Found Deceased CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #2 *Arrest*

[justwannahelp]

Ahh, the beach! When shall I arrive?

One last hurrah b4 kiddos go back to school. It's been fun. Dreading cleaning up and packing up tomm 😒

 

[katydid23]

His answer to the detectives that he wanted to dies and so he ' wanted to see peoples reactions' is BS, imo. Because if it was just about that, he could have hit her over the head and that would be it. But all of the other gruesome sexual stuff belies his explanation, imo. He wanted to do what he wanted to do. JMO

 

[Ladylub]

I an self-taught on acoustic guitar and to my ear, sound purty good. :rockon::bricks:

But I know nothing of music theory and proper training. I couldn't fool a trained musician, IMO.

I was never good with music abilities but drawing I could do when I was younger. I had to stop due to wrist issues and when I was able to get back into it I was so discouraged b/c I had been out of practice for so long and I still couldn't move my wrist completely that nothing I tried looked as good as it had once. Instead of keeping up with it I gave up until this summer. Each summer the kids and I pick a different summer project topic to do. Last yr it was science this yr they picked learning to draw. So they are forcing me to get back into it.

 

[EllieBee]

GREAT POST. I totally understand what you are saying. My kids, now grown, ended up being wonderful, well adjusted, happy in their lives. Yet their teen years were very trying for me. My husband worked a lot so I was the one doing 'battle.' And there were some loud battles. It is not easy taking a cell phone away from a 14 yr old girl as punishment. The way she screamed you would have thought I was removing her kidney. Or try telling your 15 yr old son that he cannot have his 17 yr old girl 'friend' climbing through his bedroom window at midnight. He was ready to move out of the house he was so angry at us. Things were quite volatile and I lost my temper many times. I never hit my kids, ever. But I did raise my voice too many times.

If one of them was in trouble now, people could say ' I heard their parents screaming at them ' or their mom used to punish them 'unfairly. ' I am just relieved that they grew out of their teen angst and began to understand what we were trying to teach them.

I can laugh now, but back then I honestly worried if neighbors would call CPS on us. I also never spanked nor hit my child but there were times she did not like the "news" she received as in "no computer and no phone for a week" and would shriek like a banshee and slam doors and stomp.

And we lived in a condo.

I prepared myself many a day for that knock at the door and how best to explain that I was "parenting", not "abusing" my child.

But the eye rolling alone was really enough to make me give myself a time out before I lit into her.

All this to say, unless it is shown that AJG's mom was really a crap failure as a mom,
she has my sympathy. Nobody's life is ideal, and everyone struggles to be the best they can be. But to blame this woman without knowing who/what she was as a parent is really jumping the gun.

As I said before, there but for the grace of God go I.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All I know is that the video of her screaming and pacing shot straight through to my heart.

I have felt compassion for the parents and families of perps before, but never have I seen with my own eyes the anguish a parent feels at the moment they realize what their child/loved one has done.

I can't imagine the horror and the grief. In some ways, it must be worse (please, no flames) than the grief of the parent whose child was victimized, because you are demonized for your child's heinous deeds. And very few people are there to offer comfort to the mother of a monster.

Please do not think I minimize the pain that Maddy's family is suffering.

I just feel very real pity for AJG's mother. Her pain is unique in that the public has condemned her for her child's crimes, and she has no support system (other than perhaps immediate family).

This young man has destroyed so much, so many lives. He is not fixable,

But his poor mom is a victim, too.

JMO

You are right and she too will have to answer for the sins her son has committed even though she had no part in this and may be a very gentle woman. She sure seem to be a very giving person and was well liked in the apartment complex.

I dont know why some seem to want to blame the parents in cases such as this. Maybe they think if blame is placed on the parent or parents then something like this will never happen to them or their child/children.

I have seen parental blame even when they are the deceased murdered victims instead of blaming the child who murdered them. Along the belief of 'it had to be something the parents did for their own child or children to kill them.' Yet time and time again we see cases where the teens killed parents/siblings or both who came from good homes and had very loving supportive parents.

