GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[carmenugt]

I see a lot of comments about this child being a psychopath or sociopath (antisocial personality disorder). Given what sounds like "rage" during the attack, isn't it also possible that he was very angry about something in relation to his sister? For example, was he jealous? Could he have felt threatened by her? For example, did she have something on him? It seems to me that many types of people commit murder ... not only those with antisocial personality disorder. Was he resentful? For example, was he the live-in babysitter such that he could not do things that he wanted to do?

I agree, this kid is not a psychopath. He was attending school. I could believe sociopathic tendencies IF we had eidence of behavioral problems.

Here is an article on Supreme Court rulings in children sentenced to death and/or life without parole.

http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I agree, this kid is not a psychopath. He was attending school. I could believe sociopathic tendencies IF we had eidence of behavioral problems.

Here is an article on Supreme Court rulings in children sentenced to death and/or life without parole.

http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

I don't think we know enough about him yet, if the police find that he is responsible for the animal mutilation then that make psychopathy/ASPD highly likely. Although that diagnosis is usually reserved until someone is 18.

 

[blue22]

]I agree, this kid is not a psychopath. He was attending school.[/B] I could believe sociopathic tendencies IF we had eidence of behavioral problems.

Here is an article on Supreme Court rulings in children sentenced to death and/or life without parole.

http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

Out of curiosity, why does it matter that he went to school? Psychopaths go to school, also!

ETA: I'm not suggesting he IS a psychopath. Would he be too young to diagnose, anyway?

 

[The Cheese]

About the knife. It seems odd that someone charged with murder would also be charged with using a weapon to commit the murder, unless the weapon was something extraordinary. A knife does not seem all that unusual, to me unless it was a sword or machete. I don't recall reading any specifics about the weapon in the Sheriff's briefings, or press reports. That and the evidence team collecting firewood from the garage make me wonder... Here goes... Sorry... ax? hatchet? Those would be extraordinary weapons.

Possible?

This states the petition specified a knife. I've found this reporter, Joel Metzger, to be reliable FWIW. His articles come out slower than the other media, and he seems to research for accuracy before publishing. :twocents:

Calaveras County District Attorney Barbara Yook is representing the county on this case, and her petition to the judge charges Isaiah with second degree murder along with a special allegation that he personally used a knife in commission of the crime.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_e06c961e-bda2-11e2-8813-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Elley Mae]

This states the petition specified a knife. I've found this reporter, Joel Metzger, to be reliable FWIW. His articles come out slower than the other media, and he seems to research for accuracy before publishing. :twocents:

Calaveras County District Attorney Barbara Yook is representing the county on this case, and her petition to the judge charges Isaiah with second degree murder along with a special allegation that he personally used a knife in commission of the crime.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_e06c961e-bda2-11e2-8813-001a4bcf887a.html

:banghead:bbm Honestly why did that word have to be used? Personally

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I have just checked Fidel Taylor's FB page. He has shared 911 call and there
are some comments there..

 

[blue22]

:banghead:bbm Honestly why did that word have to be used? Personally

Isn't it said stabbing is usually a very personal crime? Does make it more chilling, though.

 

[tlneedham]

The "special allegation" struck me as odd too and while I'm not a lawyer, doing some searches on California's penal code led me to this:

California penal code section 12022 (b) (1) Any person who personally uses a deadly or dangerous weapon in the commission of a felony or attempted felony shall be punished by an additional and consecutive term of imprisonment pursuant in the state prison for one year, unless use of a deadly or dangerous weapon is an element of that offense.

So the special allegation means they can add a year to his sentence if convicted. And I guess it makes sense since some murders can be committed without a dangerous weapon. (eg strangulation, drowning)

But now I'm confused about why the dangerous weapon wouldn't be an element of that offense,and therefore, not eligible for the special allegation.

 

[tlneedham]

:banghead:bbm Honestly why did that word have to be used? Personally

Bad editing? LOL

"Personally" is rather redundant unless people are thinking he put someone else up to it.

 

[tlcya]

I have just checked Fidel Taylor's FB page. He has shared 911 call and there
are some comments there..

This is probably a dumb question, but who is Fidel Taylor?

 

[blue22]

Bad editing? LOL

"Personally" is rather redundant unless people are thinking he put someone else up to it.

Oops...haha! I read that totally differently. "Personal," as in...some serious baggage and personal feelings behind it. Silly me :blushing:

 

[chinacat67]

:banghead:bbm Honestly why did that word have to be used? Personally

My guess is it's legalese---there is an "enhancement" statute for a possible sentence for a felony like involved here:

Any person who personally uses a deadly or dangerous
weapon in the commission of a felony or attempted felony shall be
punished by an additional and consecutive term of imprisonment
pursuant in the state prison for one year, unless use of a deadly or
dangerous weapon is an element of that offense.



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[Ghostwheel]

Caught this one on tlcya's list (THX!) of links to stories:

On the day Leila died, Don Melon was out front watering his roses. He has a clear view of the Fowler home from the garden beds near his driveway.

“All of a sudden ambulance, paramedics, fire trucks show up, and I say ‘What the hell is going on over there?’”

Shortly after paramedics arrived, Melon said a man drove up in a white SUV with what looked like blood soaked into his shirt.

