GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[PoirotryInMotion]

I still feel like I've missed something. How do we know they are not already living in a different home and they simply moved after the tragedy to another place?

I think people are believing that because just Wednesday this past week it was reported that IF's attys were not petitioning for IF to be released to his parents because there was no 'suitable place to keep him' -- and reported elsewhere that it was not petitioned due to the fact that at the time of the crime they were 'in the process of moving.'

People are interpreting this the best they can figure, I think. Sounds like they're between homes, and that the petition didn't happen due to that instability.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Leila Fowler, 8, Murdered in Valley Springs 12 year old Brother Arrested #2


ETA: Here's how the defense atty puts it:

Based on statements from the last hearing, it was thought Fowler’s defense would submit a petition to allow their client to be released to his parents, but such a request was not made.

In a later press conference, the defense explained why it hadn’t made the request.

“We didn’t make any request along the lines of the release today, and the reason is the family was in a state of flux when this incident happened; they were about to move. And this happened and they lost their residence then and it’s been very difficult to go back to a very solid stable life enough to receive their son back during this trial. We don’t have an appropriate placement for him other than where he’s at,” Reichel said. Isaiah is being held at a youth facility in El Dorado County.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_ce612e08-c9ff-11e2-8da4-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[zwiebel]

Regarding the treatment and rehabilitation of child offenders, I always found Norway's reaction to the case mentioned in the link here very interesting. It seems the approach has worked well for the child offenders, but it sounds like it has been very hard for the victim's family. The children in Norway were only half the age of the child charged in this case here, of course.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I think people are believing that because just Wednesday this past week it was reported that IF's attys were not petitioning for IF to be released to his parents because there was no 'suitable place to keep him' -- and reported elsewhere that it was not petitioned due to the fact that at the time of the crime they were 'in the process of moving.'

People are interpreting this the best they can figure, I think. Sounds like they're between homes, and that the petition didn't happen due to that instability.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Leila Fowler, 8, Murdered in Valley Springs 12 year old Brother Arrested #2


ETA: Here's how the defense atty puts it:

IMO, this is BS attorney talk. There is no way that that courts would release I to go home to a house full of other children. That's why both sides peacefully agreed.

 

[white rabbit]

snipped, bbm:

http://news.yahoo.com/california-12-old-accused-killing-sister-expected-deny-104559741.html[/url]

Fowler also characterized himself as struggling financially in a declaration this year in a separate support case against the mother of his 15-year-old daughter and a 19-year-old son.

Asked if he could verify Fowler's claims of money woes, Reichel said: "He is broke and penniless, that's for sure."

 

[eileenhawkeye]

snipped, bbm:

http://news.yahoo.com/california-12-old-accused-killing-sister-expected-deny-104559741.html[/url]

Fowler also characterized himself as struggling financially in a declaration this year in a separate support case against the mother of his 15-year-old daughter and a 19-year-old son.

Asked if he could verify Fowler's claims of money woes, Reichel said: "He is broke and penniless, that's for sure."

So what happened to the $70k? I am starting to wonder if maybe the lawyers did take a big chunk of that? The only other possibility I can think of is the family is going to donate the money, but I feel like they would have done that already, and we would have heard about it. Maybe they are meeting with legal advisors to see whether or not they can use the money they received to support themselves? I doubt the Fowlers have enough saved up to support themselves without working for a few months. I just don't get how they are broke and penniless if they have $70k in the bank unless they already spent the money or are giving it away.

Was the fund for Leila ever registered as a non-profit? There was never even a website or FB page for it that gave some explanation either. I'm guessing people either donated directly to the fund or donated to charity events around town that gave the $$$ to the fund. I feel like a lot of people when they donated probably thought their money might go towards supporting the family if they aren't able to work for a few months.

 

[white rabbit]

where is the rumored 70k, and what is it being used for?

http://m.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130513/A_NEWS/305130307&template=wapart

"Mitchell also told the congregation that a donor had stepped forward to cover burial costs for the Fowler family, and so the church was no longer asking donations for that purpose."

http://fox40.com/local-news/stories/valley-springs-girl-killed/

"The attorneys also wanted to let the people of Valley Springs, who so diligently raised funds for Leila’s family, that the money wasn’t going to IF’s defense.

“There’s no misunderstanding. Everything they’ve received on behalf of those who were nice enough to show their support has nothing to do with their legal team,” Reichel said."