In many of these teen killer cases in recent years the motives are as non-sensical as the murders themselves. Right now on another thread there is a case where a 16 & 18 year old murdered five of their family members because they wanted to go out in the community and commit mass murder.

We have seen teens murder because they simply wanted to take the parents car/money and they knew the alive parents or grandparents would stop them from doing what they felt they were entitled to do. Nowadays the motives for a lot of these cases seems to be that the killer believed they were entitled to get their way even if it means to rape/murder to get it.

The motives I have seen in recent years concerning teen killers really frightens me because a lot of the motives were very trivial and mind boggling and that is putting it mildly.

For most of these teen killers it seems the threshold to crossover to the darkside to murder/rape or both is extremely low.

I dont fault this mom for what her he son did. I blame no one but AJG. I know she must love her son dearly and her world as she has always known it is shattered now too.

 

[justwannahelp]

GREAT POST. I totally understand what you are saying. My kids, now grown, ended up being wonderful, well adjusted, happy in their lives. Yet their teen years were very trying for me. My husband worked a lot so I was the one doing 'battle.' And there were some loud battles. It is not easy taking a cell phone away from a 14 yr old girl as punishment. The way she screamed you would have thought I was removing her kidney. Or try telling your 15 yr old son that he cannot have his 17 yr old girl 'friend' climbing through his bedroom window at midnight. He was ready to move out of the house he was so angry at us. Things were quite volatile and I lost my temper many times. I never hit my kids, ever. But I did raise my voice too many times.

If one of them was in trouble now, people could say ' I heard their parents screaming at them ' or their mom used to punish them 'unfairly. ' I am just relieved that they grew out of their teen angst and began to understand what we were trying to teach them.

Sounds like you did everything a good mom does! What mom DOESN'T raise her voice. I tugged at my 13 year old daughter's hair a few months ago. She made me so angry with her sassy back talk and eye rolling that I tugged it just like scarlet Ohara tugged her sister's hair when they were fighting over what Sue Ella called "her tacky green dress".

We laugh about it now, but I would think that most moms of teens lose their tempers to the point of yelling.

I don't drink much- maybe a glass of wine or 2 once a month at dinner with husband or a friend's dinner party etc - so I've never really "parented" while drinking wine. But I have many friends that drink a glass or 2 a night. I suppose I could see a mom under the influence of wine throwing her wine glass if her teen pushed her to the limit. I tugged a curl totally sober . I couldn't imagine my friends throwing a glass AT their teen, but I could see them throwing one on the ground if pushed to a limit. Teens are maddening no matter how much you love them! At least mine are. My sisterinlaw's teens, however, are like little angels. Mine are good kids in general- stay out of trouble so far and good grades etc but just very sassy and self absorbed. They're not depressed, though, so I thank God for that daily and pray that HE continues to protect them from the Devil.

But if my son turned out a killer, I guess the media could say I tugged my daughter's curl and yelled sometimes. I slam doors too 😁

 

[EllieBee]

I was never good with music abilities but drawing I could do when I was younger. I had to stop due to wrist issues and when I was able to get back into it I was so discouraged b/c I had been out of practice for so long and I still couldn't move my wrist completely that nothing I tried looked as good as it had once. Instead of keeping up with it I gave up until this summer. Each summer the kids and I pick a different summer project topic to do. Last yr it was science this yr they picked learning to draw. So they are forcing me to get back into it.

I am an artist and for many years as a young mom, felt I did not have the time to "indulge".

I just love that your kids are the catalyst for you picking up your old hobby!

I do think (and this is JMO from a very broad sketch) that AJG's mom encouraged his artistic endeavors, whatever they might have been.

Forgive me, though, and I don't mean to be a smart aleck, but Adrian has made yo-yoing just as creepy as clowns for me. The though of him standing next to her body in the dumpster he put her in after raping and brutally murdering her, and idly spinning a yo yo while pumping police for updates is so infuriating and CREEPY to me.

