CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[cvaldez1975]

its so cold rn that it will prob warm up if it rains (I know, some states have blizzards.. CA is babies when cold)

They have been so good, keeping us apprised, the weather is the pitts. These folks have to be so wiped emotionally and physically

just been a horrible story

 

[human]

The concept isn't a bad one. It was just the execution that was riddled with fault. Had the tenants been more mindful of the hoarding and jerryrigging, the outcome would have been different. It could and would never pass code, but with less stuff, more lighting, alarms, extinguishers, and attention to structure and wiring, there is some measure of safety. Would there have been loss of life? Probably, but not on the same scale.

Exactly. Cities all over the US have provided decent housing for artists such as the Cannery in Santa Cruz.

First, Derrick was so entitled that he charged the rent and had enough to provide hotel stays and a nice SUV fir himself. I imagine the drugs he used were not free.

Perhaps he could have worked with the owner to try to get the warehouse changed to a living space legally with all of the proper codes. I have no idea how the area is zoned..

I think most places do not allow spot zoning. This means you cannot ask for one space to be changed from commercial to residential , for instance. So if that is the case, a whole area would have to be changed in zoning and that would require lots of hearings. So not easy.

In life, I have found I can't always get what I want. Strange , huh. And sometimes things take time and are complicated and take a lot of work. As he and his wife were not employed, time should be available.

I get a sense of entitlement vibe. Allowing cat feces to pile up and cats to pee all over everything, Yum.

Micah offered her Balinese beds for sex at a party they were throwing. Yum. Beds that were covered with cat pee.

I have to admit that I am not objective. I know so many people who come from privileged lives that become "spiritually" enlightened and feel they are so above the petty rules of life

They take and take and never give back but yet talk about how superior they are. They are too creative to be in the rat race of life like the rest of us.

I am living in a Third World nation that is an expensive tourist destination, There are these American and European "spiritually enlightened people who live here and only take. Then there are all of the wealthy kids and adults with trust funds that come here so I am jaded to the max. They talk about their crystals and touching the earth barefoot and yoga and on and on, never doing anything but meeting their wants

 

[cvaldez1975]

Cash Askew is the one my friend knows the family. they are broken hearted.

For trans women killed by Oakland fire, struggle for respect continues in death

 

[cvaldez1975]

I agree. because Oakland is large and mainly old, the code enforcement and permit departments have their work cut out for them. and the mayor again does not directly manage these departments, although yes ultimately, they are under the mayor.

That's exactly how I've seen it too. I also feel that the percentage of blame should be something like Derick Ion at least 50% and probably more, the owner about 30% and the city/tenants no more than 20%. That could change as more facts come out about the 30 pages of citations the mayor released. We shall see. But Ion is the person mainly responsible.

 

[rsd1200]

So, it is ok that Derrick benefited financially from renting an illegal space? And these people's lives are so worthlessthat they think living like that is acceptable? Wow.

I understand rents are ridiculous, but to choose to live in that kind of filth and unsafe conditions blows my mind.

There are many communities across the US that have made art places to live. Like the Cannery in Santa Cruz.

I was an art teacher for awhile and most of us art majors realized that we needed a day job and that few of us would ever make it.

There are places such as Lanesboro in Minnesota or art colonies in Wisconsin or Eureka springs , Arkansas that have reasonable rents or wven cheapeer to buy a house.

It seens like art people always open up new communities such as Eureka Springs to being a go to place. Maybe it is time for some art people to make new horizons and not get stuck living in garbage heaps.

Refugees have left war torn hell to start new lives. Maybe some of these artists could think about their privilege .

It seems they keep getting pushed out of the communities by people willing to pay higher rent. I read about one woman who had rented in the same place for seven years, and then got a rent increase of $3,000. and they tacked on an additional couple thousand to her security that she was going to have to come up with. She couldn't do it and was having to find a new place to live and there was just nothing in the neighborhood in her price range any longer. People have jobs in the locations, and moving out of the area with long commutes cut into their income. It also causes a lack of employees in the areas that they leave. Baristas, servers, CNAs, etc.. can't afford to commute long distances in these cities so there's a lack of employees for service industry positions. Also, coming up with first, last, and deposit, while your paying rent where you're at, is kinda tough for some folks so they do what they feel is their only choice at the time. I know of someone who was living in one room shack with dirt flooring, and no indoor plumbing, and it's the 21st century. They were living within their means.

I kind of think they hope the warehouses will turn into something like you are talking about, however, the sub-letters/owners just don't share their optimism.

Toward the end of the interview, this young lady kind of describes what it is like finding housing,
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-Warehouse-Fire-Survivors-404827066.html

And this fella describes where he's lived and why:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...nverted-Warehouses-in-San-Jose-405157435.html

 

[human]

Here is the Tannery in Santa Cruz, There are places like this all over the US.

