GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[tlneedham]

I'm fairly certain I read that she's either 18 or 19.

OK well there goes the old age theory. LOL

 

[QuestionMark]

When looking for reportings of animal mutilation in the area I found this: http://myvalleysprings.com/pdfs/2012/Dead Bald Eagle at Hogan likely mutilated_VSN_10_31_12.pdf

Hogan is close by right?

Again, I'm not saying this is at all related.... Jmo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When looking for reportings of animal mutilation in the area I found this: http://myvalleysprings.com/pdfs/2012/Dead Bald Eagle at Hogan likely mutilated_VSN_10_31_12.pdf

Hogan is close by right?

Again, I'm not saying this is at all related.... Jmo

Wrinkle Cove is about 4.3 miles from the Fowler home. The family did have a boat, and it wouldn't surprise me if they used it on New Hogan Lake. However, I would think that if IF mutilated any animals, it wouldn't be when his family was around. Yet I don't know how he would get to Wrinkle Cove by himself. Unless he was with a friend who didn't want to "tattle" on him? Since the family has a boat, it seems there's a good chance IF would be familiar with the local lake.

 

[gitana1]

IMO it's not about punishment, it's about rehabilitation. He will be sent off to a secure therapeutic residential center...


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Not likely. We just had a kid who murdered his abusive dad at age 10 sentenced to juvie rather than any form of rehab. Then to the adult prison until age 25.

Here's the exact line about it:



If it is true, we should find out soon enough.

http://fox40.com/2013/05/15/investigators-look-into-past-of-leila-fowlers-brother/#ixzz2TaIC4i4n

Whoa.

I'm not labeling him anything. We know so very little.

Here's some interesting studies on juveniles and psychopathy.

http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-006X.72.4.636

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...a=X&ei=C6CWUfKKNoPC4AOCx4CYCA&ved=0CCgQgQMwAA


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Thank you for those links. Everyone should read them.

IMO, sometimes people are made "defective" by the turmoil in their lives.


Or wanted to acknowledge them. I've known people that can't see who and what their child really is. Heard the old saying Love Is Blind? I really think in some people it is.


It's true that's the way it's supposed to work, and a Judge will tell you that but a call to the local police station in my area for not being able to have visitation as ordered will get them to tell you it's a civil matter and they'll tell you to get in touch with the prosecuting attorneys office. When some people have done that (again in a county I'm very familiar with) they have been instructed to hire an attorney. Some people do not have the money to go back to court and Legal Aid in our area does not help with these types of situations. Sometimes it becomes an ongoing problem with as soon as visitation is ordered, when someone does have the money to fight for their court ordered visitation, the custodial parent will allow it for a time and then stop it again.
It's true, anyone can say anything but that doesn't make it true, and that goes for all people everywhere, not just in this case or just the one you named.

MOO

This is totally true. My clients almost never get help assisting with custody violations. They are told to go to court or given a sheet of paper that they themselves fill out, as a custodial violation report, which has zero effect.

 

[gitana1]

OK well there goes the old age theory. LOL

I think it's just a small town with some quirky people who want attention.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

What are some unanswered questions you have about the case?

Mine are:

1. What were the previous "calls of services" to LE from the home?
2. When did the knife incident at school happen?
3. Was IF behind any local animal mutilations?
4. Did the family take more than one car to the game?
5. What was the normal Saturday routine for the family during the season?
6. When did IF finally tell someone that Leila had been stabbed?
7. Who was the first person that IF told about the break-in?
8. Did anyone from the family get home before LE?
9. Did Barney call LE?
10. What was the exact car arrangements when the family was driving back? Were the sister and her boyfriend in the same car as Crystal?
11. Did the neighbor really see Barney Fowler covered in blood?
12. Why did the other neighbor recant her story?
13. Is Don's story about the guy in the truck true?
14. What did IF tell the 911 dispatcher?
15. Did LE find the knife used to stab Leila?

 

[Elainera]

OT helpful hint since so many new folks are following this thread.

When you are following a case it is easier to locate if it is on your subscription list. Your subscription list is the list of all threads you follow, either just lurking or posting.

