GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

[TheDuchess]

5611 go to google maps and put in the address as 5611 you'll see the pool that used to be there on the left hand side. You can move past with street view and see the children's toys that match up to the police photos of the house someone else posted.

If the address is supposed to be a secret, whoops then i suppose it is really 5621

map link:
https://maps.google.com/maps?safe=o...=1366&bih=643&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wl

Then you have to move down the road downhill past the pool and house on left*

Yes and if you route it to the ball fields as in my above post, you will see that it is merely a 10 minute drive. Call from the home to the parents cell. Race to car, call 911 on the road. Drive like a banshee and you could definitely get there before emergency responders, have enough time to cradle the little girl (or more than likely trying everything to get the bleeding to stop.) I would imagine once ER's got there, they would have taken her pretty quickly (whether by ambulance or helicopter) to try to get her to a trauma center.

 

[tlcya]

Respectfully, we are better than this. We can have a discussion and differ in opinions without it becoming like this.

If anyone feels another member is posting improperly rather than quote and argue the point, we all know what we are supposed to do. If you feel a post is offensive or a poster is not following the rules an alert works so much better than encouraging it to continue by responding to it.

 

[TheDuchess]

While ITA with this, would it be possible the family either
A: in denial?
B: realize their child (speculation here only) has a history of sorts so they come to accept he needs help rather than risk more incidents?

In California, it is true that a minor can only be interviewed with parents or lawyer present, correct? I am not sure.

I just cant' imgine this family leaving an 8 year old home alone if they would have any idea that the 12 year old was "troubled." Obviously, he was babysitting. If the 12 year old had issues, they would have likely not left him alone, let alone in charge of his little sister. JMO.

 

[TheDuchess]

Respectfully, we are better than this. We can have a discussion and differ in opinions without it becoming like this.

If anyone feels another member is posting improperly rather than quote and argue the point, we all know what we are supposed to do. If you feel a post is offensive or a poster is not following the rules an alert works so much better than encouraging it to continue by responding to it.

I guess that may be in reference to me. Does anyone know how to send a message to a mod? I am not sure if anyone is necessarily posting anything against TOS that I would necessarily report to a mod, but maybe some guidance may help. I really don't feel I am doing anything wrong by defending the victims in this case, who at this point in time, are the Fowler/Walters family. Maybe I am wrong here. JMO.

 

[tlcya]

and again, have seen comments beneath articles by locals which seem to indicate there have been issues with response times for ambulance service in the area.

The timeline and distances involved, as I understand them, affords time for the family to arrive before first responders.

 

[tlcya]

you can pm a mod at anytime. They appreciate if you use pm for questions, clarifications and save the alert button for reporting specific posts.

scroll to bottom of page and click forum leaders to see who is online right now

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Yes and if you route it to the ball fields as in my above post, you will see that it is merely a 10 minute drive. Call from the home to the parents cell. Race to car, call 911 on the road. Drive like a banshee and you could definitely get there before emergency responders, have enough time to cradle the little girl (or more than likely trying everything to get the bleeding to stop.) I would imagine once ER's got there, they would have taken her pretty quickly (whether by ambulance or helicopter) to try to get her to a trauma center.

Where is the source that the Little League game was at those baseball fields?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The crime was reported about 12:15 p.m. Saturday, when Leila’s parents phoned 911 dispatchers, according to the Sheriff’s Office.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Kidnap-suspect-eyed-in-Fowler-case

Deputy Coroner Steve Moore said Leila arrived by ambulance at Mark Twain Medical Center in San Andreas at 12:55 p.m. Saturday

http://www.modbee.com/2013/04/29/2693050/sheriff-says-intruder-intended.html#storylink=cpy

It's a 24 minute drive from Leila's house to the hospital.
It was 45 minutes from when LE got the 911 call to when Leila arrived at the hospital.
That leaves 21 minutes for LE to arrive at the house, do whatever they did at the crime scene, get Leila into an ambulance, etc.
I think the times make sense.