“A few minutes later a guy comes barreling down the road, jumps out, and hollers, ‘Did you see a Mexican come through here?’ Somebody just stabbed my daughter. His T-shirt was covered in something orange-colored. He was about 6-foot tall, stocky and short black hair.”

Melon initially thought this was Leila’s father, but after seeing a picture of Barney Fowler, he realized he didn’t think it was the same person.

“He (Barney) has a goatee. This guy didn’t have one. Who was this guy?”

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_f678ab20-befe-11e2-ad13-001a4bcf887a.html
BBM: That's what I want to know. Don Melon says "Nobody came out that door." and it is gospel to the reporters, but when he says some strange guy drove by in a van asking about someone who just stabbed his daughter, and it WASN'T Barney Fowler, you would think someone would be checking on that.

Who was this guy? What if it was the real killer? Just a thought....

 

[Linda7NJ]

:wave: Otto

I agree, we have no reason to believe he might be a sociopath or have any specific diagnosis outside of reports that LE is investigating reports of animal mutilations.

It is equally possible that this act was not related to any psychopathology and that it was an aberrant act of rage spurred by some unknown circumstance.

IMO there are many reasons to consider the possibility.




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[eileenhawkeye]

Caught this one on tlcya's list (THX!) of links to stories:



http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_f678ab20-befe-11e2-ad13-001a4bcf887a.html
BBM: That's what I want to know. Don Melon says "Nobody came out that door." and it is gospel to the reporters, but when he says some strange guy drove by in a van asking about someone who just stabbed his daughter, and it WASN'T Barney Fowler, you would think someone would be checking on that.

Who was this guy? What if it was the real killer? Just a thought....

I don't think IF knows how to drive a car.

But in all honesty, if there was an intruder, I would think he would be gone by the time the emergency vehicles arrived. Don lived within sight of the Fowlers' front door, so where did the car come from? It couldn't have been parked close to the house, so did the killer walk to his car, and then drive back to the neighborhood to scream to a neighbor?

Anyway, IF not telling his sister and her boyfriend on the phone that Leila had been stabbed tells me there was no intruder. Why would he delay medical care to her?

 

[CHERIE.T]

If IF committed the crime he likely delayed treatment for Leila for one reason only...?He didnt want her to recover and tell the truth.

 

[ozgirl70]

I think if it all happened super fast, then DM could easily be mistaken about whether the first man had a goatee or not. I imagine the whole encounter only took a few seconds and was most likely not direct face to face contact iykwim.

The description of the blood covered shirt matches the description, given by the other neighbour, of BF.

It's pretty obvious to me that the Fowlers were at the house before the paramedics. I wonder how long beforehand they got there? Anyone have a link to what time the paramedics arrived at the house? I believe we have estimated the Fowlers time of arrival to be around 12.23 pm, going by the distance they needed to travel from the game.

I'm not convinced that the older sister and her bf were with CW and BF when the 911 call was made. It's very possible that IF called the sister, who then called the parents, who in turn called 911.
All with no mention of poor Leila's injuries.

:moo::moo:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think if it all happened super fast, then DM could easily be mistaken about whether the first man had a goatee or not. I imagine the whole encounter only took a few seconds and was most likely not direct face to face contact iykwim.

The description of the blood covered shirt matches the description, given by the other neighbour, of BF.

It's pretty obvious to me that the Fowlers were at the house before the paramedics. I wonder how long beforehand they got there? Anyone have a link to what time the paramedics arrived at the house? I believe we have estimated the Fowlers time of arrival to be around 12.23 pm, going by the distance they needed to travel from the game.

I'm not convinced that the older sister and her bf were with CW and BF when the 911 call was made. It's very possible that IF called the sister, who then called the parents, who in turn called 911.
All with no mention of poor Leila's injuries.

:moo::moo:

It's interesting to me that the only reason Don says it wasn't Barney is due to the goatee. That tells me that the man must have looked pretty similar to Barney.

We still don't know the time that the paramedics arrived. The only times we know are Crystal called 911 at 12:13, and some sources are saying she was still at the game during the call. The ambulance arrived at the hospital at 12:55. All times in-between are unknown right now.

I agree with you that it is possible that the older sister and her boyfriend were somewhere else. Could it have gone like this?

IF called his sister (who is with her boyfriend)
He tells them that there's been a break-in
They call Crystal and tell her what IF said
Crystal calls 911 from the game
Barney hops in his car to drive home

However....why would the sister and her boyfriend call Crystal for her to call 911? Why couldn't they call 911 themselves?

 

[winterrose]

I found that Don gave alot of good info, he said noone came out of the house while he was watering his roses while an intruder was suppose to be in the house. He said all was quiet, he does live a little bit aways, but can see the house.

He said he would see them all playing outside, they always got along from what he saw, the twelve year old was always watching the younger ones. He said when the ambulance pulled up, I believe the white suv did, and the man with short black hair, probably the daughter's bf asked him if he had seen a Mexican.

The only thing that wouldn't make sense is if the bf said it was his daughter, he was probably running around looking, possibly said something about Leila and Don just misunderstood him. If he pointed to Barney or the house, he could have said his daughter, meaning Barney. Another neighbor said Barney was in her driveway asking, so I'm assuming they both were. Other than that, he has alot of good info, and I found him very credible.

 

[katydid23]

IMO there are many reasons to consider the possibility.




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I can think of 21 reasons.