GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #2

[PoirotryInMotion]

If they are wolves, that makes it even less likely that they typically bark anytime someone goes down the road. Not impossible, just highly unlikely.

Wolves do bark, just not in the same way dogs do or as often or for the same reasons.

If his animals are full wolves I believe him even less.

ETA you didn't cause me confusion PIM, I watched his video interview and thought he called them wolf-dogs. He may have started to say wolves and then changed it to dogs midthought.

ETAA just rewatched the video he calls it a German Wolf which is also known as the Eurasian Wolf (subspecies of the gray wolf). Which I take to mean he claims he has a full blooded Eurasian (or gray) wolf.

Yes, I did, too! Just transcribed, it:

UPDATED 7:38 PM PDT May 08, 2013

Investigators are still searching the Valley Springs home of Leila Fowler, looking for clues into who killed the 8-year-old girl. On Wednesday, KCRA 3's Melinda Meza spoke with a neighbor.

DON, who didn’t want to use his last name, lives right across the street from Leila’s house. He says he was in his front yard when murder happened.

“Nobody came out that door. Plain and simple.”

“I got a German Wolf, 95 pounds. Every time somebody walks down that street, they [sic] start barking. When this all happened there was no barks. Nothing.”

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/leilas-nei...20071972/-/l17ewnz/-/index.html#ixzz2SqPpCCx1

Know next to nothing about the breed, what it's 'supposed to do' characteristically--but if the owner says his dog (or wolf!) habitually barks at anyone walking down the street, and it didn't that day when it was in the front yard with him...AND he didn't see anyone exit the home running...well, sounds like something to consider. For whatever reason (not sure he'd have a motivation to get on TV and outright lie...).

:cow:

 

[tlcya]

He refers to a singular German Wolf but then later says "they"

He may have a wolf and the rest of the pack may be regular canine dogs. That would/could involve quite a bit more barking I imagine.

I still find something off in his affect but that is simply MOO and I am not prepared to debate it because what struck me as off is not something that can be linked or easily explained as it is subjective (my own POV)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

He refers to a singular German Wolf but then later says "they"

He may have a wolf and the rest of the pack may be regular canine dogs. That would/could involve quite a bit more barking I imagine.

I still find something off in his affect but that is simply MOO and I am not prepared to debate it because what struck me as off is not something that can be linked or easily explained as it is subjective (my own POV)

I noticed that, but chalked it up to 'casual' grammar usage, since he said he's got A German Wolf. (He also says 'there was no barks' instead of 'there were no barks.') The message I still got was that the expected barking didn't happen; that's all I came away with, at least. His demeanor didn't bother me--he seemed pretty confident and certain, almost incredulous. But like you say, interpreting demeanor is subjective.

 

[wwc02]

I respect your opinion but hold fast to my own.

The other thing I find a bit odd concerns liability. The other neighbor commented that her pit bull would have pulverized anyone crossing her property.

I don't know about now, but there use to be horse trails through this area. And I believe that there were restrictions on fencing that encroached horse trials. Then, dogs spooking horses into bucking and people getting hurt entered into the mix. The horse trails may be history. Nevertheless, there are horse riders in the area. I think the dog owner is liable for an incident. Then again, horseriders can no longer tresspass if I recall. There may be persistent "right" of ways between fence lines. In fact, I know there are in some instances. Bottom line, I don't know that I would make much of dogs assuring that someone could not have made there way to either the pond or the river without being "pulverized." Further, dogs that bark at the drop of a hat may be ignored, explained away, and forgotten more than realized.

 

[Tennlyn]

He refers to a singular German Wolf but then later says "they"

He may have a wolf and the rest of the pack may be regular canine dogs. That would/could involve quite a bit more barking I imagine.

I still find something off in his affect but that is simply MOO and I am not prepared to debate it because what struck me as off is not something that can be linked or easily explained as it is subjective (my own POV)

I pictured a German Shepherd/Wolf mix when he said German Wolf. Is that a possibility?