There are several ways to get a thread onto your subscription list. One is by simply posting in that thread (as danzn16 did above). the other is to select the button on the top tool bar of this thread titled "thread tools" and selecting subscribe on the pull down menu.

Thank you tlcya. That answers my earlier question.

arggg. Most cases we are foiled with too few witnesses.

This one has too many that all seem to conflict with one another.

What IS it about this crazy case?

Sorry not expecting anyone to really have a good answer - just frustrated as all get out.

I would like to see all three witness accounts side by side. No time to find links now - anybody?

It is with keen interest that I'm following this case. I have a child with Intermittent Explosive Disorder, and while I've learned to read her well and help her manage her emotions, stories like this scare me. My daughter has been violent and destructive in the past, and has frightened her siblings. But other parents tell us that's just normal sibling stuff and brush it off... I don't know. It wasn't the norm in my house growing up, and I don't want it to be the norm for my children.

My daughter has threatened to stab her brother with a pencil, and has told her sister she intended to suffocate her. Afterward, my daughter claimed to have been joking. She has good weeks and even months, and has done very, very well this last year, but there are still incidents like those I've mentioned, that concern me.

Our family is fairly traditional and I am with my kids all but 1-2 hrs/day, at most. But I can see where unsettling "warning signs" could get brushed aside by well meaning friends, by teachers who say how the child is an angel at school, and by the parents themselves in the course of stressful family dynamics and a lot of young children. (Not bashing large families - I have a large family and there are benefits and drawbacks.)

JenB, thank you for your input! I can imagine that it must be confusing and scary at times. I think you have the right attitude, keeping an open mind and being watchful.

 

[Elley Mae]

I just want to make a few comments.

I do know that when viewing google maps from above you will see or not see things that you will see when viewing from (street view). As to the boats that are visible at street view and reading that the family had just been in the home for a matter of months, up to a year, the boats could belong to the previous renters. No telling when the image was taken. Then in reference to what is visible on the property boats/cars etc could belong to the owners of the property and not the renters, I noticed there are two driveway entrances to the property. jmo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I just want to make a few comments.

I do know that when viewing google maps from above you will see or not see things that you will see when viewing from (street view). As to the boats that are visible at street view and reading that the family had just been in the home for a matter of months, up to a year, the boats could belong to the previous renters. No telling when the image was taken. Then in reference to what is visible on the property boats/cars etc could belong to the owners of the property and not the renters, I noticed there are two driveway entrances to the property. jmo

On Street View, you can see two (possibly three) boats, and at the bottom it says the picture is from August 2012. I believe the family was living there at the time.

Would the owners of the house leave their boats if they weren't living there? One of them is parked right in front of the open garage. And since we know Barney's job dealt with fixing boats, it seems pretty likely to me that those boats are either owned by Barney, or he is repairing them for someone else.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

On Street View, you can see two (possibly three) boats, and at the bottom it says the picture is from August 2012. I believe the family was living there at the time.

Would the owners of the house leave their boats if they weren't living there? One of them is parked right in front of the open garage. And since we know Barney's job dealt with fixing boats, it seems pretty likely to me that those boats are either owned by Barney, or he is repairing them for someone else.

There's a boat parked in front of the garage while the authorities are searching the house and removing evidence--don't even have to use dated google maps to see it. See photo #9:

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news...19994522/-/ifmmypz/-/index.html#ixzz2SBrovQpI

Also, photo #2 seems to show another, white boat in the far right side.

 

[tlcya]

Was a boat used in the commission of this crime?

Sorry, that was fascetious of me, but I don't get why the focus is on the boat. It has no relevance to the case that I can see.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Was a boat used in the commission of this crime?

Sorry, that was facetious of me, but I don't get why the focus is on the boat. It has no relevance to the case that I can see.

I don't either--kinda like discussing what breed the neighbor's dog was. Just trying to be helpful to those that care.

ETA: (I think at least one poster was speculating in here if the boat may have been used in disposing of the murder weapon.)

 

[tlcya]

touche PIM, lol. So hard to discuss this case.

I guess the boat and the dogs are better than the :nono: topics.