Most of them probably don't come with the resident guru who is in charge.

http://tanneryartscenter.org

 

[human]

It seems they keep getting pushed out of the communities by people willing to pay higher rent. I read about one woman who had rented in the same place for seven years, and then got a rent increase of $3,000. and they tacked on an additional couple thousand to her security that she was going to have to come up with. She couldn't do it and was having to find a new place to live and there was just nothing in the neighborhood in her price range any longer. People have jobs in the locations, and moving out of the area with long commutes cut into their income. It also causes a lack of employees in the areas that they leave. Baristas, servers, CNAs, etc.. can't afford to commute long distances in these cities so there's a lack of employees for service industry positions. Also, coming up with first, last, and deposit, while your paying rent where you're at, is kinda tough for some folks so they do what they feel is their only choice at the time. I know of someone who was living in one room shack with dirt flooring, and no indoor plumbing, and it's the 21st century. They were living within their means.

I kind of think they hope the warehouses will turn into something like you are talking about, however, the sub-letters/owners just don't share their optimism.

Toward the end of the interview, this young lady kind of describes what it is like finding housing,
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-Warehouse-Fire-Survivors-404827066.html

And this fella describes where he's lived and why:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...nverted-Warehouses-in-San-Jose-405157435.html

Perhaps instead of waiting for someone to do something, they could do something. Perhaps they could contact other places to see how it was done. Santa Cruz is even in CA so it would be more relevant than something in Minnesota.

I am jaded. The sense of entitlement gets to me. Do something then! People do it all over the US. It is not a new concept

 

[rsd1200]

They are saying the search has ended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTcw8_t7A_8

 

[cvaldez1975]

can anyone catch a still of this pallet staircase?

Around 2:12 the person goes down the pallet stairway - I think. As they reach the bottom you see the No Smoking sign which is by the area with the toaster oven and fire extinguisher (pic posted by CoreyRocks in the last thread). Is this possibly where the fridge was? It's hard to tell since parts of the video are dark and there's no option to pause or slow it down like you can on YouTube. Around 2:55 you catch a glimpse of what might be a fridge. I dunno.

From the video it's clear that the condition of the warehouse was way worse than the pics on the web site. Now I understand what the former residents were talking about.

I'm curious about where the DJ plugged in his equipment in relation to the fridge and burnt wall area. If he plugged stuff in on the same circuit it's likely the overload caused the cords to overheat. Sigh. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Sending good thoughts to Gitana and her brother. :loveyou:

 

[Inthedetails]

Perhaps instead of waiting for someone to do something, they could do something. Perhaps they could contact other places to see how it was done. Santa Cruz is even in CA so it would be more relevant than something in Minnesota.

I am jaded. The sense of entitlement gets to me. Do something then! People do it all over the US. It is not a new concept

I'm a "do it" person too. But, keep in mind that some of these residents might not have the wherewithal to do it. It sounds like many of the residents were living on the edge. If you grew up living on the edge and in one unstable situation to another, you might not know what to do, other than "stick it to the man" and/or take advantage of whatever good deals that come along. When a "guru" come along - with charisma - they can be pulled into thinking: well, I'll just go along with whatever this guy is providing, and I'm not going to rock the boat on this good trip.

Other residents might have thought it was a temporary thing for themselves, so no real incentive to make change.

My gut tells me the people in that place who had the capabilities to "make changes" were the people who got out of there quickly - that was how they made a change. They saw it for what it was and moved on to something more stable.... you know, a place with a real stairway and sewage.

jmopinion

 

[human]

Here is info on artspaces and info on low income housing credits

Examples of people doing something .

http://www.artspace.org/ideas-insights/artist-preference-affordable-housing

 

[cvaldez1975]

repairs are the woner's responsibility. I live in Bay Area too though and let me tell you, we do our own repairs and try to avoid contact w landlords. they jack your rent up either way but if you bug them they jack it up so high you have to move so they can get a tenant who doesn't complain.

I don't know what kind of contract he had with the owner, but aren't structural repairs of a building the responsibility of the owner? What was Derick Ion repairing? Furniture? Jerry-rigged contraptions that he had added around there?

 

[cvaldez1975]

while the mayor has been very graceful, the housing costs are a real problem for non upper middle class ppl. their anger is misplaced, but they are prob panicking and thinking they will lose their place to live.

Oakland Mayor Shouted Down at Vigil for Warehouse Fire Victims

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oakland-mayor-shouted-down-vigil-warehouse-fire-victims-n692381

A vigil in honor of victims of the deadly Oakland, California, warehouse fire briefly turned into a political confrontation Monday night as saddened, angry participants shouted down the city's mayor with obscenities and boos.

Amid an emotional outpouring from people who knew the victims, some speakers urged the city to protect "nontraditional warehouse residences" and "fringe places" where some Oaklanders have sought shelter as the city's housing costs skyrocket.


