Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[NCHydrangea]

This is Bayan’s response to my message to him. I asked him about more recent photos of the boys, and if anyone knew how many car seats were in the van:

edited because I don’t know what I’m doing.

 

[tatertot]

So the boys' four siblings say they last saw them on Dec. 19. LE has always been extremely cautious about releasing any statements as to when the boys were last seen by G'ma and the non-relative in Bakersfield. Not sure that LE would share this new information with the public if they felt the kids were lying or were mistaken about the date.

This is not an accusation, just an idea: What if one or both of the boys was injured, not to a life-threatening degree but in a way that could have caused the parents to fear they'd be investigated with the children temporarily taken from them, or even that they'd be wrongly blamed? Scenarios like a dog bite or bruising from a scuffle with siblings (the latter happened more than once when we had four boys 10 and under, complete with bruises and scrapes.) So they sent the two boys off to stay with someone they knew well until the visible evidence of the injury will be gone, only someone else requested to see the boys and they panicked, creating the story of their disappearance and, ironically, a bigger investigation than the one they tried to avoid. It's...not a good scenario but if it was the case, whoever they're staying with could just drop them off safely at an attended police or fire station. That new date at least suggests there's hope.

 

[NCHydrangea]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

OK
So security cam shows only 4 children getting into the van on Dec 19. Only TW and JW come back home. The other 4 children say that they saw the boys on Dec 19. Wonder where they saw the boys? They weren’t supposed to be on “vacation” at Grandma’s with the other 4, so where were they?

Did the AP leave the boys home alone on the 19th?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If that's what the security footage shows - and it's not a fact that's what it shows until stated by LE - LE would have confronted the AP with this footage. The AP would have had to try to explain it. I wonder if those interviews were recorded, what they said. All JMO.

 

[susiQ]

OK
So security cam shows only 4 children getting into the van on Dec 19. Only TW and JW come back home. The other 4 children say that they saw the boys on Dec 19. Wonder where they saw the boys? They weren’t supposed to be on “vacation” at Grandma’s with the other 4, so where were they?

Did the AP leave the boys home alone on the 19th?

RBBM
If this were the case though, and they were not abducted on the 21st or any day, wouldn’t there be video of them taking the boys out of the house before the 21st? Alive or in a container of some sort? (hate typing that). Or, backing the van into the back gate and taking them out unnoticed through the backyard?

I don’t know what to think anymore.

 

[MoeInVA]

Great posts and takeaways all! Will add my questions to yours...

• Has LE found any evidence that O and O left the house alive on the 19th?
• Where exactly did the siblings last see the boys on the 19th?
• When and where exactly did grandma last see the boys?
• For both: what was the boys’ condition?
• What is the date of the most recent photo of the boys discovered during the investigation? Most recent surveillance footage of the boys? What was boys’ condition?
• If LE haven’t discovered recent photos, what was parents, grandparents explanation?
• If the siblings last saw the boys alive the 19th, why aren’t there any recent photos? Long term abuse and neglect apparent (Wounds, bruises, gaunt, skeletal)?
• When and where exactly was the last confirmed sighting by non family member? And what was the boys’ condition?
• Was there any history of CPS reports or concerns with the family prior to the missing persons report being filed?
• Have LE been able to confirm sightings and footage of the family Christmas shopping at store/shopping center/ parking lot ? If so, how many kids spotted?
• Were there any cadaver or sar dog hits in the vehicle?
• Is there any evidence of people removing items that could have contained O and O from the home (garbage bags, bin)? Especially between the 19th and 21st?
  
• Did the siblings recount any history of how O and O might be punished or in what condition they may be left home alone?

 

[Paige Franklin]

It would make sense that the kids last saw O&O on the 19th if something happened to them that day. It also could explain the vacation timing. I could see AM and AD wanting to send the kids with relatives to allow them to figure out next steps. I don't think whatever happened was planned. More of an accident type scenario. MOO.

 

[Rachelj1]

So the boys' four siblings say they last saw them on Dec. 19. LE has always been extremely cautious about releasing any statements as to when the boys were last seen by G'ma and the non-relative in Bakersfield. Not sure that LE would share this new information with the public if they felt the kids were lying or were mistaken about the date.

