GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[tlcya]

acerbic wit. Always been a fan of a dry or sarcastic humor.

 

[katydid23]

This doesn't make sense to me at all.

First, going out to hunt for the guy while your daughter is dying and getting ready/being transported to the hospital and your son has gone through the trauma of finding her (even if he isn't innocent, he had to have been at least acting upset) seems odd to me.

I know stepmom and stepsister were there, but still. I have to believe your first instinct would be to be with your family and spend your daughter's last moments with her.

But let's assume you do decide it's more important to go try to find the guy...

Are you going to jump out of your truck to ask if the neighbor's seen anyone? Seems like it would be a lot faster to just shout the question from your truck window so you can keep driving and looking if he says no.

And even if it did happen, it seems silly to question whether that was the dad or not. What--the murderer was going to drive around drawing attention to himself by impersonating the dad and doing that?!

Plus, it's amazing what we don't notice when our mind is focused on something else (like the implied blood all over his shirt).

I agree that it is very unlikely. But IF the perp had been driving off and then saw a neighbor standing out front looking right at him, a con man type of ploy would have been to stop and act like he was searching for the suspect, to avoid looking like the suspect himself. JMO

 

[menmo]

Uh, the 15-year-old hasn't been charged with murder so I don't get your point...Why such harsh words for a teenager who was just asked a question by the media?

Sorry if it came across that way. What I was trying to convey is that this boys opinion of IF isn't necessary, anymore than IF opinion of him is. Not everyone is going to have the same opinions and while we read some that think he was odd there is others I've read that he's an okay kid.
I really wish the reporters would not drag more children into this.

I read an article on the site of a Bay area paper, and I'm sorry I can't recall which one, that quoted two schoolmates of IF who were at a diner or cafe. The first one described him as a bully, but the next chimed in with a positive impression of IF.

We might expect to see many more conflicting descriptions of IF as the case unfolds. Perhaps colored by the fact that he stands accused of murder, or perhaps because hey, not all kids like or get along with each other.

Exactly. Thank you

MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

If you are working from a theoretical basis, a psychopath can not be in full force until a stage of development goes awry. Psychopath is one of those words that people just throw about. Technically, depending on the background you work from, a psychopath is nurture, not nature. A stage of development has a bit of a hicup. I agree, labels are not helpful.

Well that's certainly one school of thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wwc02]

acerbic wit. <snip>

Oh man; you got me. I had to look up acerbic. I am humbled. Darn it anyway.

 

[JenB]

It is with keen interest that I'm following this case. I have a child with Intermittent Explosive Disorder, and while I've learned to read her well and help her manage her emotions, stories like this scare me. My daughter has been violent and destructive in the past, and has frightened her siblings. But other parents tell us that's just normal sibling stuff and brush it off... I don't know. It wasn't the norm in my house growing up, and I don't want it to be the norm for my children.

My daughter has threatened to stab her brother with a pencil, and has told her sister she intended to suffocate her. Afterward, my daughter claimed to have been joking. She has good weeks and even months, and has done very, very well this last year, but there are still incidents like those I've mentioned, that concern me.

Our family is fairly traditional and I am with my kids all but 1-2 hrs/day, at most. But I can see where unsettling "warning signs" could get brushed aside by well meaning friends, by teachers who say how the child is an angel at school, and by the parents themselves in the course of stressful family dynamics and a lot of young children. (Not bashing large families - I have a large family and there are benefits and drawbacks.)

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I was thinking that Don would be a witness for the prosecution because he claims he never saw anyone enter or leave the home during the time of the murder. But now that his story about the man in the truck is out there, I am not too sure. I would imagine during cross-examination, the defense will bring up the bloody man in the truck who claimed to be Leila's father but was not. So now I wonder if the defense will call him to be a witness for their side? How does that work if both sides want one witness?

 

[tlcya]

thanks JenB, for sharing your own experience and the POV you bring to this case. It is very appreciated.

I do not envy your position and can only imagine how difficult things have been in the past. I am glad to read that things are going reasonably well with your daughter right now.

