Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[kittythehare]

How many dogs played there?
What breed dogs were they?
Why were there 'piles of earth ' in the yard?
What purpose did they serve?

 

[PommyMommy]

I listened again, definitely dogs pleural... no way it was dolls,, no.. dolls don't run around.

It does sound that way but we have seen this video previously and there was just one dog.

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

 

[Knox]

The only problem with that video is that TW said the boys went missing around 4:30 or 5:00, before it got dark. It doesn't show either of them looking before that so we don't know what they were doing for the 30 or 40 minutes before he got in the van and drove around for six minutes.

Then when he gets back to the house JW doesn't appear to come out to see if he has found them, and neither of them appear to search for the ten minutes it takes for police to arrive. IMO

IMO, Walker is addressing the timeline issue of the 911 call and the time officers arrived on the scene. The video recording system apparently is off by one hour.

Just because he validates what TW said he did prior to calling 911, doesn’t mean LE believes his explanation of how the boys went missing.

 

[PommyMommy]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO, Walker is addressing the timeline issue of the 911 call and the time officers arrived on the scene. The video recording system apparently is off by one hour.

Just because he validates what TW said he did prior to calling 911, doesn’t mean LE believes his explanation of how the boys went missing.

Yes, of course. Sometimes LE does not want to alert a suspect that they are investigating them.

I know the timestamp is off by an hour but I was referring to real time. So when it starts around 4:20 it's really around 5:20. So we don't know if the video actually matches up to the parent's statements because it does not show the time period between 4:30 and the time it shows TW come outside.

ETA Also, even with the time difference it was still at least 45 minutes before TW called police, not right away, like he said in his interview. That might be why he did not answer the question when asked twice what time they called to report them missing.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

It's interesting that all four children said they saw the boys on the 19th, the day they went to Bakersfield. I wonder if they said the boys went with them or not.

 

[Knox]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

Did the relative the boys were dropped off with see the boys?

 

[MsBetsy]

Did the relative the boys were dropped off with see the boys?

That must be the grandparent who saw them in Bakersfield. I wonder why the chief revealed when the children last saw them and not the grandmother.

Do we know if both grandparents live there? Was it the paternal or maternal grandparents they went to visit?

 

[elliefant]

Somebody suggested previously O&O could in fact have got in and out of the van (trip to grandparents) but were shorter than the fence and hence not seen on video - is that a possibility or not?

 

[kittythehare]

It does sound that way but we have seen this video previously and there was just one dog.

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

I watched that whole thing and the only dog I saw was the small bull breed at the cctv owner's house.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Dbm

 

[PommyMommy]

Did the relative the boys were dropped off with see the boys?

As MsBetsy suggested, that would line up with the grandmother's sighting but the "four children go into the van" is really throwing me off. And, only TW and JW return... ?

Somebody suggested previously O&O could in fact have got in and out of the van (trip to grandparents) but were shorter than the fence and hence not seen on video - is that a possibility or not?

I don't think so. I can see the bottom of the door to the van when it opens and the boys are taller than that.

I watched that whole thing and the only dog I saw was the small bull breed at the cctv owner's house.

It's at about 13:53 but you won't be able to tell what kind of dog it is. The video is too blurry.

All MOO

 

[elliefant]

Thanks Pommy.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks Pommy.

You're welcome. I'm sitting here waiting for the light bulb to come on but nothing is happening...........

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Me too pommy. I can’t sleep so I’m thinking. Thinking more. Still thinking. Is it too late to hold out for a miracle? That these boys are still alive somewhere due to foul play. But how and why? I think we can narrow down “when” to a two day window. What day did the lady’s mom say she saw the kids in Bakersfield (tip w/pi)?

eta: Correction:
Garcia says he met a woman in California City who said her mother saw the boys at the Albertson's parking lot in Tehachapi on December 23.