This is not an accusation, just an idea: What if one or both of the boys was injured, not to a life-threatening degree but in a way that could have caused the parents to fear they'd be investigated with the children temporarily taken from them, or even that they'd be wrongly blamed? Scenarios like a dog bite or bruising from a scuffle with siblings (the latter happened more than once when we had four boys 10 and under, complete with bruises and scrapes.) So they sent the two boys off to stay with someone they knew well until the visible evidence of the injury will be gone, only someone else requested to see the boys and they panicked, creating the story of their disappearance and, ironically, a bigger investigation than the one they tried to avoid. It's...not a good scenario but if it was the case, whoever they're staying with could just drop them off safely at an attended police or fire station. That new date at least suggests there's hope.

I’ve thought about this too. Do you think they would go this long without coming forward though ?

 

[Rachelj1]

This is the biggest take away for me:

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Jon Walker, Police Chief for the California City Department, says the boys' adoptive parents claim they left their California City house on Dec. 19 with their six children, to go do Christmas shopping in Bakersfield.

Security camera footage from a neighbor shows an adult holding the door open while four children go into the van. Then later that day two adults, which appear to be Trazell and Jacqueline West, come back to the house without any kids.

Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

[...]

In my opinion this should be enough right here to hold them .
Moo

 

[susiQ]

IF the other children saw the boys on the 19th, is it possible JW got them to the van unnoticed? IF grandma saw them on the 19th, then did the AP take the boys “Christmas shopping?” What store did they shop at? Is there video to confirm the boys were with them? Do any store personal remember seeing the AP with the boys? How would one explain only TW & JW returning to the home?

IF grandma didn’t see the boys, were they left at home alone, dead or alive? Wouldn’t the oldest boy remember if O & O were with them in the van ride to grandma’s in Bakersfield?

So, I’m left thinking, if the Chief and his men are going in circles with what they all know, I’m spinning like a top!

All MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Well, the pieces are starting to fit together. Allegedly, only four children seen entering the family van on Dec 19 to go "shopping in Bakersfield", and then allegedly dropped off for a vacation? (If that sequence isn't correct, please correct me). The timing is very interesting. Four kids out of the way, and then the other two disappear.
Certainly sounds premeditated, but of course that is just amateur opinion and speculation.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Rachelj1]

IF the other children saw the boys on the 19th, is it possible JW got them to the van unnoticed? IF grandma saw them on the 19th, then did the AP take the boys “Christmas shopping?” What store did they shop at? Is there video to confirm the boys were with them? Do any store personal remember seeing the AP with the boys? How would one explain only TW & JW returning to the home?

IF grandma didn’t see the boys, were they left at home alone, dead or alive? Wouldn’t the oldest boy remember if O & O were with them in the van ride to grandma’s in Bakersfield?

So, I’m left thinking, if the Chief and his men are going in circles with what they all know, I’m spinning like a top!

All MOO.

Honestly I think they have probably looked over this video a lot and they are certain only 4 kids got in the van. I don’t think O and O were there. I think those other 4 kids saw them somewhere else . Interesting the grandma saw them on the 19th? So the 4 kids and grandma see them ? Well we’re they at grandmas this whole time prior ? I don’t think those boys were ever at the home in California City. Ever .

Editing because they never said exactly when grandma last saw them!
moo

 

[susiQ]

Honestly I think they have probably looked over this video a lot and they are certain only 4 kids got in the van. I don’t think O and O were there. I think those other 4 kids saw them somewhere else . Interesting the grandma saw them on the 19th? So the 4 kids and grandma see them ? Well we’re they at grandmas this whole time prior ? I don’t think those boys were ever at the home in California City. Ever .

moo

I don’t think we know that grandma saw them on the 19th. I think she was the last family member other than the other children to have seen O & O. What day that was we don’t know as the Chief did not want to release that information to prevent speculation, iirc.
MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I don’t think we know that grandma saw them on the 19th. I think she was the last family member other than the other children to have seen them. What day that was we don’t know as the Chief did not want to release that information to prevent speculation, iirc.
MOO

Thank you! I edited right before you posted this . I mean it’s strange , I’m really thinking those other 4 children saw them in Bakersfield.
Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

In my opinion this should be enough right here to hold them .
Moo

It could be, but they may not be able to hold them very long without more evidence. They would probably get an attorney and that would interfere with their ability to question them.

