GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[TGIRecovered]

This was simmering for a long time. She might have only done or said something minor that set him off that day.

I don't think that she necessarily did anything. When someone is angry enough to attack a little girl, there is never a reason to commit a murder like that. They just do it. They look for a "reason" in their intended victim's normal behavior or even choose a victim in order to bring heartache to someone else.

MOO

 

[blue22]

Right, she wanted to be called Leila's mother. But that could enrage IF if he was harboring pain and anger about that situation, of his belief that his mother was being mistreated and kept away from them. Just a thought.

I agree. I worded what I was saying poorly. I mean that if she wanted to be Leila's mom and not his, that could be very painful.

Still, I'm definitely not trying to blame the parents for his actions. All kinds of things in the home could have contributed to rage, but I personally think a murder like that is caused by something internally. It sounds like a chaotic home life, but it's really not all that abnormal of a situation. Blended families, child custody disagreements, and step parents and parents not getting along...is really incredibly common. Even having to move a lot and financial problems are not uncommon. We don't know what he experienced at home, but there have been no hints of abuse or them not being loved. None that I have personally read, anyway.

 

[menmo]

well, if the murder weapon was the swiss army knife IF was reportedly caught with at school, I can image that it would take many stab wounds to be fatal.
Back to lurking.

Speaking of IF being caught at school with the knife makes me wonder if he showed it to someone, threatened someone, or was just showing off with it. Also makes me wonder if he got suspended for it (I think I read that somewhere) why would any parent let him have it back? Hmmmm, unless he told them he took it by accident, like forgetting it in his pocket.
So many questions about this I'd love answered.

If all we have to go on is the family dynamics we have seen so far, then I have a guess. I think that IF was very sad and depressed about his feelings of abandonment and grief surrounding his mother. I think he blamed his father for the situation, given the court case to taker some of her disability and that she was sometimes homeless. I think he was much more attached to his mom than his little sis was. We know that Crystal was outspoken about wanting to be known as their 'mother.' So I can see him being triggered by something Leila might have said. Maybe she said that Crystal was their new mom and he should get over it, who cares about Priscilla. I can see that triggering a lot of misplaced rage. :cry:

My guess is that IF has a lot of anger about his family. All of them. All of the problems associated with them, along with feeling alone in a big family. (not saying he was) I imagine it really is easy to feel lost with so many members and the revolving door of the adults in his life.
My thoughts are that maybe LF said or did nothing at all to make him feel this provoked (if he's guilty). Maybe it's just the way he felt she was accepted more than him in the family. Maybe it was that she rolled with the flow more easily than him and he didn't realize the depths of her hurt over their situation (guessing!) maybe it was that she bonded more with CW or one of the other siblings, or maybe it was just because he hated his life so much. I don't know but wish I did. I need all the pieces to the puzzle to be able to try and understand.
Years ago we went through the classes to be foster parents and even though I had a good childhood can easily put myself in those kids shoes, thinking and feeling what they must feel in each situation. What a life we give our children sometimes. Breaks my heart!

BBM

I don't think that she necessarily did anything. When someone is angry enough to attack a little girl, there is never a reason to commit a murder like that. They just do it. They look for a "reason" in their intended victim's normal behavior or even choose a victim in order to bring heartache to someone else.

MOO

To me it's all about each person's perception of life events that makes or breaks them.

MOO

 

[menmo]

BBM

I agree. I worded what I was saying poorly. I mean that if she wanted to be Leila's mom and not his, that could be very painful.

Still, I'm definitely not trying to blame the parents for his actions. All kinds of things in the home could have contributed to rage, but I personally think a murder like that is caused by something internally. It sounds like a chaotic home life, but it's really not all that abnormal of a situation. Blended families, child custody disagreements, and step parents and parents not getting along...is really incredibly common. Even having to move a lot and financial problems are not uncommon. We don't know what he experienced at home, but there have been no hints of abuse or them not being loved. None that I have personally read, anyway.

It may not be all that uncommon but each person processes it differently. If this happened at the hands of IF I think it's something that was caused internally then the life he lived contributed to it in some way.

ETA Not trying to place blame on anyone. People usually do the best they can.