 

[dinaslala]

I think people are believing that because just Wednesday this past week it was reported that IF's attys were not petitioning for IF to be released to his parents because there was no 'suitable place to keep him' -- and reported elsewhere that it was not petitioned due to the fact that at the time of the crime they were 'in the process of moving.'

People are interpreting this the best they can figure, I think. Sounds like they're between homes, and that the petition didn't happen due to that instability.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Leila Fowler, 8, Murdered in Valley Springs 12 year old Brother Arrested #2


ETA: Here's how the defense atty puts it:

BBM.. "unsuitable" IMIO = A Living situation where he would not reside with anyone younger than himself does not currently exist.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

http://fox40.com/local-news/stories/valley-springs-girl-killed/

"The attorneys also wanted to let the people of Valley Springs, who so diligently raised funds for Leila’s family, that the money wasn’t going to IF’s defense.

“There’s no misunderstanding. Everything they’ve received on behalf of those who were nice enough to show their support has nothing to do with their legal team,” Reichel said."

A strong hunch confirmed - thanks for the post!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

IMO, this is BS attorney talk. There is no way that that courts would release I to go home to a house full of other children. That's why both sides peacefully agreed.

Could be, but I think the bigger issue is that it's obvious the parents prefer to leave him where he is. Otherwise they'd have had their atty petition last Wednesday to bring him home even if they thought they had only the slimmest chance for court approval. But...if, as they say, they're convinced IF didn't do it, that's begs the question why (to some inquiring minds)...why didn't they even try to get him released prior to trial?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sounds like they were "about to move" prior to the murder, possibly due to that 'penniless' situation the atty mentioned?

In a later press conference, the defense explained why it hadn’t made the request.

“We didn’t make any request along the lines of the release today, and the reason is the family was in a state of flux when this incident happened; they were about to move. And this happened and they lost their residence then and it’s been very difficult to go back to a very solid stable life enough to receive their son back during this trial. We don’t have an appropriate placement for him other than where he’s at,” Reichel said. Isaiah is being held at a youth facility in El Dorado County.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/n...a4bcf887a.html

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Could be, but I think the bigger issue is that it's obvious the parents prefer to leave him where he is. Otherwise they'd have had their atty petition last Wednesday to bring him home even if they thought they had the slimmest chance for court approval. So...if, as they say, they're convinced IF didn't do it, that's begs the question why (to some inquiring minds).

I have wondered about this as well. This is what perplexes me about the attorneys involvement. Even if the parents know that I is guilty, do they want to try and get the charges dismissed? Or, should I say what are they hoping to accomplish with the attorneys? I'm curious about that.

I can't imagine the conflict the parents must be feeling, but I also can't imagine wanting to bring I back into the home and even take the slightest chance that someone else could be injured. If brought back in the home would he receive the intensive counseling that he needs? I also don't like seeing counseling being delayed for I as another poster mentioned.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have wondered about this as well. This is what perplexes me about the attorneys involvement. Even if the parents know that I is guilty, do they want to try and get the charges dismissed? Or, should I say what are they hoping to accomplish with the attorneys? I'm curious about that.

I can't imagine the conflict the parents must be feeling, but I also can't imagine wanting to bring I back into the home and even take the slightest chance that someone else could be injured. If brought back in the home would he receive the intensive counseling that he needs? I also don't like seeing counseling being delayed for I as another poster mentioned.

I am also confused about it. What if the lawyers win? Would CPS still have a case to remove the other children from the home? I don't think the parents truly believe IF is innocent, or there would be a lot from noise about how LE is railroading him, and about how they need to find the real killer. Maybe they have some delusional idea that if IF came home, they would just never let him be alone with the kids or they would be able to change him? Or like "It was just an accident---He's not really like that!" sort of delusional thinking?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I have wondered about this as well. This is what perplexes me about the attorneys involvement. Even if the parents know that I is guilty, do they want to try and get the charges dismissed? Or, should I say what are they hoping to accomplish with the attorneys? I'm curious about that.

I can't imagine the conflict the parents must be feeling, but I also can't imagine wanting to bring I back into the home and even take the slightest chance that someone else could be injured. If brought back in the home would he receive the intensive counseling that he needs? I also don't like seeing counseling being delayed for I as another poster mentioned.

It's muddling, for sure. And so was my post, lol--which I edited above for clarity (I hope).

Here's what we know:

• The parents have stated publicly they think their son is innocent and they "stand behind him."