ETA: Okay, would the ambulance be coming from the hospital? Or is it possible it was driving closer to Leila's house (with no patients on board)?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

{mod snip}

Most people do react the same. Compare Mark Lunsford to Hailey Dunn's mother - world of difference. Yes the parents are victimized by this tragedy but as of today no one knows who murdered poor Leila. IF IF IF there was no intruder then the parents have a trauma beyond imagination. I believe that people's actions/reactions emotions/lack of emotions tell a lot. You don't know either why the parents are not comforting each other - it could be the cameras, it could be things from their past. No one knows so don't slam the poster who wonders what it could mean.[/

I disagree. I believe it is within my rights to take issue with a poster who is implying how the family (victims!!!!) are "acting." And no-actually I believe you are wrong. The way people act or don't act really tells us absolutely nothing whatsoever. EVIDENCE tells us a lot, however.

I don't agree. If the family refused to cooperate, if they stopped talking to LE, refused to give hair, DNA, and fingerprint samples, etc, it would tell me something. If the family wouldn't talk to LE, but was all over the media, that would tell me something. I know that for me, the fact that the family is cooperating is one of the reasons why I think there's a very good chance it was an intruder.

 

[TheDuchess]

Where is the source that the Little League game was at those baseball fields?

Oh sorry...I posted about it upthread somewhere. I just looked up the Little League in the area, which is Foothills LL and they seem to play their games at the "clay pits." The fields are located just outside of Valley Springs "downtown" on Paloma. I was just saying that these field are a more likely location than some of the other fields mentioned earlier in the thread and if the game was at the clay pits, it is only about a 10 minute drive to the home.

It hasn't been confirmed as of yet where the game was played. Just speculating, but trying to illustrate a for-instance that the parents could have raced home quite quickly and beaten emergency response to the home.

 

[TheDuchess]

I don't agree. If the family refused to cooperate, if they stopped talking to LE, refused to give hair, DNA, and fingerprint samples, etc, it would tell me something. If the family wouldn't talk to LE, but was all over the media, that would tell me something. I know that for me, the fact that the family is cooperating is one of the reasons why I think there's a very good chance it was an intruder.

Oh yes...I see where you are coming from there. Yes-some of those things which would constitute not cooperating with LE, absoluteley! But like you, I see them as fully cooperating (LE has said so on several occassions.)

I was only referring to trying to analyze subtle details of people's behaviors in order to try to see what they are thinking. Smiling/not smiling. Crying/not crying. I would definitely draw the line at cooperation or non-cooperation with LE would be a big deal to me.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Oh sorry...I posted about it upthread somewhere. I just looked up the Little League in the area, which is Foothills LL and they seem to play their games at the "clay pits." The fields are located just outside of Valley Springs "downtown" on Paloma. I was just saying that these field are a more likely location than some of the other fields mentioned earlier in the thread and if the game was at the clay pits, it is only about a 10 minute drive to the home.

It hasn't been confirmed as of yet where the game was played. Just speculating, but trying to illustrate a for-instance that the parents could have raced home quite quickly and beaten emergency response to the home.

But on their website, they have the names of the fields they play at, all in towns outside Valley Springs...

http://foothillslittleleague.com/directions-to-fields/

Where did you read the "clay pits" part?

 

[TheDuchess]

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Kidnap-suspect-eyed-in-Fowler-case



http://www.modbee.com/2013/04/29/2693050/sheriff-says-intruder-intended.html#storylink=cpy

It's a 24 minute drive from Leila's house to the hospital.
It was 45 minutes from when LE got the 911 call to when Leila arrived at the hospital.
That leaves 21 minutes for LE to arrive at the house, do whatever they did at the crime scene, get Leila into an ambulance, etc.
I think the times make sense.

ETA: Okay, would the ambulance be coming from the hospital? Or is it possible it was driving closer to Leila's house (with no patients on board)?

OK-actually that would be only 40 minutes from the time of the 911 call to the hospital.

If it is a 24 minute drive from Leila's home to the hospital, I assume we can shave off some of that time to about 15 or 20 minutes with sirens blaring.

So that would mean they left the home 12:35-12:40. That leaves between 20-25 minutes to get an ambulance out to the house (let's say 10 minutes?) Then another 10-15 minutes to get her into the ambulance and go to hospital.

It would seem that the timing is about right. It would seem that there were at least some signs of life for them to try to get her to a hospital. So with her condition at the scene, I would imagine they didn't waste a lot of time at the home and instead got her into the ambulance as quickly as possible.

If I am correct about the ball field, the parents probably arrived either just before or at the same time as the emergency vehicles.