 

[EllieBee]

Sounds like you did everything a good mom does! What mom DOESN'T raise her voice. I tugged at my 13 year old daughter's hair a few months ago. She made me so angry with her sassy back talk and eye rolling that I tugged it just like scarlet Ohara tugged her sister's hair when they were fighting over what Sue Ella called "her tacky green dress".

We laugh about it now, but I would think that most moms of teens lose their tempers to the point of yelling.

I don't drink much- maybe a glass of wine or 2 once a month at dinner with husband or a friend's dinner party etc - so I've never really "parented" while drinking wine. But I have many friends that drink a glass or 2 a night. I suppose I could see a mom under the influence of wine throwing her wine glass if her teen pushed her to the limit. I tugged a curl totally sober . I couldn't imagine my friends throwing a glass AT their teen, but I could see them throwing one on the ground if pushed to a limit. Teens are maddening no matter how much you love them! At least mine are. My sisterinlaw's teens, however, are like little angels. Mine are good kids in general- stay out of trouble so far and good grades etc but just very sassy and self absorbed. They're not depressed, though, so I thank God for that daily and pray that HE continues to protect them from the Devil.

But if my son turned out a killer, I guess the media could say I tugged my daughter's curl and yelled sometimes. I slam doors too ��

Thanks for that moment of levity! I love that mean little yank on Sue Ellen's hair!

And may I say that I feel my chest expand a little knowing that other moms have hollered at their kids and slammed a door or two.

I know none of this is directly related to Maddy, but I do appreciate that we can empathize with AJG's mom.

And on that note, I cannot even fathom what Maddy's momma is going through. I am not ashamed to say I don't think I would survive this.

 

[EllieBee]

Just one more word on how awful teens can be, then I will stop:

My DD at 13 wanted to dye her hair black.

I knew it would look like Satan's backside, but because it is just hair, agreed. With one stipulation: that she use demi-permanent color. Which honestly, in a black shade is pretty much permanent. But not as damaging.

She proceeded to pull her best Meryl Streep on me and opine on my stifling her of her individuality. And how I did not appreciate her for who she really was.

Mind, you, I had given my okay, provided it was demi-permanent color.

At some point during the "woe is me" breast beating, I just said, "yeah, yah know, I think my snswer is just "no". "

You never heard such stomping and snarling. But she learned in later discussions to accept a compromise.

And I apologize, this has nothing to do with Maddy's case except to humanize parents. Even those who may raise a killer.

 

[gitana1]

SABBM

I know, right ? Since he was 'suicidal'; why not just 'off' himself , and leave everyone else alone ?
I hope he get life w/o parole, but I'm not going to hold my breath !!!
:moo:

That's my question. Why don't these supposedly suicidal killers never just kill themselves? Why is it so alluring to destroy others and ruin other people's lives?

And you just know all their neighbors will be traumatized for life and never feel the same again living their. Ripples of evil.

But he can't get LWOP because the Supreme Court ruled that is unconstitutional for minors.

So if he doesn't get LWOP, and Mady's parents don't attend parole hearings due to their pain etc, he will get out? The family of the victim HAS to attend the hearings in order to keep the murderer Rapist in jail? That doesn't make sense to me. To me, the judge or jury would use common sense and keep someone in jail for life because they committed such horrible crimes, (as AG did) thus are a major threat to society. It's not the same as a 13 year old that murders her father that has molested her all her life. She can be rehabilitated. Her crime was with a motive that applied to only that one person that harmed her.

What difference does it make if the family attends the parole hearings???!!! That's nuts. Besides seeking justice for the victim, the courts are supposed to protect society from violent child rapists!

You're right. They don't have to attend. If Maddy had no living relatives left I doubt they'd still ever let the guy out.

But of course most relatives do attend because they want to make sure. I know I would.

 

[justwannahelp]

I agree. Of course, if we find out that she was abusive and neglectful, then I will not be so compassionate towards her. But I do know a few wonderful people, who raised some great kids, only to have one of them end up being a sociopath. I know of two families like that. So I am not so quick to blame it on the parent that was raising the child.