 

[tlcya]

I think neighbor DM will be considered too great a wildcard for either side to call. JMO

 

[blue22]

I think neighbor DM will be considered too great a wildcard for either side to call. JMO

Yes! He's probably the kind of guy who has a story for everything. Neither side could guarantee he wouldn't come up with something on stand. What a strange case, with strange witnesses, and even stranger circumstances!!

I don't recall there ever being a crime situation like this, with with witnesses like this...in the news ever!

 

[Helenstreet]

I disagree.

If this kid is a psychopath chances are no one saw or ever suspected a thing. They tend to be charming, helpful and respectful.... Even as children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Although there is some disagreement among "schools" of psychology whether or not a psychopath and a sociopath are the same thing, (I believe they are different), you are absolutely correct. BOTH tend to be as you described. I would also like to mention regarding a previous post on the last closed thread--most of Freud's theories have been debunked by modern psychologists. That is not to say that Freud didn't make several important contributions. I will leave it at that. Psychology is my background, but I do not wish to elaborate further. Anyway, great post!

 

[tlneedham]

How does that work if both sides want one witness?

I would assume the prosecution simply calls him since they go first and then the defense tries to score their points on the cross-examination.

IMO witnesses often see/know things that can help both sides--and sometimes it's the same thing, but a matter of how the attorneys spin it.

But if the witness isn't credible then neither side will probably call him.

 

[Kaliste]

Yes, this info seems kind of 'fantastic' to be just coming out now. Wouldn't LE have given the public that description if they had it back at the start? ' BOLO; White SUV with blood soaked driver."

I agree. What's with all the "witnesses" in this case? So odd

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Although there is some disagreement among "schools" of psychology whether or not a psychopath and a sociopath is the same thing, (I believe they are different), you are absolutely correct. BOTH tend to be as you described. I would also like to mention regarding a previous post on the last closed thread--most of Freud's theories have been debunked by modern psychologists. That is not to say that Freud didn't make several important contributions. I will leave it at that. Psychology is my background, but I do not wish to elaborate further. Anyway, great post!

I agree that Psychopaths are somewhat different that Sociopaths, Helen.

IMHO, Psychopaths can be cold-blooded killers while most Sociopaths are cold-blooded liars.

Psychopaths are like Sociopaths on steroids!

:twocents:

 

[cluciano63]

Is there a large Hispanic population in town? Just wondering, since he claimed the perp was a "Mexican".

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Is there a large Hispanic population in town? Just wondering, since he claimed the perp was a "Mexican".

The racial makeup of Valley Springs was 3,047 (85.8%) White, 35 (1.0%) African American, 39 (1.1%) Native American, 70 (2.0%) Asian, 6 (0.2%) Pacific Islander, 179 (5.0%) from other races, and 177 (5.0%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 454 persons (12.8%).

 

[cluciano63]

The racial makeup of Valley Springs was 3,047 (85.8%) White, 35 (1.0%) African American, 39 (1.1%) Native American, 70 (2.0%) Asian, 6 (0.2%) Pacific Islander, 179 (5.0%) from other races, and 177 (5.0%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 454 persons (12.8%).

Hmmm, not a very large percentage.

 

[MustlyLurking]

I agree. What's with all the "witnesses" in this case? So odd

Maybe they should have the water tested for hallucinogenics? It is common for witnesses to have recollections that conflict with each other. But, this guy is self conflicting. And, they still have not explained exactly why the other one recanted her "sighting" of the perp.

 

[tlneedham]

Maybe they should have the water tested for hallucinogenics? It is common for witnesses to have recollections that conflict with each other. But, this guy is self conflicting. And, they still have not explained exactly why the other one recanted her "sighting" of the perp.

Do we know how old the recanting neighbor is? Is it possible her age made her confuse that day with the day before or misjudge what she saw and what house he was leaving from? And/or could she have learned later he was someone with a legit reason for being/leaving there?

Would also love to know whether this answer came from a leading question or whether she spontaneously volunteered this.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I'm fairly certain I read that she's either 18 or 19.