GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[IHAVENOCLUE]

If he had physical injuries on him they would have been most likely on his hands and arms, yet we have seen no wounds/scratches nor bandages in photos and videos from the vigil. (Did anyone spot any?)

Also, the parents would have known immediately, and they didn't seem to suspect anything.

Third, had he displayed such wounds LE had most likely taken him into custody immediately and not waited - what is it? 2 weeks? - putting other family members and the public at risk.

No I don't think he had any physical wounds at all. Which is, given the likelihood that you would somehow hurt yourself too when you stab someone 21 times, quite astonishing.

Not only was this a sophisticated and efficient attack but he also cleaned up completely after himself, fooling everyone. The only thing that was messy was his story.

It is very rare that a person so young becomes a first time offender in such a heineous crime and executes it so "well", usually there is a long build up of lesser crimes before it becomes murder. (sorry, don't mean to sound cold, just trying to look at the facts, as we know them)

I'm just baffled by the whole story. It almost sounds "too bad to be true".

All.good,questions..

I wonder if he was an avid hunter... And was adept at cleaning and preparing the animals, too...

this may be one reason why he was able to commit the murder with minimal evidence left behind... And minimal self-inflicted wounds...

I wonder if he wore gloves...

Just speculation....:dunno:

 

[Perodicticus potto]

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric.

I'm thinking that maybe a 12-year-old capable of doing something like this should be hospitalised. :sick:

 

[Starry Night]

That boy looks psychotic/catatonic or on drugs in his photos. There are a lot of bad drugs out there that cause psychotic reactions and behavior. Like K 2...........

Synthetic cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I say don't try him as an adult yet..............

 

[eileenhawkeye]

That boy looks psychotic/catatonic or on drugs in his photos. There are a lot of bad drugs out there that cause psychotic reactions and behavior. Like K 2...........



I say don't try him as an adult yet..............

I think the parents would know if he was on drugs during the family outing?

 

[michmi]

I'm amazed by the number of people in the news comment section who say this boy should be tried as an adult. I have no idea if he can be rehabilitated, but DJJ will have 13 years to try.

What IF did is the epitome of evil, I would really like to understand his background and the lead up to the murder. But because he is a JV, I think we will not learn much.

I'm willing to bet rehabilitation is not possible, but we'll see.

I really don't give a flip ***why***, is there really any excuse that could be given where you could see from his point of view how it would be sensible to him? Not to me.

I used to believe most people were able to change, but with how much sicker the world is now, I'm of the opinion we cut our losses, even with the younger ones, and lock 'em away, hopefully for life.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Okay, he can move to an adult facility when he turns 18....

Yes, exactly .. let him begin his incarceration with other minors then move him to adult prison when he's 18. I'm not trying to be barbaric, I just think we have to protect the innocents, Leila is one too many, naturally nobody knew he was a killer until he killed, but now that we do know precautions must be taken. And 12 is plenty old enough to understand the consequences, from my understanding she was killed in her room, so therefore he went and fetched a weapon. People can't even be diagnosed with a PD until they're 18 .. he could be released before anyone even knew what was really going on with him, he could be released with the exact same issues and triggers and kill again.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Well, he can't be put away in jail for life. He WILL be released. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I am skeptical about rehabilitation, but you have to try. You can say you don't care what happens to him in jail/juvy but if he is raped or abused in there, he will be worse when he gets released, and he is going to be released one day.

 

[Starry Night]

I think the parents would know if he was on drugs during the family outing?

They may or may not-a 12 year old approaching adolescence is moody. A parent might have suspicions but it is hard to prove sometimes. With all the family dynamics going on- and the distractions of a larger family....who knows. I am just trying to point out that there are some mighty dangerous drugs going around that parents may not know of. Until it is too late.

I have heard horror stories from my younger DD telling me of things and occasions I didn't want to hear about. Some of the people she hung around with are in prison for life-from age 18, 19- for being on sprees from dangerous drugs. Of course the drug-taking starts at around age 13 or so-escalates-these youngsters get invited to parties by older people. I mean-the drug trade relies on recruiting of new users. So they rope them in at an early age.

I am not a social worker nor LE-I just see how it can happen.

Parents today cannot afford to be non-suspicious. Once that child turns 12 or 13-especially 14- and the attitude changes-THAT'S when you start stalking your child and their friends and activities.

Just my opinion.

 

[Lordeebee]

How long after the wounds were inflicted did he wait to make the call to his parents? Could this be one piece of evidence - that the medical examiners could determine by Leila's wounds and time of death that the call came much later?

Would also like to know whether it was determined that the father arrived before the EMT's or police?

 

[Donjeta]

How long after the wounds were inflicted did he wait to make the call to his parents? Could this be one piece of evidence - that the medical examiners could determine by Leila's wounds and time of death that the call came much later?

Would also like to know whether it was determined that the father arrived before the EMT's or police?

Lawson said a man who she believed to be Barney Fowler, Leila’s father, came to the edge of her driveway.

“He was white as a ghost,” she said. “He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

I think the police probably wouldn't let him do that if they arrived first.

 

[jjenny]

Well, he can't be put away in jail for life. He WILL be released. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I am skeptical about rehabilitation, but you have to try. You can say you don't care what happens to him in jail/juvy but if he is raped or abused in there, he will be worse when he gets released, and he is going to be released one day.

