CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[cvaldez1975]

my step daughter, her fiancée and her daughter live in a garage studio apt and pay 1300.

I watched a clip from Inside Edition on YouTube a while back (https://youtu.be/qgau4LXx19o) where they interviewed a single mom who was paying $1000 a month to live in someone's garage in Silicon Valley. She said she simply couldn't afford anything else since rents in the area have reached astronomical rates. I have a feeling the tenants of the warehouse were in a similar predicament.

 

[human]

I totally get what you're saying. Totally.

But there are people who don't want to work within the system. Either they don't know how to work within the system as they've never known how to....or they reject it and simply don't want to.

Even if there were affordable and super-cool places for artists and others who want to live a certain lifestyle....there still would be people who don't take advantage or it or don't want to.

Not saying that good places shouldn't exist (and I applaud people who work on that), but rather trying to understand that there will always be people who prefer (for whatever reason) to jerry-rig a life out of scraps.

jmo

Exactly. And therein lies the problem. So what does a community do? Turn a blind eye and then when the horror of something that happened like in Oakland, everyone sees the cost it takes on people emotionally?

What is the answer?

 

[monkeypants]

my step daughter, her fiancée and her daughter live in a garage studio apt and pay 1300.

I couldn't ever do that personally. I would relocate out of state if necessary. I don't get suffering for a town/state. This country is HUGE!!

 

[cvaldez1975]

lol we do our own repairs (replaced the sink disposer, both pumps in the toilets after a lovely 500 water bill from them running, among other things) and all that gets us is our newest lease was an increase of 200 the first year and another 200 the second. if you bug the landlord in this area, they price you out. the owner could get 3500 for my house rn if they got rid of us. we pay 2800. I don't even bring home that much. oh and most landlords require you to make 3x the rent and have excellent credit, neither of which we have.

I know that Derick was not the owner. Rental/Leasing contracts can have all sorts of provisions and variables in them. I had relatives who lived in rental homes for years and they always got a break on their rent because he did the minor repairs -- nothing structural -- just minor stuff, but I just wondered what Derick's contract might say about repairs.

 

[rsd1200]

What's the oxymoron?

Arreguín said the fire shouldn't be used as a pretext to shut down nontraditional living spaces like old warehouses."Artists must have a safe place to live and to work," he said to loud cheers.

As much as I sympathize with the need for a roof over your head that you can afford, the majority of these old non-traditional warehouses that he doesn't want shut down b/c artists need a safe place to live...are not "safe" places to live, they've just not caught fire yet. He's contradicting himself.

 

[cvaldez1975]

it is entirely possible the tenants didn't throw that crap there (at least not all) international blvd is very bad area. it is not uncommon to see mattresses and sofas just thrown there. they charge an assload to haul them off, ppl are poor so they chuck them.

Exterior violations, right? Nothing interior.

This is how govt has to operate. Everything documented and then legal amount of times to respond. Always giving people time to comply id they are cooperating.

I am angry at those tenants who think it is perfectly acceptable to turn the outdoor space into a garbage heap. Such entitlement. Being poor does not mean you live like a pig and spread your garbage.

Although there are rich people that live like pigs as well.,

The obvious sense of entitlment comes out loud and clear.

They are off in their age of enlightment. So important. Can't be bothered with not trashing everything around them,

 

[rsd1200]

I know that Derick was not the owner. Rental/Leasing contracts can have all sorts of provisions and variables in them. I had relatives who lived in rental homes for years and they always got a break on their rent because he did the minor repairs -- nothing structural -- just minor stuff, but I just wondered what Derick's contract might say about repairs.

I'd venture a guess that it doesn't not say that he was allowed to sublet. Most landlords frown on that. I've read that his landlord is out of the country. How true that is, I do not know.

 

[cvaldez1975]

thank you, you summed it up perfectly. and when ppl complain they want a living wage they are told "well you settled, you should have gotten an ivy league education like me! #looksdownnose well who would then provide these services you like so much cuz if we have to move to the valley we sure aint gonna commute here to serve you.

It seems they keep getting pushed out of the communities by people willing to pay higher rent. I read about one woman who had rented in the same place for seven years, and then got a rent increase of $3,000. and they tacked on an additional couple thousand to her security that she was going to have to come up with. She couldn't do it and was having to find a new place to live and there was just nothing in the neighborhood in her price range any longer. People have jobs in the locations, and moving out of the area with long commutes cut into their income. It also causes a lack of employees in the areas that they leave. Baristas, servers, CNAs, etc.. can't afford to commute long distances in these cities so there's a lack of employees for service industry positions. Also, coming up with first, last, and deposit, while your paying rent where you're at, is kinda tough for some folks so they do what they feel is their only choice at the time. I know of someone who was living in one room shack with dirt flooring, and no indoor plumbing, and it's the 21st century. They were living within their means.

I kind of think they hope the warehouses will turn into something like you are talking about, however, the sub-letters/owners just don't share their optimism.