I believe that genetics can have a huge influence in cases like this. kids can be born with the predisposal towards addiction/alcoholism. Not too far a stretch to think they could be born with a tendency to be callous/coldhearted.

Most children LOVE their family pets. They adore them and do everything to make them happy. They grieve deeply if the pet dies or becomes ill. But why is it that some very young children have no compassion/empathy for their pets and in fact injure them purposely for fun? It is very hard to explain that kind of behavior if the child was not being abused himself, imo.

Question in the pets thing. So I know killers often show their first signs of maybe becoming a killer in their childhood when they abuse animals. Well, my 3 year old threw a rock at our cat the other day. He missed, but I saw it and corrected him etc. He told me that he didn't like Dax and that Dax was mean to him so he threw at rock at him. But Dax was just sitting in the grass doing nothing. He was playing with a patch of clovers. I told my older kids about it and they said it wasn't the first time he threw something at him. Now, our cat does NOT like our three year old because he has annoyed him all through his toddler years trying to pick him up, squeezing his ears etc. His initial encounters were those if TRYING to show affection and Dax did not show any affection in return. Toddlers are often too rough with cats even though they mean, so Dax has given him a few little nip bites- nothing terrible. So is my 3 year old's randomly throwing half a brick at our cat anything to worry about?

 

[1&2&3]

Until we learn more about the mother, I can't put blame on her. Calling her feisty seeing her son arrested is not fair. If I was in her position, it would probably take a sedative and a straight jacket to calm me down.

It seems to me that AJG has been "crying out for help" for several years. His female friend saying he would tell her he was going to jump off the roof repeatedly is a sign to me that this kid wanted help and no one knew it. Of course not, two years ago, about 13 years old, kids do not know how to decipher these things. Heck, even adults miss the signs easily.

It will be interesting to find out what kind of relationship he had with his mother and the divorced father. He may have felt left out of Mom's life recently. What was the school culture like? It sounds like he did not feel as if he belonged.

Seriously though, for all the heinous things he did, something has been wrong with his thinking for a long time. I don't think you become this monster in a few weeks time. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I am an artist and for many years as a young mom, felt I did not have the time to "indulge".

I just love that your kids are the catalyst for you picking up your old hobby!

I do think (and this is JMO from a very broad sketch) that AJG's mom encouraged his artistic endeavors, whatever they might have been.

Forgive me, though, and I don't mean to be a smart aleck, but Adrian has made yo-yoing just as creepy as clowns for me. The though of him standing next to her body in the dumpster he put her in after raping and brutally murdering her, and idly spinning a yo yo while pumping police for updates is so infuriating and CREEPY to me.

It seems like the yo-yo thing would be something that little kids would admire. If he wanted to impress girls his own age, I highly doubt that yo-yoing would do the trick. It makes me think that he was targeting the young ones for awhile.

 

[gitana1]

Personally, I had no problems with my kids seeing sexy scenes in movies. Sex, in general, is not harmful. Where I have a problem is the mixture of violence and sex. That is very harmful to a developing psyche, imo.

I totally agree.

 

[gitana1]

That does not apply to adults, only juveniles who are being charged as juveniles.

No. That's not right. It applies to any juvenile, tried as an adult or not.

 

[katydid23]

Question in the pets thing. So I know killers often show their first signs of maybe becoming a killer in their childhood when they abuse animals. Well, my 3 year old threw a rock at our cat the other day. He missed, but I saw it and corrected him etc. He told me that he didn't like Dax and that Dax was mean to him so he threw at rock at him. But Dax was just sitting in the grass doing nothing. He was playing with a patch of clovers. I told my older kids about it and they said it wasn't the first time he threw something at him. Now, our cat does NOT like our three year old because he has annoyed him all through his toddler years trying to pick him up, squeezing his ears etc. His initial encounters were those if TRYING to show affection and Dax did not show any affection in return. Toddlers are often too rough with cats even though they mean, so Dax has given him a few little nip bites- nothing terrible. So is my 3 year old's randomly throwing half a brick at our cat anything to worry about?