Investigators only get one chance and they want to be sure they have a strong case and solid evidence that would lead to a conviction.

Imo

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Honestly I think they have probably looked over this video a lot and they are certain only 4 kids got in the van. I don’t think O and O were there. I think those other 4 kids saw them somewhere else . Interesting the grandma saw them on the 19th? So the 4 kids and grandma see them ? Well we’re they at grandmas this whole time prior ? I don’t think those boys were ever at the home in California City. Ever .

Editing because they never said exactly when grandma last saw them!
moo

BBM
I think you might be on the right track with this idea. Perhaps the other kids were missing the boys and were allowed to see them so they wouldn't bring it up at grandma's. Wherever that somewhere is.
I have had to hold my tongue on this thread but I am unfortunately intimately aware of re-homing, and the lengths people will go to, including conspiring with the new "family", to keep family members from knowing what they have done. Moo.

 

[Seattle1]

OK
So security cam shows only 4 children getting into the van on Dec 19. Only TW and JW come back home. The other 4 children say that they saw the boys on Dec 19. Wonder where they saw the boys? They weren’t supposed to be on “vacation” at Grandma’s with the other 4, so where were they?

Did the AP leave the boys home alone on the 19th?

The parent's response during the interview as to why the missing boys did not go to Grandma's house with their siblings was that they were too young at ages 3 & 4.

Yes, where were these boys when the car was packed and loaded on Dec 19 with only 4 of 6 children? Do we know what time of day the family left the house on 12/19 and what time the parents returned home alone? Was this a preplanned family outing or a last minute exercise?

I don't believe Orson & Orrin were left at home alone. These parents are not newbies with the foster system and I don't think they'd take that kind of risk. I believe the boys were with somebody else when the family left the house and they never returned home again. It seems to me that mom and dad spent two days trying to come up with a plan for how to report the boys missing and the best they came up with after two days is that they wandered off through the backyard gate!

I wish we knew what time of day the siblings last saw their little brothers.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

OK
So security cam shows only 4 children getting into the van on Dec 19. Only TW and JW come back home. The other 4 children say that they saw the boys on Dec 19. Wonder where they saw the boys? They weren’t supposed to be on “vacation” at Grandma’s with the other 4, so where were they?

Did the AP leave the boys home alone on the 19th?

Ok. So the other four children saw Orrin,and Orson on the 19th. Alive,and breathing? I hate to even have to ask that. MOO

 

[MoeInVA]

BBM
I think you might be on the right track with this idea. Perhaps the other kids were missing the boys and were allowed to see them so they wouldn't bring it up at grandma's. Wherever that somewhere is.
I have had to hold my tongue on this thread but I am unfortunately intimately aware of re-homing, and the lengths people will go to, including conspiring with the new "family", to keep family members from knowing what they have done. Moo.

If the boys were rehomed, can you offer some theories why no one has just come clean and admitted it? Or staged a miraculous reappearance to end the controversy?

For folks who think boys were seen elsewhere the 19th, theories on where that was?

 

[susiQ]

The parent's response during the interview as to why the missing boys did not go to Grandma's house with their siblings was that they were too young at ages 3 & 4.

Yes, where were these boys when the car was packed and loaded on Dec 19 with only 4 of 6 children? Do we know what time of day the family left the house on 12/19 and what time the parents returned home alone? Was this a preplanned family outing or a last minute exercise?

I don't believe Orson & Orrin were left at home alone. These parents are not newbies with the foster system and I don't think they'd take that kind of risk. I believe the boys were with somebody else when the family left the house and they never returned home again. It seems to me that mom and dad spent two days trying to come up with a plan for how to report the boys missing and the best they came up with after two days is that they wandered off through the backyard gate!

I wish we knew what time of day the siblings last saw their little brothers.

Wonder if grandma had O & O and they did a switcheroo on the 19th? The other children remain in Bakersfield and O & O never return to CC? In that case both the other children and grandma saw them on the 19th.......in passing.
MOO.