CA CA - Los Angeles Co., WhtFem 588UFCA, 16-28, in burned trailer, Jun'83

[anthrobones]

Here's what the dental chart says:


Maxilla
Right 3rd molar: Fully impacted
Right 2nd molar: Extensive dental caries; Distal half of crown destroyed.
Right 1st molar: The only words on this I can make out are "Amalgam on occusal" which means there was a filling.
Right 2nd premolar: Extensive dental caries
Right 1st premolar: Crown missing; root intact; partially charred
Right Canine: Crown missing; root intact; completely charred
Right lateral incisor: missing postmortem
Right central incisor: missing postmorte

Left 3rd molar: Partial bony impaction
Left 2nd molar: Crown destroyed by caries; roots intact; partially charred
Left 1st molar: Crown and mesial buccal root missing; cannot make out the rest of what it says.
Left 2nd premolar: missing postmortem
Left 1st premolar: missing postmortem
Left canine: missing postmortem
Left lateral incisor: missing postmortem
Left central incisor: missing postmortem

Mandible
Right 3rd molar: Partial bony impaction
Right 2nd molar: Occusal amalgam; mesial caries
Right 1st molar: Occusal amalgam; mesial and distal caries
Right 2nd premolar: Mesial caries; extensive distal caries
Right 1st premolar: Distal occusal caries
Right canine: Partially charred
Right lateral incisor: not recovered
Right central incisor: not recovered

Left side of mandible not recovered.

Basically what all this stuff means is that she did not get a lot of dental care. She had a few amalgam fillings, but a lot of her teeth were decaying. Her wisdom teeth had not yet erupted or were starting to erupt and were still impacted in the bone.

 

[Kimster]

Hey now! NMK, did you ever hear back from the detective???

 

[not_my_kids]

No, I did not hear back. I may have to go over his head, or I may be calling the wrong detective entirely. I might try the ME next. I will find an answer.
I am going to put some time in on this girl tonight before bed. Some prolonged digging on updated databases could give me gold.
I stayed away from this one most of the time I was sick, she upsets me way too much, but I have been getting better for awhile, I think I am strong enough to tackle it again.

 

[not_my_kids]

Namus has her age as 16-28, dental age 18-28. Found in Arcadia California in an abandoned trailer in the Angeles National Forest.
Her facial features are described as delicate.(She was tiny, sounds almost childlike looking.)
The lower left section of her jaw and her two front teeth were not recovered. (That distresses me more to think it was from violence before she died.)

https://identifyus.org/index.php?p=case&i=4273&=1&s=DateFound_DESC&from=search

Her case bulletin from LASD:
http://lacountymurders.com/wanted/Unsolved-083-01873-1251-011.pdf

 

[Snufamonbobball]

This one has always interested me too. I hope they are more interested in finding out who she is than they were with Dawn.

 

[not_my_kids]

Street view of the area where she was found.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=AFrkXA0BVDT29RaA3g75Yg&cbp=12,244.89,,0,5

Street view of the area where she was picked up earlier:
(It has changed.)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...llk0PKRt5U7IjgIsEFw6Aw&cbp=12,130.99,,0,21.52

 

[not_my_kids]

Nothing on Melvin Smith except for a possible hit on PA sex offender registry.
It is pennsylvania, but he was convicted 10-20-1983, and I don't know whether he was convicted in a different state and transferred. I have no idea if Melvin Smith, the one we are looking for, was convicted of anything more than straight murder. I'll link if it's okay, but since I don't know that it's the same guy, I'll wait until I know whether I can post. He can be looked up in the PA Sex offender registry, so I'll link that.
http://www.pameganslaw.state.pa.us/

 

[not_my_kids]

I am also looking at more information on this woman:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/587ufca.html

Stats are close to those of the other doe and she was left in what we already know was Smith's dumping grounds. I'll stick in a map to show how similar it was to the location of the burned doe.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=04OgTrrQE8xCWnQJg_duyg&cbp=12,356.54,,0,5

I'm also interested in this Doe, she was the same body style, and was tortured and burned.
http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase863.html

I'm sure that the first Doe, the original for this thread, was not the first one killed, you don't just pick up a random woman, I am assuming prostitute, and take her out in the forest and sadistically torture, then beat her to death. You work up to that. I am sure there are others. It's just one more angle.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

We really think alike NMK. I see one case and a detail from another pops in my head. A photo, a nose, where they were dumped, how they were killed, jewelry, clothes, ect, ect, I've noticed the same things about these cases and I would welcome the opportunity to work with you and take a more in depth look at these girls.

 

[not_my_kids]

So far for possibles:
Mindi Chambers - she has the right stats and her picture definitely show delicate features. The only problem is the braces that had come off 2 years before she disappeared, the marks would usually show up on teeth, but the beating may have made small marks impossible to see.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chambers_mindi.html

Janel Peters
Delicate features, although not as tiny as the Doe seems to be regarded as.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/peters_janel.html

Kathryn Mae Quackenbush
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1016dfmd.html
Disappeared in 1981, but was petite and had delicate looking features. She also disappeared from Maryland, which it makes her less likely to be a match.