• The atty has tried or is trying to get IF's charges dismissed based on his age--presumably this attempt agrees with the parents as well

• However, the atty on Wednesday was expected to have filed for petition for IF's release prior to trial--but then didn't. When asked why by media afterward, he danced around his answer, saying there was 'no suitable place for him,' the family had been planning on moving prior to the murder, the family "lost" their residence (if they were moving why would that matter?), the family still wasn't 'situated' or 'stabilized', etc.

The first two points seem to indicate the parents are comfortable with his not being charged, as they don't feel he was the killer. The last one, though, seems to indicate at the very least that the family is not interested in having him home right now. When posts are made by those close to the situation that that might be b/c he would be around the younger children...that, too, speaks of trouble concerning their trust of him.

So it seems the parents' words are saying one thing, but their actions via their atty this past week are saying another.

 

[vasportsmom]

I am also confused about it. What if the lawyers win? Would CPS still have a case to remove the other children from the home? I don't think the parents truly believe IF is innocent, or there would be a lot from noise about how LE is railroading him, and about how they need to find the real killer. Maybe they have some delusional idea that if IF came home, they would just never let him be alone with the kids or they would be able to change him? Or like "It was just an accident---He's not really like that!" sort of delusional thinking?

Surely if IF was released while waiting to be tried the release would be conditional with some very strict stipulations ordered to ensure the safety of the other children. Ideally, I would hope that he wouldn't be allowed to reside with his younger siblings but if the family is struggling to obtain (or maintain) one home then supporting two households may be an impossibility.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Surely if IF was released while waiting to be tried the release would be conditional with some very strict stipulations ordered to ensure the safety of the other children. Ideally, I would hope that he wouldn't be allowed to reside with his younger siblings but if the family is struggling to obtain (or maintain) one home then supporting two households may be an impossibility.

I don't expect IF to get released while waiting for his trial. I was talking about if IF is found not guilty. Not saying that it would mean IF actually didn't do it, but if the prosecution doesn't prove their case, or the defense is able to argue reasonable doubt.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sounds like they have moved, and are not between two houses, just that they are 'unsettled.'

Reichel and his law partner, Steve Plesser, had intended to ask the judge to release the boy to his parents pending trial, but they decided against moving forward this week because the family is unsettled after moving to an undisclosed location since the killing.

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/boy-12-ple...20350312/-/gxm910z/-/index.html#ixzz2V7wzK52D

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Sounds like they have moved, and are not between two houses, just that they are 'unsettled.'

So they are broke and penniless...but what is paying for the rent for this new home? Is Barney back to work? Are they using the 70k? I don't have a problem with that but then why are the lawyers saying they are broke if they have that much money in the bank?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

So they are broke and penniless...but what is paying for the rent for this new home? Is Barney back to work? Are they using the 70k? I don't have a problem with that but then why are the lawyers saying they are broke if they have that much money in the bank?

I don't know; good question. I read in the Valley Springs Fundraising FB page comments (hearsay status, though no one countered it) that BF did pull out $9K from the bank fund that first week. Since the burial costs were donated, it could be that he was pulling out cash for the move. It may be that when the lawyer calls them penniless, he's referring to their personal checking account, their situation before the murder, not this current fund. But that doesn't fully explain things, I know.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I don't know; good question. I read in the Valley Springs Fundraising FB page comments (hearsay status, though no one countered it) that BF did pull out $9K from the bank fund that first week. Since the burial costs were donated, it could be that he was pulling out cash for the move. It may be that when the lawyer calls them penniless, he's referring to their personal checking account, their situation before the murder, not this current fund. But that doesn't fully explain things, I know.

The murder happened only a month ago, so it's possible that if they are now renting a really cheap place and if family members helped them out before with expenses like food and gas, possibly they had enough saved up from their personal accounts?

But saying they are penniless because their personal account is empty despite having $70k would be a huge lie to the public by the lawyers. What if people decide to give more money to help them out not realizing they have plenty? The family could go an entire year without working with this $70k.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Maybe that's the whole point to get donations coming back in. They hired him, so I assume they're his clients defending the son. As far as the truth, the lawyer did say there were witnesses to an intruder in the morning express show and everyone knows the one person was investigated, LE said it's not him, and the other witness recanted, so there's no witnesses to an intruder. I think it speaks volumes the father had another opportunity to go to the reporter's microphone and say his son is innocent and the public should still be looking for the intruder. He says nothing and keeps walking, so...

Well, lying to say that the family is broke to get more donations while the family has $70k in the bank would be extremely shady. I'll wait for more proof of that before accusing the parents/lawyers of that behavior.Although I imagine that trying to get donations at this point would be extremely difficult.