GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[Cappuccino]

Examining possible causes to a crime, or what led up to it, is not at all the same thing as excusing it. And while I give full credit to anyone from a turbulent or abusive background who grew up fine, that doesn't mean it can't be a contributing factor to violence in other children from similar backgrounds. Not everyone reacts the same to similar situations.

 

[Gardenlady]

JMO but to excuse anyone who kills because they live in a turbulent life is a discredit to those of us who have survived such a life. Many of us actually prosper. There is something very wrong with a 12 year old who even thinks of killing and its not his home life. Some mental illness is biological, if in fact he is mentally ill. I was the oldest of six children left to care for them while both parents worked. I resented it but it made me a super responsible care taker in my professional life. Never once did I ever consider hurting anyone. I endured other abuse that is too horrible to discuss. A turbulent life did not make this child kill. I know many, many people like me so I have experience to back my opinion up. Still JMO

But that's you. You are uniquely yourself, born with your own unique genetic makeup, and living in your own unique environment and set of circumstances. You cannot extrapolate from your unique experience and say that because you never turned out a certain way, no one else could or would have either.

A person with a different genetic makeup, a different personality, a different beginning, might, in the same environment, have gone on to perpetuate abuse, live a chaotic life, engage in criminal behavior, or perhaps had issues of substances abuse.

It in no way takes away, or discredits what you have achieved in your own life, by recognizing that others were not able to do what you did.

 

[Shwalt00]

I'm not sure how the lawyer will play this out in court, also wondering if the rest of the court proceedings will be public, seems they might be. According to the neighbor IF was always watching the younger kids, not sure if he was angry about staying home with Leila that day, or if they wanted to.

I'm wondering when he found out CW is pregnant again, could that have been a factor if he was caretaker of the little ones? One friend said he was protective over Leila, so what happened that day, how was it different? Maybe it wasn't, you never know how a person acts in private and I can't get over his demeanor at the vigils. There's so many factors the lawyer can go with, interesting he has a PI investigating, also.

I was also thinking about the neighbor who said he was watering roses and never saw anyone leave the house, he couldn't see all around the house, though. IF could have went out the opposite way from what he saw. Maybe something happened when the neighbor wasn't outside, it's not been said when the family left for the game. A friend said CW worked the concession stand, so maybe they had to leave earlier than the game started.

I thought that it was discussed on another thread that she wasn't actually pregnant. The person, who read the comments under one of her photos ,was mistaken. People were actually congratulating her for her pregnancy from when she was pregnant with her last child. Does that ring a bell, to anyone??

I tried to look for that in previous threads but can't find it.Has it been CONFIRMED that she is in fact pregnant??

 

[winterrose]

I thought that it was discussed on another thread that she wasn't actually pregnant. The person, who read the comments under one of her photos ,was mistaken. People were actually congratulating her for her pregnancy from when she was pregnant with her last child. Does that ring a bell, to anyone??

I tried to look for that in previous threads but can't find it.Has it been CONFIRMED that she is in fact pregnant??

I couldn't find it either and the fb page is gone now. I think if LE has concrete evidence, this will all be a none issue. I can't see the parents wanting him around the other kids if they know for a fact he did this to little Leila. He'll be out when he's 25, I believe, and the only thing that can be done is try to get him less time.

 

[tlcya]

got it. Bio mom going on national tv to reveal family dispute. Okey dokey. CW being on FB doing so, not allowed and speaks volumes about her.

 

[winterrose]

gitana1 I love your posts, you're good. I would hire you in a heartbeat.

 

[winterrose]

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013...says-not-finding-killer-makes-her-loss-worse/

It seemed to me she was saying how devastated she is this happened and she doesn't understand what happened. She's defending her son here. The reporter said PR said the custody dispute drove a wedge between them and she was denied going to the funeral. PR never said that in this interview. That might not have been something she wanted the reporter to say publicly and why there was never a part two to the interview. This was a woman who had just lost a daughter two weeks before and the only parent I've seen or heard physically traumatized in photos and this video.

Edit...Not saying the other one isn't at all, just saying there's some negative attitude about her not having custody.

 

[mamabear5]

I studied the FB page prior to it being deleted and I'm pretty sure the possible pregnancy that people were referring to was early last year. I think it was for the youngest sibling who appears to be about 18 months old.

I tried to look for that in previous threads but can't find it.Has it been CONFIRMED that she is in fact pregnant??[/QUOTE]

 

[gitana1]

got it. Bio mom going on national tv to reveal family dispute. Okey dokey. CW being on FB doing so, not allowed and speaks volumes about her.

No, that's not it. The fact that both women are discussing the other parent publicly in a negative context- well the bio mom didn't specifically, but she did allude to it - proves there is a problem there.

 

[packerdog]

I studied the FB page prior to it being deleted and I'm pretty sure the possible pregnancy that people were referring to was early last year. I think it was for the youngest sibling who appears to be about 18 months old.

I tried to look for that in previous threads but can't find it.Has it been CONFIRMED that she is in fact pregnant??