Tracy Ann Byrd
Missing from the other side of the country, but definitely very petite and delicate, although she is two years under the age limit.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/9dfpa.html

I know there are others, and if I've missed any feel free to post them, I just wanted to get the more likely looking possiblilities all in one place.

 

[not_my_kids]

We really think alike NMK. I see one case and a detail from another pops in my head. A photo, a nose, where they were dumped, how they were killed, jewelry, clothes, ect, ect, I've noticed the same things about these cases and I would welcome the opportunity to work with you and take a more in depth look at these girls.

Well, I know that even with serials, not all their victims are alike. Or there may be only one feature or trait. Like with Bundy, it was dark hair parted in the middle, but the faces of his victims weren't all that similar to each other. But sometimes, if you can get a decent visual of one victim and link it to another, then you can have a basic image to build on.
With this Doe, we don't have a face and we don't have a name. If we can find enough links to another case, we might be able to find a few features that we would be looking for, with any luck at all it'll lead to a name.
I refuse to think inside the box, it's cramped and smells funny in there. :dance:

 

[kirsty]

Wow, what a horrible case (and a way to die) hope we find who she is quickly

 

[kirsty]

Tracy Ann Byrd
Missing from the other side of the country, but definitely very petite and delicate, although she is two years under the age limit.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/9dfpa.html
.

To me it sounds like Tracy's mother's ex was responsible for Tracy's death

 

[smart blonde]

Street view of the area where she was found.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...oid=AFrkXA0BVDT29RaA3g75Yg&cbp=12,244.89,,0,5

Street view of the area where she was picked up earlier:
(It has changed.)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...llk0PKRt5U7IjgIsEFw6Aw&cbp=12,130.99,,0,21.52

This case bothers me so much. I wish I knew how to help discover who she was.

I was 17 at the time she was murdered, and lived relatively close to where she was discovered... I was raised in Agoura Hills, California. This area is so close to my old stomping grounds.

Of course, back in 1983, people who 'went missing' didn't get the attention and media exposure they do now. But, I don't remember even hearing anything about this murder, until reading about it here on Websleuths. I wonder how much, if any, attention she got from local media back then?

It seems incredible to me that no one has missed this girl for all these years (over a quarter of a century) to still be actively trying to find her.

It would seem a double tragedy, to be tortured and murdered in such a way, and have no one that knew you desperate to find you.

I wish we knew more of the circumstances in which the confessed killer picked her up. What did she say to him? What conversation/ small talk did they have until he took her to where he killed her? He must know more than he shared.

My heart breaks for her. I wish so much we had a face to go with. I want her to at least have her name back.

 

[smart blonde]

We didn't have sex offender regestries back in 1983, if he indeed had ever been convicted of a prior sex crime it wouldn't be information we would likely be able to access anyway.

I really want to know more about the monster who confessed to murdering her. Is he still alive? Where is he now? What, if any, other crimes has he been convicted of, suspected of, accused of or admitted to?

How did they apprehend him for this crime to begin with? When? Where?

So many questions about her, so many questions about him.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Well, I know that even with serials, not all their victims are alike. Or there may be only one feature or trait. Like with Bundy, it was dark hair parted in the middle, but the faces of his victims weren't all that similar to each other. But sometimes, if you can get a decent visual of one victim and link it to another, then you can have a basic image to build on.
With this Doe, we don't have a face and we don't have a name. If we can find enough links to another case, we might be able to find a few features that we would be looking for, with any luck at all it'll lead to a name.
I refuse to think inside the box, it's cramped and smells funny in there. :dance:

AMEN to staying out of the cramped box! :woohoo:

 

[not_my_kids]

This is going to be fun...I finally found the office number that I needed to be calling. They are at a funeral right now and no longer have voice mail.
they
don't
have
voice
mail
Gack!

 

[not_my_kids]

Okay, got a callback.
There are no vitals. The small build, tiny frame are the only pieces of info that we can get. There wasn't much left. (Sorry, that's the way it was put to me.)

Mindi Chambers was checked back in 2008, ruled out.
Janel Peters, ruled out on size,
Kathyrn Quackenbush, being checked now. The name didn't ring a bell, but the files aren't housed on site, he'll have to send out for them.

There is DNA on Doe, he's about 99% sure.
Very good detective on her case, sharp as a tack.
They would have gotten hold of me sooner if there wasn't an unknown number block on my phone. Oops.

There will be more info on her, but he wanted to look into kathyrn first.

 

[AnnieOakley]

bump!

 

[not_my_kids]

Bump again.

Looks like it's time for a call back to Det. Kennerly, since I never got a followup call.

She has a link to Namus, but it gives me a 404 error...interesting.

Tuesday, I call the detective. Monday, I have to deal with my own and my son's school, so I won't be able to do it. I want to know what, if anything was ever found out about Kathryn Quackenbush, or any of the other possibilities.