I didn't like the guy, but he's not the person of whom I'm most suspicious. Hope there is more news tomorrow! Friday is a great day for arrests, IMO. :moo:

ETA: hmm...just tried to imagine a pug/wolf mix. lol

 

[Linda7NJ]

I pictured a German Shepherd/Wolf mix when he said German Wolf. Is that a possibility?

I didn't like the guy, but he's not the person of whom I'm most suspicious. Hope there is more news tomorrow! Friday is a great day for arrests, IMO. :moo:

ETA: hmm...just tried to imagine a pug/wolf mix. lol

Roflmao! Pug/Wolf mix! That would be something to see!


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[mysteriew]

If they are wolves, that makes it even less likely that they typically bark anytime someone goes down the road. Not impossible, just highly unlikely.

Wolves do bark, just not in the same way dogs do or as often or for the same reasons.

If his animals are full wolves I believe him even less.

ETA you didn't cause me confusion PIM, I watched his video interview and thought he called them wolf-dogs. He may have started to say wolves and then changed it to dogs midthought.

ETAA just rewatched the video he calls it a German Wolf which is also known as the Eurasian Wolf (subspecies of the gray wolf). Which I take to mean he claims he has a full blooded Eurasian (or gray) wolf.

The way I take what he said along with what you have said is that if he pays attention to what is happening around him, and if he knows his dogs personality and mannerisms, then he probably would have paid a lot of attention if his dog barked at something in the neighborhood because they didn't bark often. (Trust me if you have a dog that barks at everything you don't always pay attention. I have one of those.)

I do know my dog knows the neighbors. And she doesn't bark at them. But if someone new visits them she barks. LOL if they go to visit another neighbor, she barks. But as long as they don't have company and stay in their own yards she doesn't bark at them.

If she didn't bark much, I think I would notice more when she did bark, howl or whine. (Though I can usually tell from the change in her bark when someone is coming on this property.)

Also whether or not a wolf dog barked would be influenced IMO by the way the dog was raised. For instance if raised with a barking type dog, or spending a lot of time with a barking type dog the wolf dog would be more likely to bark. IMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Re: the 9-12 timeframe for the game...

Forgive me if I'm confused but hadn't the parents been gone almost 3 hrs by the time the son called them ? That would be a mighty long wait for the perp, right?

Here is where I saw it. I trust POM's timeline

Lol, well I'm just a LITTLE slow today!!...just got what you meant by this. I'm sorry--I can see why that was confusing. That's what I get for copy/pasting directly off my unedited timeline notes.

Here's a new version that hopefully makes more sense. Threw in a couple links, too.

4-27 Saturday

? – ? a.m. Family getting ready for LL game & leave sometime before 11:40 (3 LL ballparks 17+ miles away)

12ish Parents @ game ; 12yo sees intruder/calls parents

12ish Neighbor CL reports seeing dad with bloody shirt at edge of her driveway at “about noon” asking, “Have you seen anything?”
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

12:15 Parents call 911
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Suspects-ruled-out-in-slaying

12:18ish LE dispatcher calls 12 yo; girl has ‘severe’ injuries
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/...r-olds-murder/

12:20-30 Parents arrive home; Leila “rushed” to hospital (barely alive)
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_135af3fe-af98-11e2-a554-0019bb2963f4.html

12:55 Leila arrives at hospital
1:01 PM Leila pronounced dead
http://www.modbee.com/2013/04/28/2691097/calaveras-county-manhunt-continues.html#storylink=cpy

 

[CNNAnh]

Someone here in the previous pages posted said that Leila's was stab 21 times that show the killer don't know how to kill.
I beg to differ, I don't see it that way. I see it as a big possibility of the killer enjoy to see Leila's painfully tortured to death as he stab her 17-21 times.

I am 99% sure this case is not random robbery gone bad case. I think it someone the family or Leila herself know. The killer stab her 21 times, it could means that there was hatress against this family or her, that is why he enjoy stabbing her so many times, just to see her painfully suffer.

Nobody hear Leila's scream, not even the brother, this does not sound right especially if the girl been stab 17-21 times. I don't know how explain, but my guts feeling that this is someone know Leila's family, and deliberately want to harm her.