Vigil participants shouted "Stop victim blaming!" and "Step down!" as Schaaf prepared to speak, leading one of the organizers to ask that she be given a respectful hearing.

[ wow...tough crowd....]

 

[alucardsdream]

its so cold rn that it will prob warm up if it rains (I know, some states have blizzards.. CA is babies when cold)

In Phoenix it's pretty much a state of emergency anytime it goes below 65. We're definitely babies about the cold!

I know the rainy weather isn't great, but for the families and community in mourning, it probably matches their mood. It always seems slightly off-kilter when you're dealing with any kind of horrible tragedy and the weather is beautiful and sunny.

 

[human]

I'm a "do it" person too. But, keep in mind that some of these residents might not have the wherewithal to do it. It sounds like many of the residents were living on the edge. If you grew up living on the edge and in one unstable situation to another, you might not know what to do, other than "stick it to the man" and/or take advantage of whatever good deals that come along. When a "guru" come along - with charisma - they can be pulled into thinking: well, I'll just go along with whatever this guy is providing, and I'm not going to rock the boat on this good trip.

Other residents might have thought it was a temporary thing for themselves, so no real incentive to make change.

My gut tells me the people in that place who had the capabilities to "make changes" were the people who got out of there quickly - that was how they made a change. They saw it for what it was and moved on to something more stable.... you know, a place with a real stairway and sewage.

jmopinion

I am really sick right now of the takers I see so that is why I have this bad attitude. Those who could get out maybe could think about helping others.

There are so many people that do try to improve life for others and I give them my highest praise.

There are wo many people that are adrift that do gravitate to a guru be it an alternative or some more mainstream which I will not say but think of making millions of dollars from people believing what one says.

Now that Oakland has had it shown that there is a desperate need, I hope community organizers will arise. But there are those people that will not be willing to adhere to "no drug" rules that they will be seeking out non resrtive spaces.

 

[verbonica]

Perhaps instead of waiting for someone to do something, they could do something. Perhaps they could contact other places to see how it was done. Santa Cruz is even in CA so it would be more relevant than something in Minnesota.

I am jaded. The sense of entitlement gets to me. Do something then! People do it all over the US. It is not a new concept

bbm

I don't think that you are jaded. Perhaps you mean that you are fed up and cynical, but:
jaded:
1.dulled or satiated by overindulgence:
2.worn out or wearied, as by overwork or overuse.
3.dissipated


It sounds like you are acutely interested in the problem.

 

[Rallibella]

repairs are the woner's responsibility. I live in Bay Area too though and let me tell you, we do our own repairs and try to avoid contact w landlords. they jack your rent up either way but if you bug them they jack it up so high you have to move so they can get a tenant who doesn't complain.

Yes, but the owner doesn't have to repair a warehouse up to residential standards.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am really sick right now of the takers I see so that is why I have this bad attitude. Those who could get out maybe could think about helping others.

There are so many people that do try to improve life for others and I give them my highest praise.

There are wo many people that are adrift that do gravitate to a guru be it an alternative or some more mainstream which I will not say but think of making millions of dollars from people believing what one says.

Now that Oakland has had it shown that there is a desperate need, I hope community organizers will arise. But there are those people that will not be willing to adhere to "no drug" rules that they will be seeking out non resrtive spaces.

I totally get what you're saying. Totally.

But there are people who don't want to work within the system. Either they don't know how to work within the system as they've never known how to....or they reject it and simply don't want to.

Even if there were affordable and super-cool places for artists and others who want to live a certain lifestyle....there still would be people who don't take advantage or it or don't want to.

Not saying that good places shouldn't exist (and I applaud people who work on that), but rather trying to understand that there will always be people who prefer (for whatever reason) to jerry-rig a life out of scraps.

jmo

 

[rsd1200]

OMG! Were they doing animal sacrifices too in there?

'Lisa is complaining about the tv but I'm not coming to you complaining when she is dripping blood in the sitting room after coming back from one of her rituals?'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Oakland-warehouse-36-died.html#ixzz4S9rQE1Vx
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There's some Hindu related items in the photos of the GS. One of which is shiva the destroyer. Hindus offer shiva sacrifices which can be food items or animal sacrifices. I think Ion and his s/o may possibly have been enamored w/Hinduism. Is it possible there could have been some type of blood sacrifices? Personally, I'd not rule it out, after what I've read (and seen in the GS pics).

 

[human]

while the mayor has been very graceful, the housing costs are a real problem for non upper middle class ppl. their anger is misplaced, but they are prob panicking and thinking they will lose their place to live.

What is the answer? Providing affordable housing of course. But I think some of these people want the freedom to do as they please which includes drug use and parties such as Micah has on her FB. That probably is not going to work out.

After this fire there are the families traumatized forever. The firefighters traumatized for ever. Imagine using buckets to do the job they had to do.