[/QUOTE]

Well thank the Lord, he wasn't watching the baby that day. I do wonder how he did interact with the baby.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I studied the FB page prior to it being deleted and I'm pretty sure the possible pregnancy that people were referring to was early last year. I think it was for the youngest sibling who appears to be about 18 months old.

I tried to look for that in previous threads but can't find it.Has it been CONFIRMED that she is in fact pregnant??

Or maybe even younger for the youngest sib (photo gallery, page 1, photo 3 looks pretty little). Read somewhere that he was 9 months, but I now think that's maybe too young by looking at the photo...

 

[mamabear5]

I've been lurking since this all began and finally joined yesterday. I grew up in the Valley Springs area, still live fairly close, and have lots of friends and family living in and around VS.

In regards to the timelines that are being created. I think it is possible that a wrong assumption is being made that LF "died" at 1:01 pm. We know that she was "pronounced" dead at that time. In CA EMS personnel cannot pronounce people dead. Under very specific criteria they can declare a person dead but it still takes a coroner or a MD to pronounce. I also think based on my familiarity with various EMS personnel that there is a HUGE possibility, that even if there was no pulse, etc when they arrived, that usually extraordinary measures are taken in regards to children and I think those would've been taken in an attempt to lessen what was most definitely an already chaotic scene.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across correctly, but basically, EMS rolls up to a stabbing scene with parents and children most likely freaking out, screaming etc and I don't think even if the subject was obviously dead that would declare them dead at that point. I think they would scoop them up and get out of there asap. I think being pronounced only 6 minutes after arrival tells a lot. IMO LF was very possibly already deceased when EMS arrived.

 

[MsFacetious]

Or maybe even younger for the youngest sib (photo gallery, page 1, photo 3 looks pretty little). Read somewhere that he was 9 months, but I now think that's maybe too young by looking at the photo...

She was due in February 2012.
So that would make him about 15 months old.

 

[gitana1]

JMO but to excuse anyone who kills because they live in a turbulent life is a discredit to those of us who have survived such a life. Many of us actually prosper. There is something very wrong with a 12 year old who even thinks of killing and its not his home life. Some mental illness is biological, if in fact he is mentally ill. I was the oldest of six children left to care for them while both parents worked. I resented it but it made me a super responsible care taker in my professional life. Never once did I ever consider hurting anyone. I endured other abuse that is too horrible to discuss. A turbulent life did not make this child kill. I know many, many people like me so I have experience to back my opinion up. Still JMO

Where has anyone excused the murder for any reason? Mental illness due to intense family discord can be an explanation. But not an excuse.

 

[Jhon]

No, that's not it. The fact that both women are discussing the other parent publicly in a negative context- well the bio mom didn't specifically, but she did allude to it - proves there is a problem there.

It doesn't prove there is a problem. However, it may suggest there is a problem. Further, assuming Leila was murdered by her sibling because of your suggested "household problems" under which you belive they lived, why aren't there countless other sibling murders through out the nation? Divorce -- and bitter ones at that -- are not uncommon. I don't think you can really point to anything in inter-parental relationships that would cause or even contribute one child to kill another without some serious mental gymnastics -- particularly with this case.

By making assumptions about how the parents relationships effected their children in a way that would contribute to one killing the other is just slightly better than suggesting that feeding the children to keeping them from starving to death contributed to one killing the other (because if they were dead of starvation, one couldn't kill the other, could they)?

What we know is that the children were with the bio father. That should at least suggest something positive about living in that home vs. the bio mom.

 

[winterrose]

I can't find anything new today and I hate to say it, but has the lawyer posted anything on twitter?

 

[MsFacetious]

Kids react differently.
Just like some abused kids grow up to use drugs and go to prison.
While their siblings might end up being successful people with jobs and families.
Everyone is different. :twocents:

<modsnip>
The system doesn't always get it right. If it did we'd have a lot less dead kids. :twocents:

 

[mysteriew]

JMO but to excuse anyone who kills because they live in a turbulent life is a discredit to those of us who have survived such a life. Many of us actually prosper. There is something very wrong with a 12 year old who even thinks of killing and its not his home life. Some mental illness is biological, if in fact he is mentally ill. I was the oldest of six children left to care for them while both parents worked. I resented it but it made me a super responsible care taker in my professional life. Never once did I ever consider hurting anyone. I endured other abuse that is too horrible to discuss. A turbulent life did not make this child kill. I know many, many people like me so I have experience to back my opinion up. Still JMO

To back up what others are saying, let me offer up this example.

Let's say it is the middle of the day is a busy place. Suddenly there is a violent, tragic accident and many injured.

Some people will walk away. Some will stand paralysed, unable to even scream. Some will look on and maybe even call the local news. And some will rush to help. Possibly none will be medical personnel.

Every person has different reactions. Even when they are in the same situations.

 

[MsFacetious]

I can't find anything new today and I hate to say it, but has the lawyer posted anything on twitter?

Nope.

https://twitter.com/reichellaw

 

[Jhon]

Every person has different reactions. Even when they are in the same situations.

So wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it wasn't the "situation" then, but something else?