Since the neighbor dogs didn't bark, this can be that the killer has been to this neighborhood before so the dog see him before. No way a stranger know this little town layouts very well to cleanly escaped, and get rid of all the major evidence.
And it does not matter if the neighbors lie or not about his barking dog, it still clearly show that the killer know the layouts of Leila's house and this little town, he is still on the loose and the LE still cannot find any major evidence against him.

Also taken a TV does not means the killer want to stole the TV (we don't know if that TV is in the living room, or a TV in Leila's bedroom).
It could be the LE find some clues that the killing might take place near the TV, and they believe the TV might have some things that the laboratory can check such as fingerprints, dirts, or stuff from the killer's body that might leave behind.

Just my 2cents, hope this case solve soon. Who ever the killer is, and if he did this all by himself with no help, then he is good, very good. Hey, at least the dude able to hide all major evidence, and still have the police continue trying to hunt him down, and it almost 2 weeks already.

The chances of the brother did it, is not likely because news said Leila's was "barely alive" when LE come and take her on the ambulance. If it was the brother did it, I'm sure she would give some clues to the LE, it can be simply as pointing her finger at her brother (if it was he harm her), so I doubt it the brother that killed her. Weird case btw, almost 2 weeks and no major break through. So in my opinion the killer might have plan this killing Leila's plan out ahead, unlikely it is robbery gone bad; If it was then the killer must be Very Lucky or well experience robber, since he Know how hide evidence every well and get away so cleanly.

 

[cluciano63]

If LE has DNA and other evidence, the perp may not have done such a great job. Hoping the DNA can be matched soon.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Re: the 9-12 timeframe for the game...





Lol, well I'm just a LITTLE slow today!!...just got what you meant by this. I'm sorry--I can see why that was confusing. That's what I get for copy/pasting directly off my unedited timeline notes.

Here's a new version that hopefully makes more sense. Threw in a couple links, too.

4-27 Saturday

? – 11:30ish Family getting ready for LL game & leave sometime before 11:40 (3 LL ballparks 17+ miles away)

12ish Parents @ game ; 12yo sees intruder/calls parents

12ish Neighbor CL reports seeing dad with bloody shirt at edge of her driveway at “about noon” asking, “Have you seen anything?”
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

12:15 Parents call 911
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Suspects-ruled-out-in-slaying

12:18ish LE dispatcher calls 12 yo; girl has ‘severe’ injuries
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/...r-olds-murder/

12:20-30 Parents arrive home; Leila “rushed” to hospital (barely alive)
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_135af3fe-af98-11e2-a554-0019bb2963f4.html

12:55 Leila arrives at hospital
1:01 PM Leila pronounced dead
http://www.modbee.com/2013/04/28/2691097/calaveras-county-manhunt-continues.html#storylink=cpy

I know what the reports are, but I really don't believe she was conscious, I'm not even convinced she was alive. Based on the timeline above.

I'm confused by the timeline. Call times, parents arrival home time and emergency response time.

I'm confused by the calls to 911 as well as the call from dispatch to the home. I wish they would release them.

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[PoirotryInMotion]

I know what the reports are, but I really don't believe she was conscious, I'm not even convinced she was alive.


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I don't either; if she died from shock and hemorrhage from her wounds, she likely wasn't conscious or at least not verbal while rushed to the hospital--probably died in the ambulance (can't imagine they spent too much time at the house with her in her dire condition). I do have a MSM account where LE says he wasn't aware that she'd communicated anything before she died.

The timeline IS confusing. Guessing they're not releasing 911 calls/dispatcher tapes for a good reason.

 

[MsFacetious]

He refers to a singular German Wolf but then later says "they"

He may have a wolf and the rest of the pack may be regular canine dogs. That would/could involve quite a bit more barking I imagine.

I still find something off in his affect but that is simply MOO and I am not prepared to debate it because what struck me as off is not something that can be linked or easily explained as it is subjective (my own POV)

Honestly MY first thought was "dude, you realize the laws on wolves and wolf dogs in California are REALLY sketchy??? Might not want to advertise that you have one..." :seeya:

 

[itsreenw]

This is from another excellent set of links from Poirotryinmotion. It seems to imply to me that the boy was outside of the house at some point, only this time in pursuit of the intruder.