 

[blue22]

Speaking of IF being caught at school with the knife makes me wonder if he showed it to someone, threatened someone, or was just showing off with it. Also makes me wonder if he got suspended for it (I think I read that somewhere) why would any parent let him have it back? Hmmmm, unless he told them he took it by accident, like forgetting it in his pocket.

In the district here, you get suspended for having a knife, and expelled for threatening or showing the blade. You can not go back to the school, if you are expelled for that reason. To me, it makes sense that if he were violent or threatening with it, he would not be allowed back in the school.

If they did give it back...they probably did so, because they had not seen him use it inappropriately. It seems like most young guys have a pocketknife. I was in high school when Columbine happened. I carried a small Swiss Army knife on my key chain. I didn't even think about it, and was suspended. My parents had no problem getting me another. I used it responsibly, but just forgot that day.

Oh, and the school could have confiscated the knife and never gave it back. I don't actually think it's abnormal for a 12 year old to have a pocket knife, or to take it to school with no intentions. I definitely think IF did this, but the knife thing only matters now, and after the fact. It could have meant nothing at the time.

 

[katydid23]

In the district here, you get suspended for having a knife, and expelled for threatening or showing the blade. You can not go back to the school, if you are expelled for that reason. To me, it makes sense that if he were violent or threatening with it, he would not be allowed back in the school.

If they did give it back...they probably did so, because they had not seen him use it inappropriately. It seems like most young guys have a pocketknife. I was in high school when Columbine happened. I carried a small Swiss Army knife on my key chain. I didn't even think about it, and was suspended. My parents had no problem getting me another. I used it responsibly, but just forgot that day.

Oh, and the school could have confiscated the knife and never gave it back. I don't actually think it's abnormal for a 12 year old to have a pocket knife, or to take it to school with no intentions. I definitely think IF did this, but the knife thing only matters now, and after the fact. It could have meant nothing at the time.

My son took a backpack that he rarely used to middle school after memorial weekend because he left his school one at a friends. So he saw that he had his swiss army knife in there and he went himself to the office to turn it in AND GOT SUSPENDED. I couldn't believe it. He was upset because he thought he was doing the right thing and he still got sent home. Luckily they removed it from his permanent record because he has since applied to the police academy and they actually look for weapons suspensions. Anyway, I am not that worried about this kid having a swiss army knife because lots of boys his age have them and accidentally take them to school. JMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The lawyers were arguing before that IF should be able to return home until the trials starts. However, wouldn't CPS have a problem with IF, who is being charged with murder, being in the home with other children?

 

[CHERIE.T]

The lawyers were arguing before that IF should be able to return home until the trials starts. However, wouldn't CPS have a problem with IF, who is being charged with murder, being in the home with other children?

If CPS doesn't have a problem with an accused murderer being in a home filled with children, what would they have a problem with? Kwim? I hope IF isn't released. :moo:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It's water under the bridge, now, I suppose. The idea to have him released pre-trial was not brought up by attorneys this past Wednesday, due to the family not having a 'suitable place' to keep him. (The family being between homes, apparently.)

http://fox40.com/2013/05/29/isaiah-fowlers-attorneys-enter-not-guilty-plea/#ixzz2UjT31xzn

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I feel bad for the family if they are couch-hopping. To not have anyone who wants you to live with them has be extremely difficult. Especially for the kids. But with their $70k they got in donations, they could easily start renting a new place.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Seems that should be true, eileenhawkeye.

 

[MsFacetious]

If I was in their situation I would not use the donations for that.
Those donations would only to go Leila... her funeral... memorial and then crime victims.
I would not feel right using donations to support myself...
Maybe this family has more integrity than people are giving them credit for?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If I was in their situation I would not use the donations for that.
Those donations would only to go Leila... her funeral... memorial and then crime victims.
I would not feel right using donations to support myself...
Maybe this family has more integrity than people are giving them credit for?

I don't understand how pretty much being homeless means you have integrity. These children have lost two siblings, have to live with the fact that one of them killed the other, and now they move from house to house. What further emotional damage will this living situation do to them? Not even sleeping in their own beds, on some couch somewhere. Not to mention, knowing that even family members don't want you living with them, like you're a bunch of patriarchs. If the family was to use the money to rent a home for them to live in, I don't see what the problem is. They are paying for shelter, not for designer outfits. If parents lose their child to murder or because they are missing...and have to take off from work for a few months, I don't see why it would be so bad for them to live off the donations for a bit to make up for lost wages.