"She said that once she saw the news report about the missing boys, that she was sure that, that was the boys, with these two adults, which were both male," Garcia, Owner of Bill Garcia Investigative Services, said.
Private investigator searches for missing boys in Tehachapi after tip

*Truth be told ~ this is my only holdout for a miracle as I previously speculated: boys sold/given away? to same sex couple who want to have family but can’t meet requirements.

 

[elliefant]

You're welcome. I'm sitting here waiting for the light bulb to come on but nothing is happening...........

Me too; if TW & JW are responsible for this I feel like all possibilities are still on the table from leaving them unattended and them wandering off (but why unfound?), to accidental death, to selling them (sceptical of this one), to murder, and so on. Hard to rule anything out.

 

[kittythehare]

It does appear as though LE are slowly drip releasing more information, based on last night, does it not?
6 people left, only 2 returned and they were the adults.
Apparently.
Several people on the street have CCTV cameras acc to video linked from earlier.. the long drawn out video..
So his is not the only footage they have.
Dogs tracking-negative.
Luminol- negative but that would only be positive in a case of a bloodless murder, if that is what happened.
Did they employ any babysitters since they arrived in SC?
They were back very promptly after that alleged shopping trip... would have been as easy to bring the little ones along, I imagine?
Where EXACTLY were the little ones that day?
I just HOPE the CCTV across the street caught more..

 

[Lyanna]

Me too; if TW & JW are responsible for this I feel like all possibilities are still on the table from leaving them unattended and them wandering off (but why unfound?), to accidental death, to selling them (sceptical of this one), to murder, and so on. Hard to rule anything out.

Right so this is probably going to be way off the bat but thinking of all possible scenarios, say all 6 children did go Christmas shopping on 19th - that would be hard to do, assuming that TW and JW are buying presents for the children. They could have dropped the children off with someone so they could do the shopping without them, it would certainly be easier and quicker - there have been many occasions where we have babysat for nieces and nephews for the day, overnight and the following day, so Mum and Dad could do the kiddos present shopping. Maybe the little ones have been kidnapped, but a few days earlier and the AP didn't want to admit to that for whatever reason. I know its VERY unlikely but just wanted to consider all possible scenarios.

Just thoughts and speculation.

 

[kittythehare]

Right so this is probably going to be way off the bat but thinking of all possible scenarios, say all 6 children did go Christmas shopping on 19th - that would be hard to do, assuming that TW and JW are buying presents for the children. They could have dropped the children off with someone so they could do the shopping without them, it would certainly be easier and quicker - there have been many occasions where we have babysat for nieces and nephews for the day, overnight and the following day, so Mum and Dad could do the kiddos present shopping. Maybe the little ones have been kidnapped, but a few days earlier and the AP didn't want to admit to that for whatever reason. I know its VERY unlikely but just wanted to consider all possible scenarios.

Just thoughts and speculation.

well, they dropped the 4 older children off for a few days hholiday.
It would be simple enough to make purchases for a 3 and a 4 yr old without them noticing very much, it is easy to distract them, particularly in a toy shop.
So easy, in fact that the excuse for leaving them outside in the yards while present were being wrapped sounds quite pathetic when one thinks about it.. like really feeble.
I assume they had bedtimes, couldn't the present wrapping have waited until then?
It was cold outside.
They said.
I can only see one way forward here but no idea where or how evidence can be found without a definite sighting date and time.

 

[Lyanna]

well, they dropped the 4 older children off for a few days hholiday.
It would be simple enough to make purchases for a 3 and a 4 yr old without them noticing very much, it is easy to distract them, particularly in a toy shop.
So easy, in fact that the excuse for leaving them outside in the yards while present were being wrapped sounds quite pathetic when one thinks about it.. like really feeble.
I assume they had bedtimes, couldn't the present wrapping have waited until then?
It was cold outside.
They said.
I can only see one way forward here but no idea where or how evidence can be found without a definite sighting date and time.

Yea I know, just trying to think of any and all scenarios cos little children shouldn't be disappeared ever, particularly by those in a position of trust, and by those who have offered a place of safety, a place of stability and a place of love.
Do you know, I am actually losing faith in people.