Not sure if anybody will get this reference but it is a joke on me

Feral Pigs. That is all.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

touche PIM, lol. So hard to discuss this case.

I guess the boat and the dogs are better than the :nono: topics.

Not sure if anybody will get this reference but it is a joke on me

Feral Pigs. That is all.

Lol. You're pretty loveable, ya know, tlcya?

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

What are some unanswered questions you have about the case?

Mine are:

1. What were the previous "calls of services" to LE from the home?
2. When did the knife incident at school happen?
3. Was IF behind any local animal mutilations?
4. Did the family take more than one car to the game?
5. What was the normal Saturday routine for the family during the season?
6. When did IF finally tell someone that Leila had been stabbed?
7. Who was the first person that IF told about the break-in?
8. Did anyone from the family get home before LE?
9. Did Barney call LE?
10. What was the exact car arrangements when the family was driving back? Were the sister and her boyfriend in the same car as Crystal?
11. Did the neighbor really see Barney Fowler covered in blood?
12. Why did the other neighbor recant her story?
13. Is Don's story about the guy in the truck true?
14. What did IF tell the 911 dispatcher?
15. Did LE find the knife used to stab Leila?

My critical question is

16.Why did Leila and IF didn't go to the ballfield that day? (Esp.Leila ?)

a-Was Leila ill and was IF made to look after her being the full sibling ?
b-Was it anything abt the car was full and they were the ones who were to not come..?
c-Was that a kind of punishment from the day before ?
d-Was that because of a conflict abt their/ his relations with C. ?
Because usually children do not like dad's girlfriends esp when there is bad wordings at home abt their bio moms..How were their relatins actually?

Just my opinions

 

[Tennlyn]

touche PIM, lol. So hard to discuss this case.

I guess the boat and the dogs are better than the :nono: topics.

Not sure if anybody will get this reference but it is a joke on me

Feral Pigs. That is all.

Are there paddleboats?! :scared:

 

[otto]

I see a lot of comments about this child being a psychopath or sociopath (antisocial personality disorder). Given what sounds like "rage" during the attack, isn't it also possible that he was very angry about something in relation to his sister? For example, was he jealous? Could he have felt threatened by her? For example, did she have something on him? It seems to me that many types of people commit murder ... not only those with antisocial personality disorder. Was he resentful? For example, was he the live-in babysitter such that he could not do things that he wanted to do?

 

[MissJ]

A. LE will not make the custodial parent give the child up for visitation. That is considered a civil issue, not criminal. They go with the decision of the custodial parent. Their suggestion for remedy is to take the custodial parent to court.

B. Not everyone can afford to hire a lawyer and go to court. Yes, there is legal aid. But in most places legal aid is understaffed and overworked. They have waiting lists, and only operate under certain criteria.

C. And just because it isn't allowed to withhold visitation or child support, because of not receiving the other doesn't mean it isn't done. It is done quite frequently, by both men and women.

Respectfully, in many places if there is a court order for visitation LE WILL get involved. My family member was told "send the child with Dad or we take you to jail". But that may not be everywhere.:twocents:

 

[tlcya]

:wave: Otto

I agree, we have no reason to believe he might be a sociopath or have any specific diagnosis outside of reports that LE is investigating reports of animal mutilations.

It is equally possible that this act was not related to any psychopathology and that it was an aberrant act of rage spurred by some unknown circumstance.

 

[Elley Mae]

:wave: Otto

I agree, we have no reason to believe he might be a sociopath or have any specific diagnosis outside of reports that LE is investigating reports of animal mutilations.

It is equally possible that this act was not related to any psychopathology and that it was an aberrant act of rage spurred by some unknown circumstance.

So very true,

It could be as simple as LF was the one that told on IF for having a knife at school.
It could be that he was made to stay home with LF because of something she did wrong.
It could be that they both did not eat all their vegetables at dinner the night before and where not allowed to go to the game the next day.
It could be any number of things that didn't go IF's way.

I do wonder if the knife that was taken from IF was returned to the parents, or did school keep it.
Then I want to know if the parents gave it back to IF.
If they did give it back to him, was he able to produce it?

jmo