 

[miimaa]

{mod snip}

Most people do react the same. Compare Mark Lunsford to Hailey Dunn's mother - world of difference. Yes the parents are victimized by this tragedy but as of today no one knows who murdered poor Leila. IF IF IF there was no intruder then the parents have a trauma beyond imagination. I believe that people's actions/reactions emotions/lack of emotions tell a lot. You don't know either why the parents are not comforting each other - it could be the cameras, it could be things from their past. No one knows so don't slam the poster who wonders what it could mean.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I believe it is within my rights to take issue with a poster who is implying how the family (victims!!!!) are "acting." And no-actually I believe you are wrong. The way people act or don't act really tells us absolutely nothing whatsoever. EVIDENCE tells us a lot, however.

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Trial of Casey Anthony and more recent trials of Amanda Knox and Jody Arias - much was made of their behavior. - did that tell us anything compared with the 'evidence'?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

OK-actually that would be only 40 minutes from the time of the 911 call to the hospital.

If it is a 24 minute drive from Leila's home to the hospital, I assume we can shave off some of that time to about 15 or 20 minutes with sirens blaring.

So that would mean they left the home 12:35-12:40. That leaves between 20-25 minutes to get an ambulance out to the house (let's say 10 minutes?) Then another 10-15 minutes to get her into the ambulance and go to hospital.

It would seem that the timing is about right. It would seem that there were at least some signs of life for them to try to get her to a hospital. So with her condition at the scene, I would imagine they didn't waste a lot of time at the home and instead got her into the ambulance as quickly as possible.

If I am correct about the ball field, the parents probably arrived either just before or at the same time as the emergency vehicles.

Another article says Leila was declared dead at 1:01 PM so shortly after she arrived at the hospital. Would the paramedics be able to declare her dead at the house? Or in the ambulance? Or do they have to wait until they get to the hospital?

 

[TheDuchess]

But on their website, they have the names of the fields they play at, all in towns outside Valley Springs...

http://foothillslittleleague.com/directions-to-fields/

Where did you read the "clay pits" part?

http://www.eteamz.com/FoothillsLL/locations/

I dug a bit more into Google. I think what they are showing as "driving directions" to field locations are really in reference to "away games." They generall don't put directions to the home field as people would generally know where their home field is located.

If you google the location there is a little side road into the field that you can zoom into and focus on the gates. There is a sign that says "Foothills Little League" no trespassing, alcohol, tabacco, etc..

http://www.google.com/maps?q=valley...=LlBDMwOn4gwe9xaGxFeYoQ&cbp=12,17.73,,2,14.65

ETA-And no dogs??? BOO!!! Duchess no like!

 

[TheDuchess]

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Trial of Casey Anthony and more recent trials of Amanda Knox and Jody Arias - much was made of their behavior. - did that tell us anything compared with the 'evidence'?

Jodi Arias and Amanda Knox were on trial for murder. The Fowler/Walters family is not.

 

[TheDuchess]

Another article says Leila was declared dead at 1:01 PM so shortly after she arrived at the hospital. Would the paramedics be able to declare her dead at the house? Or in the ambulance? Or do they have to wait until they get to the hospital?

Not 100%, but I believe only an actual doctor can declare that officially as a TOD. However, I have seen cases where they have said "died at the scene" or "died on route" or DOA. So it would seem to me that if there were signs of life at the home, that it might be that Leila died on route to the hospital and upon arrival, they very quickly ascertained that there wasn't any hope of saving her.

 

[airplanelamp]

Another article says Leila was declared dead at 1:01 PM so shortly after she arrived at the hospital. Would the paramedics be able to declare her dead at the house? Or in the ambulance? Or do they have to wait until they get to the hospital?

IDK if it is the same everywhere, but where I live, paramedics can't declare a person dead. If they decide to transport to hospital (because they have begun some method of trying to save the person) then the person can only be declared dead by a doctor, upon arrival at the hospital. If the person is clearly dead, without hope, at the home, the paramedics will not transport at all and the coroner will attend the residence to declare the person dead. HTH.

 

[nursebeeme]

Folks:

1) do not sleuth family members. :tos:

2) do NOT ATTACK ONE ANOTHER OR PERSONALIZE YOUR POSTS. That is a :nono:

:nurse: