon out of the house. is this something that is commonly done, such as a fight or flight response?

2 - why did this 12 year old not call 911 first after finding his younger sister wounded and in dire need of help? i cannot speak for all children but i would think most parents instill the importance of 911 at a young age. would this be a response due to shock?

3 - during the second press release the parents did not want to talk. i understand and respect thier choice but what i did not understand was the fathers behavoir. why did he stand there with his hands in his pockets for more than half of the press looking as though he was emotionless? his fiance was obviosly very distraught and clinging to him. why did he take so long to wrap his arm around her to comfort her? is this the kind of common behavoir seen from grieving parents?

4 - the officer was asked during the second press if the rest of the town was at risk. i do not remember the exact wording but his answer confused me. why would he say that they (LE) did not believe the rest of the town was at risk? if there is a killer still on the loose in such as small town i would think everyone is at risk. what would cause LE to not think the rest of the town was in imminent danger? does anyone here think they already have a suspect in mind? wouldnt the FBI have become involved if a dangerous suspect has been at large for more than 2 days?

i apologize if the questions i ask seem pointless but at times my "theory of mind" seems to be lacking. thank you all for your time.
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mysteriew said:
Post snipped for space. BBM

I have seen LE use that "yes the killer is still at large and no we don't think the community is at risk" comment used before. But usually only when they are believing it is a possible domestic situation.

Would the FBI become involved? As far as I know the FBI only becomes involved in two situations. If the crime or criminal crossed state lines or if the local authority requests that they become involved. And even then the amount of their involvement can vary.
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I have seen them say that same statement often on numerous cases concerning children and adults too. Even when later on the murderer of the child or adult was found to be a stranger. Their main objective is to keep the community calm. LE did tell the community that they have stepped up patrol in the area. They think the extra police presence will keep the community safe. Personally I don't think it is even necessary for LE to tell the community to be on high alert in these type of case. Parents don't need directives from LE. Everyone in that community will be on high alert until this monster is caught.

The FBI can become involved in any case that has to do with minor children. The FBI assisted in the Ridgeway case and Lamar case to name two but there are many instances where they assist if it is the kidnapping or murder of a minor child. Even children that were murdered in their home by a stranger or taken out and then murdered closeby.

IMO
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
I googled Zoraida...

couldn't find the city...

does anyone know what state it is in?

Or am I just reading this post wrong...?

TIA...:seeya:
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Zoriada was the name of the second reporter the first reporter was speaking to in the transcript from CNN or HLN that was posted upthread. It confused me too til I opened the link, then I realized its a person not a place. HTH
 
SCHMAE said:
Couldn't the brother identify this man if he were the one in their house?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/placerville-kidnapping-suspect-investigated-connec/nXcp2/

The one thing that strikes me is 'devil told him to' because the crime seems utterly senseless and that would explain a ' reason' ( not that its a reasonable reason to anyone sane )
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My neighbor's granddaughter was raped by a stranger when she was a young child. The parents and older brother were all sleeping. The perp came in the young girl's window took her out of the home in a very rural area and took her nearby and repeatedly raped her. Thank God he let her go and did not kill her. She came into her parents room crying and all bloody. It was only then that they knew what had happened. The police found him and he had left his own DNA behind.

He is still in prison. This happened when she was four and she is now twenty two.

In this case I think he came in with intentions of possibly taking her out of the home to rape her or rape her there if he didn't know her brother was there but she fought back. He then murdered her so she couldn't tell what he had done.

IMO
 
As this is reportedly a home invasion and stabbing, a homicide, and a resident of the house apparently saw the killer, I could not help but think of the Percy case. It is good that someone outside of the home may have seen the murderer as well, as the earlier case (and others) attest, if the case goes unsolved for a while, some members of the public will think such a scenario is impossible without involved of the murder by a family member.
 
I am still open to this guy being a suspect in both cases. I assume the 12 yr old could ID him from his mugshot. But his 'motive' in the Placerville case sounds like it fits the Valley Springs killing. JMO
 
even if the brother is able to identify him, I still think LE would wait for the DNA match to back it up. The Placerville guy is in custody and not going anywhere
 
I'm only halfway through the thread, so I don't know if this has already been posted. I saw it on FB.
Police are investigating a possible link between an attempted kidnapping of a toddler and the killing of an 8-year-old schoolgirl.
A man was accused of breaking into a Placerville apartment in California yesterday (Tuesday), three days after a girl was killed at her home in Calaveras County, 45 miles away.
Police arrested Jason Wryrynen, 44, after getting a call around 8am yesterday alleging that he had entered the apartment and tried to take a 15-month-old girl from her mother.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ornia-girl-8-home-invasion.html#ixzz2S3BQ593F
 
snapdragon said:
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/01/5385125/placerville-kidnap-suspect-probed.html

NUTCASE. IDK if he has anything to do with Leila's murder, but I hope he never sees the light of day. TV news says a Pittsburgh, CA attempted abduction of a 2yr old in her front yard is being investigated as well, to see if there is a link to Jason Wayrynen.
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I work literally around the corner from the attempted kidnapping in Pittsburg CA. Do you have a link to the Pitrsburg case being investigated in connection with the Placerville one? I am just curious because I have not heard anything about it at all recently. The sketch they have released doesn't look anything like the guy that was arrested or the description on the suspect in LF's murder, IMO at least. TY
 
where is the bio mother in all of this? (just curious)

and who in their right mind would pick up a bloody hitch hiker? I would call 911 and report it, no way am I letting someone get into my car. That story seems fishy, and why go on tv and report it as well?
 
sleuther317 said:
I work literally around the corner from the attempted kidnapping in Pittsburg CA. Do you have a link to the Pitrsburg case being investigated in connection with the Placerville one? I am just curious because I have not heard anything about it at all recently. The sketch they have released doesn't look anything like the guy that was arrested or the description on the suspect in LF's murder, IMO at least. TY
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Dave Clark, newscaster on KTVU morning news, reported about the Placerville attempted abduction and its possible connection to the Fowler homicide. I am not quoting here, but he mentioned something to the effect that authorities are looking into any possible connection to the attempted abduction in Pittsburg. It was how i even found out there was an attempted abduction in Pittsburg, as i was unaware.

I did not get the impression from the news comment that there was anything other than the commonality of being recent brazen child abductions. It is prudent of LE to look at all recent child abduction/ attempted abduction cases when investigating a case such as this.

I cannot find an internet link on ktvu.com, and i don't see video replay of this morning' s report. This was reported around the top of the 6am hour.
 
lillygator said:
where is the bio mother in all of this? (just curious)

and who in their right mind would pick up a bloody hitch hiker? I would call 911 and report it, no way am I letting someone get into my car. That story seems fishy, and why go on tv and report it as well?
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Unsure about any bio mom. Without sleuthing family (which is a :nono:) it is hard to say but maybe bio mom is not in the picture, we really have no idea.
 
alp1981 said:
3 - during the second press release the parents did not want to talk. i understand and respect thier choice but what i did not understand was the fathers behavoir. why did he stand there with his hands in his pockets for more than half of the press looking as though he was emotionless? his fiance was obviosly very distraught and clinging to him. why did he take so long to wrap his arm around her to comfort her? is this the kind of common behavoir seen from grieving parents?
Click to expand...

We are strong for our spouse. Which means, for us, we need to be rocks for them when they need us. Sometimes we don't know how BEST to be rocks, but we try.

My family was torn by something horrific that happened to our daughter and early on *I* started to lose it. My wife grabbed me and told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to be strong for her because SHE was losing it. From that point on, any emotional outbursts I had were done in private.

And more importantly -- for some families, our pain is private and not to be shared with strangers be they well-meaning or otherwise.

Questions about families reactions as see on news reports should be right out the window as far as discussions go. Being on the INSIDE of such a thing, I can tell you that the media is not very good at accuracy (both in facts and by accidental or deliberate omission).

Remember, we are seeing a "key-hole" view here. You can't get a good impression of someone or something from a 5 paragraph print article or a 3 minute news segment. They're not designed to convey evidence or detail but to give the public generic information about "the story" -- and sell time to advertisers.
 
Jhon said:
We are strong for our spouse. Which means, for us, we need to be rocks for them when they need us. Sometimes we don't know how BEST to be rocks, but we try.

My family was torn by something horrific that happened to our daughter and early on *I* started to lose it. My wife grabbed me and told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to be strong for her because SHE was losing it. From that point on, any emotional outbursts I had were done in private.

And more importantly -- for some families, our pain is private and not to be shared with strangers be they well-meaning or otherwise.

Questions about families reactions as see on news reports should be right out the window as far as discussions go. Being on the INSIDE of such a thing, I can tell you that the media is not very good at accuracy (both in facts and by accidental or deliberate omission).

Remember, we are seeing a "key-hole" view here. You can't get a good impression of someone or something from a 5 paragraph print article or a 3 minute news segment. They're not designed to convey evidence or detail but to give the public generic information about "the story" -- and sell time to advertisers.
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Hi Jhon welcome. You bring up a good point that many times a spouse will have to act like a "rock" and be strong during duress for their family and partner.
Everyone reacts differently to traumatic events.
The family has many children and it's likely dad was trying to stay strong for not only his wife, yet his other children as well.

At the one press conference the Sheriff mentioned the mother wanted to be known as Leila's mother. I am thinking the children may be adopted, as their is a wide variety of genetics displayed. So they may not necessarily be step, yet some may be adopted, IMO.

Towards the end of the video of the presser, the father went and hugged the mother.

As for the article written by Lenore who describes a neighbor, Hall, who mentions that the family kept to themselves. All i have to say is that they are a large family with many kids. It's obvious the parents take part in their children's events.
Possibly having such a large family, work, keeping up with various childrens' agenda would prevent them from socializing with neighbors (unlike someone with only 2 children). They definitely seem to be involved in their children's lives.

At the presser last night, they had at least 4 very little ones there. The rest were older a bit, though it's hard to tell exact ages. I believe more than 5 live in the home. I'm not sure if that 5/3 ratio from CNN transcript is accurate.
 
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