Yes. He is too young to be tried as an adult. It is a fact that even he is convicted, he will be out as a young man.

 

[MustlyLurking]

Or SHE kept a knife in her room.

LE has NOT said the murder took place in the bedroom. She may not have been killed in a bedroom. Remember that the flat screen TV and vacuum were also taken into evidence. So, it may have occurred elsewhere, near the TV, and the body may have been moved to the bedroom. The mattress may have been collected to give evidence that her body was moved. The vacuum could give evidence of a cleanup/coverup. That would completely contradict the narrative provided by the brother.

My point is that LE has revealed none of the detailed facts. They cannot, without jeopardizing the case. And, since he will be tried as a juvenile, the public may never get the details.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

If Leila was stabbed in her bedroom, wouldn't that mean there was some premeditation involved? I assume that the knives are not kept in Leila's room so either they had an argument, he left the room, and came back with a knife, or he got a knife, went to Leila's room and started stabbing her. If she was stabbed in her room, I don't see how it could've been done in the heat of the moment/rage because the brother had to actually go get the knife, and walk back to the room with it. That gives him time to think, and he was obviously thinking he was going to stab her when he got back to the room.

Depends where they were when it started, what they were doing at the time. If they argued in the kitchen, he could have grabbed the knife, she ran, and he chased her upstairs. The chase may even have been what got him really riled up.

With him being a juvenile we'll probably never know for sure.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric. I understand there's a level of confusion and shock here, but laws protecting juveniles exist for a reason- they simply do not function the same way you or I do, no matter what anyone believes they 'see in their eyes'. The US is one of the only nations in the world willing to impose incredibly harsh punishments on juveniles.

Here are some statistics for juveniles held in adult facilities:
5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than youth held in juvenile detention centers
2 times more likely to be beaten by staff than youth held in juvenile detention centers
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide than the general adolescent population
7.7 times more likely to commit suicide than adolescents in juvenile detention centers

I can't imagine wishing that on anyone. JMHO.

I not shocked, nor am I confused. I knew it was the brother.

I think they need to start building places to house kids that commit murder. He doesn't belong in juvenile detention.

He doesn't belong in a RTC. And he doesn't belong in an adult prison until he reaches the age of 18

All IMO



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[MustlyLurking]

All.good,questions..

I wonder if he was an avid hunter... And was adept at cleaning and preparing the animals, too...

this may be one reason why he was able to commit the murder with minimal evidence left behind... And minimal self-inflicted wounds...

I wonder if he wore gloves...

Just speculation....:dunno:

Minimal evidence? There are several large bags of evidence in the crime scene photos. And, LE came back with a rental truck to haul away much more.

Also, you are making a huge leap to try to connect hunting and murder.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The LA Times said he did...



http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...rs-12yearold-brother-20130512,0,1295706.story

My understanding he called his parents, they called 911 then dispatch call the boys home.


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[believe09]

Respectfully, I think you guys may be attributing way too much to a 12 year old. Either the family chose to believe him or they were watching him too. jmvho. In any case, the story was nonsensical from the start and we all twigged that. It seemed extremely likely it was someone inside of the house. We may never know what set him off, but it almost doesnt matter, at least to me. It is a double tragedy.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, exactly .. let him begin his incarceration with other minors then move him to adult prison when he's 18. I'm not trying to be barbaric, I just think we have to protect the innocents, Leila is one too many, naturally nobody knew he was a killer until he killed, but now that we do know precautions must be taken. And 12 is plenty old enough to understand the consequences, from my understanding she was killed in her room, so therefore he went and fetched a weapon. People can't even be diagnosed with a PD until they're 18 .. he could be released before anyone even knew what was really going on with him, he could be released with the exact same issues and triggers and kill again.

Then what about the other juveniles in detention? You know like the kid that was caught smoking pot 6 times? Or the kid that stole a car... Hardly the same as brutally coldly and premeditatedly murdering your own 8 yr old sister! He's a danger to them too!




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[Linda7NJ]

Well, he can't be put away in jail for life. He WILL be released. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I am skeptical about rehabilitation, but you have to try. You can say you don't care what happens to him in jail/juvy but if he is raped or abused in there, he will be worse when he gets released, and he is going to be released one day.

How do you get any worse than killing a little girl by stabbing her 21 times???


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[eileenhawkeye]

So news article from CNN about what Crystal wrote on FB so I guess we can discuss it now:

Except they didn't do enough research to learn Crystal is the stepmother but okay....

With one child dead and the second arrested in her death, a California woman pleaded for a bit of privacy on Mother's Day.
Crystal Waters posted a brief message on Facebook on Sunday, the day after sheriff's investigators in Calaveras County announced the arrest of her 12-year-old son on a homicide charge in the death of her 8-year-old daughter, Leila Fowler.
"I don't have much to say but thank you to those who are standing by us in this devastating time for our family," Waters said in a brief post on Facebook. "And thank you for respecting our privacy during this time. We need a little space. Happy mothers day to all."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/12/us/california-stabbing-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

"A California mother pleads for privacy...so here is a quote from her personal FB page!"