ETA: I don't know for sure that they are going from house-to-house but with the lawyers saying the living situations is unstable, it sounds like it. I just want to know why the family's living situation is so bad right now that the lawyers believe IF is better off in a cell than with them.

 

[MsFacetious]

We all know that if they used donation money to rent a house...
People would make that into "they are using it to stabilize so the KILLER can come home!!!!"
Just like people would FREAK OUT if they used the donations to pay for the defense.
They would be raked over the coals if they used that money to support themselves. :twocents:

 

[Ghostwheel]

We all know that if they used donation money to rent a house...
People would make that into "they are using it to stabilize so the KILLER can come home!!!!"
Just like people would FREAK OUT if they used the donations to pay for the defense.
They would be raked over the coals if they used that money to support themselves. :twocents:

If the donations are not to help IF, and they are not to help the family, what are they for?

ETA: Never mind, see my post below.

 

[Ghostwheel]

My son took a backpack that he rarely used to middle school after memorial weekend because he left his school one at a friends. So he saw that he had his swiss army knife in there and he went himself to the office to turn it in AND GOT SUSPENDED. I couldn't believe it. He was upset because he thought he was doing the right thing and he still got sent home. Luckily they removed it from his permanent record because he has since applied to the police academy and they actually look for weapons suspensions. Anyway, I am not that worried about this kid having a swiss army knife because lots of boys his age have them and accidentally take them to school. JMO

BBM: That kind of stupidity on the part of the school makes me crazy. How are you supposed to teach people to do the right thing when, if they do, they get punished? We were lucky, when my then 12 year old son did the same, our school Principal kept the knife, called home to make sure we knew what happened to it, and one of the parents had to pick it up, but no trouble for my son. It never happened again.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The donations are not being used for the defense or for the investigator hired by defense (which is probably a good thing, as it appears some who donated had issue with that). So...if the family's home has been made uninhabitable by the murder and investigation, and they have been uprooted, I don't understand why anybody would have an 'integrity' issue with them using some of the funds for moving expenses, maybe even first month's rent in a new rental. It's not like they went out and purchased a luxury yacht or went to Europe.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Never mind. I see that it is called a memorial fund. That changes everything. They need to have a separate fund set up for people who just want to donate to the family, to help them out. A memorial fund has the connotation of doing something with the money in the named persons name.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Never mind. I see that it is called a memorial fund. That changes everything. They need to have a separate fund set up for people who just want to donate to the family, to help them out. A memorial fund has the connotation of doing something with the money in the named persons name.

Ghostwheel, I think some of the confusion about what the fund is actually called might be part of the problem. I believe eileenhawkeye is referencing the Valley Springs Fundraising Group (in whose Facebook pages that $70K was mentioned). In those pages it speaks of a "BENEFIT MEMORIAL CONCERT For LEILA FOWLER" and in later pages refers to various monies collected as going to "LEILA FOWLER and the FOWLER FAMILY OF VALLEY SPRINGS." (Not all the funds, as of this date--the purposes of that fund-raising group have evolved to encompass more needy families, especially since the arrest of the Fowler's son.) Is a "benefit memorial" fund different than a "memorial" fund? Does the first include "benefit" giving to family?

In the news conference that Monday morning after the murder, I believe that LE who spoke for the Fowlers gave out the bank fund's name and account info for those interested in donating (and if I recall, I think I remember it being referred to as a 'memorial' fund). It seems a lot of people round the world simply sent in donations without a clear understanding of how they might be used. They didn't care about that until the son got arrested...and then it became a more delicate situation, something many had not anticipated. When the purpose of a fund isn't clearly designated, it can cause confusion and misunderstandings later.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It sounds more like they know that CPS or the Judge would not allow him to be returned to a home where there are other children. The attorneys aren't going to want to say that's the reason why, so they gave a vague statement.

Unless I missed that it was stated somewhere in MSM, that they were couch surfing, homeless or other family members wouldn't take them in? All I read was they were in the process of moving and most people IMO, would move if something so tragic happened in their home.