I would be stunned if a 12 year old was inspired to pursue an adult intruder, maybe if it were a teen I could see it. Especially one who was blood soaked-that part is inevitable I would think.

Good for him if he gave no thought to it and chased the intruder away.

Then there's this:

A manhunt is under way in northern California for a man suspected of stabbing an eight-year-old girl to death.
The youngster, named by officials as Leila Fowler, was found by her 12-year-old brother after he came face-to-face with an intruder at their home in the rural community of Valley Springs.

http://news.sky.com/story/1084100/manhunt-after-intruder-stabs-girl-8-at-home

 

[wwc02]

Someone here in the previous pages posted said that Leila's was stab 21 times that show the killer don't know how to kill.
I beg to differ, I don't see it that way. I see it as a big possibility of the killer enjoy to see Leila's painfully tortured to death as he stab her 17-21 times.

It would be difficult, for a physically capable person armed with a long blade, to inflict this many wounds, in anger, and not hit a vital structure. The wounds may have been intentionally placed or the blade short. Someone, in anger, could possibly aim for, and continually miss, the heart. Unlikely. In this case, suffocation may have caused death. As I understand it, the coroner reported shock; low BP. This may occur quickly or slowly depending on the particular wounds. The case from Davis three weeks earlier. There were wounds to the face. The intent, in Davis, was not rapid death.
ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Leila Fowler, 8, Fatally Stabbed in Valley Springs #2 --Manhunt Underway! - Page 14 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

http://davis.patch.com/articles/dav...k-into-calaveras-county-girl-s-stabbing-death
http://davis.patch.com/topics/Oliver+Northup
http://fox40.com/local-news/stories/2-found-dead-in-davis-home/

 

[MsFacetious]

That is one of the reasons I am still considering the idea that the two cases may be connected. :twocents:

 

[SCHMAE]

Hoping for news from LE today.
Please let this monster be caught !

 

[Elley Mae]

If they are wolves, that makes it even less likely that they typically bark anytime someone goes down the road. Not impossible, just highly unlikely.

Wolves do bark, just not in the same way dogs do or as often or for the same reasons.

If his animals are full wolves I believe him even less.

ETA you didn't cause me confusion PIM, I watched his video interview and thought he called them wolf-dogs. He may have started to say wolves and then changed it to dogs midthought.

ETAA just rewatched the video he calls it a German Wolf which is also known as the Eurasian Wolf (subspecies of the gray wolf). Which I take to mean he claims he has a full blooded Eurasian (or gray) wolf.

The wolf hybrids that I was around in the past did not bark. The male was close to 50/50, about 130 lbs, had alot of his mother in him, (husky). The second one was too wolfie for me, she would be playful one day then want to stalk you the next. Neither one barked, just some howling.

What I liked about the interview was the view. It led me to google and see where the wolf/dog man lives. He has a dang good view from the back of his home to the whole front of the fowler home.

Then came the comment that the 12 year old is the babysitter. How does he know this? He must do alot of watching. jmo

 

[tlcya]

I fell asleep last night thinking about this case. The lack of screams or sounds of a struggle, and the conversation some were having about brother possibly being immersed in a video game. The following thoughts:

I agree with posters who've said if the brother was playing a video game and immersed in it he could have been so focused he did not hear any sounds of someone moving quietly about the house.

I have seen it reported (BTW the reporting lately on all the cases I follow has been sketchy IMO) that the brother was in the house but in a separate room. I think he may have been in his room playing video games. That would align with what I know of 12 yr old boys (sons, lots of nephews, etc) and their love of their games.

Given that a bed appears to have been removed as evidence, I suspect Leila was in her bedroom as well.

If a grown male perp encountered and 8 yr old girl, I do not think it would be unusual that he could quickly subdue a smaller child by physically pushing her down onto her bed, placing his hand over her mouth and sitting or otherwise using his body weight to restrain her lower half (feet, legs, lower torso) and stabbing at will.

I hope she was not stabbed 21 times

I fear she was.

 

[The Cheese]

Nothing on Twitter, Google News, or Nixle. Will keep checking.

Prayers for Leila's family.