Toward the end of the interview, this young lady kind of describes what it is like finding housing,
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-Warehouse-Fire-Survivors-404827066.html

And this fella describes where he's lived and why:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...nverted-Warehouses-in-San-Jose-405157435.html

 

[cvaldez1975]

this is a brilliant concept, but its limited. the Bay Area has a well documented lack of affordable housing.

Here is the Tannery in Santa Cruz, There are places like this all over the US.

Most of them probably don't come with the resident guru who is in charge.

http://tanneryartscenter.org

 

[human]

it is entirely possible the tenants didn't throw that crap there (at least not all) international blvd is very bad area. it is not uncommon to see mattresses and sofas just thrown there. they charge an assload to haul them off, ppl are poor so they chuck them.

I lived in MN in an area that was right by a beautiful scenic drive. People were always throwing trash and furniture appliances, rugs, etc.

In our area, you had to pay your own garbage. There are other states and areas where garbage is not a choice. It is a bill you pay no matter what. Here in my Third World country where I rent, we have garbage service three days a week and it is required by everyone.

Once in awhile and I do not know when as I don't have the issue, people pile up their bigger items and they are picked up.

This is true in other communities in the US as well.

Getting rid of large items should be something a community provides for. As the citiation for the Ghost Ship exterior stated junk thrown out is a home for vectors. That means lovely things such as rats.

A community benefits from not having garbage piled up.

 

[alucardsdream]

Arreguín said the fire shouldn't be used as a pretext to shut down nontraditional living spaces like old warehouses."Artists must have a safe place to live and to work," he said to loud cheers.

As much as I sympathize with the need for a roof over your head that you can afford, the majority of these old non-traditional warehouses that he doesn't want shut down b/c artists need a safe place to live...are not "safe" places to live, they've just not caught fire yet. He's contradicting himself.

One thing to keep in mind is that the place wasn't being used only as a residence. And while it undoubtedly was not fit for living, the problem was compounded by the fact that it was being used as a concert venue as well. I'm not saying it wouldn't have caught fire if the only people there that night were the ones who lived there, but the death toll probably wouldn't have been nearly as high. The fact that it was operating as both a private residence and a public arena put many people at risk...the tenants, the concert attendees, and the first responders who tried to save them.

 

[Spellbound]

The coroner's office has completed autopsies on half the 36 victims, said Alameda County Sheriff's Office spokesman J.D. Nelson. He said 35 had been identified, and the families of 30 notified.
Nelson said smoke inhalation, typical for a major fire of this kind, was found to be the cause of death in all those examined.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-fire-idUSKBN13V1UI

 

[human]

I'd venture a guess that it doesn't not say that he was allowed to sublet. Most landlords frown on that. I've read that his landlord is out of the country. How true that is, I do not know.

He could not sublet as it was not residential. It is a warehouse space

 

[rsd1200]

The concept isn't a bad one. It was just the execution that was riddled with fault. Had the tenants been more mindful of the hoarding and jerryrigging, the outcome would have been different. It could and would never pass code, but with less stuff, more lighting, alarms, extinguishers, and attention to structure and wiring, there is some measure of safety. Would there have been loss of life? Probably, but not on the same scale.

.
I posted the link to an interview with tenants, one of the tenants said they had fire extinguishers, and fire alarms. If they'd had normal stairs, un- barred 2nd floor windows, and well marked exits things could have been better. There could still have been loss of life but not this staggering number. I read on the FB site that night, that there was a hidden door behind where the band played, that led into another building. The guy was trying to get it out there to somehow let folks know about it. Had that been common knowledge, and well marked, (if indeed it existed), it could have possibly saved lives.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I totally understand. I was speaking of residences, its the same there.

Yes, but the owner doesn't have to repair a warehouse up to residential standards.

 

[human]

this is a brilliant concept, but its limited. the Bay Area has a well documented lack of affordable housing.

So the warehouses cannot be turned into housing like has been done in other areas all over the US?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I totally agree w you about this particular guy. one of the articles said this is a perfect example of someone taking advantage of those who have less choices (as in poor and cant afford market rate rent)

What is the answer? Providing affordable housing of course. But I think some of these people want the freedom to do as they please which includes drug use and parties such as Micah has on her FB. That probably is not going to work out.

After this fire there are the families traumatized forever. The firefighters traumatized for ever. Imagine using buckets to do the job they had to do.

 

[cvaldez1975]

we don't have family anywhere else. its scary to move to the unknown. we ourselves personally cant move because of joint custody.

I couldn't ever do that personally. I would relocate out of state if necessary. I don't get suffering for a town/state. This country is HUGE!!

 

[human]

we don't have family anywhere else. its scary to move to the unknown. we ourselves personally cant move because of joint custody.

The joint custody is a situation that cannot be overcome. But moving someday may be a good choice. There are beautiful places all over the US.

 

[Thyme]

Can someone tell me what the circle objects are? The stairs - are those slates in the center of image one also stairs? Thanks.