I think it made sense of your 3 yr old to throw a rock if the cat was mean to him. :wink: The kid I was speaking about was caught sticking the cat in the butt with a sewing needle when he was about 6. I found that pretty extreme. And he used to catch flies and bugs in clear baggies, and then throw them into the fire to watch them burn. He poured salt on snails to watch them 'fizz up' as he called it. Then he poured salt in the dogs water to see if it affected him too. Very cruel kid.

 

[justwannahelp]

That's my question. Why don't these supposedly suicidal killers never just kill themselves? Why is it so alluring to destroy others and ruin other people's lives?

And you just know all their neighbors will be traumatized for life and never feel the same again living their. Ripples of evil.

But he can't get LWOP because the Supreme Court ruled that is unconstitutional for minors.



You're right. They don't have to attend. If Maddy had no living relatives left I doubt they'd still ever let the guy out.

But of course most relatives do attend because they want to make sure. I know I would.

Got it. Good! Thx for answering my question.

 

[anansie]

Until we learn more about the mother, I can't put blame on her. Calling her feisty seeing her son arrested is not fair. If I was in her position, it would probably take a sedative and a straight jacket to calm me down.

It seems to me that AJG has been "crying out for help" for several years. His female friend saying he would tell her he was going to jump off the roof repeatedly is a sign to me that this kid wanted help and no one knew it. Of course not, two years ago, about 13 years old, kids do not know how to decipher these things. Heck, even adults miss the signs easily.

It will be interesting to find out what kind of relationship he had with his mother and the divorced father. He may have felt left out of Mom's life recently. What was the school culture like? It sounds like he did not feel as if he belonged.

Seriously though, for all the heinous things he did, something has been wrong with his thinking for a long time. I don't think you become this monster in a few weeks time. JMO

I did not call her feisty just based on her seeing her son getting arrested. I said she seemed feisty but that was based on her online profile, her past run ins with the law and the type of problems they were. And maybe I'm wrong in my judgement. Hence I said she "seems". To me.

And by the way, what's the problem with being feisty? :-/ I don't see being called feisty as an insult. And I wish I were feistier sometimes. I'm not feisty but have friends who are and they are great fun.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[helpfulcharlie]

On bad parenting: my parents were ****** parents. They were young and stupid. There was violence, alcoholism, and neglect. There was also exposure to sexually explicit materials, not intentional but not protected enough either, and way too early. My brother and I didn't turn out to be murderous rapist pedophiles. I doubt there was anything the parents did to cause his disorder. Sometimes people are just crazy. If any of his behavior was learned, the person who transferred that knowledge to him is probably sweating right now. But more than likely, a chemical or neurological disorder in the brain is causing misfires, what we used to call crazy. The truth is, if we knew what caused people to do this heinous ****, we'd be able to fix it by now.

 

[justwannahelp]

I think it made sense of your 3 yr old to throw a rock if the cat was mean to him. :wink: The kid I was speaking about was caught sticking the cat in the butt with a sewing needle when he was about 6. I found that pretty extreme. And he used to catch flies and bugs in clear baggies, and then throw them into the fire to watch them burn. He poured salt on snails to watch them 'fizz up' as he called it. Then he poured salt in the dogs water to see if it affected him too. Very cruel kid.

Ok good. I think reading about Brandon scott Laverne desecrating graves and all the other serial killer childhood fetishes has made me paranoid. Today we caught clam diggers all day on the shoreline and he was very careful not to squeeze them and when we had to go back to the room I told them we had to dump the bucket out because they would all die if we didn't. He complied kindly and dumped the bucket in the surf and said "bye cute little diggers" lol. So he's sweet to little creatures- just not our cat : /

I guess he's just mad that the cat doesn't like him and ignores him. But still, Seeing him throw that brick unprovoked in that moment just made me really paranoid--that sweet little face just throwing that brick😯