Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Bbybluz]

Saw a mention of this case in international news today. Long shot I suppose but the area seems roughly the same?
Multi-Day Joint Agency Operation 'Lost Angels' Leads to the Recovery of 33 Missing Children During Trafficking Awareness Month — FBI

After reading this my ole hope meter went pretty high reading the LE departments involved with that case & with this case!! Yeaaaa! I only seen 2 per my memory mentioned in this case but then I looked at a county map of CA & was surprised to see Bakersfield as the county seat. & the surrounding counties & Depts that may have crossed over with our Precious BROTHERS here.

Orrin & Olson don’t give up on us because we aren’t giving up on you!

California County Map

 

[Bbybluz]

I gotta say, I LOVE THIS CHIEF!!!! He is giving yet not giving info. IMO

Since day 1 I have kept this same sentiment!!! Sometimes you get that feeling about a person (good or bad) & you need to trust that feeling. In this case it’s good!

 

[Algo214]

Has there been any WS approved media report on the grandparents help and/or lack therof in searching the boys?

 

[Bbybluz]

Has there been any WS approved media report on the grandparents help and/or lack therof in searching the boys?

If my memory serves me right I have only seen grandparents mentioned in the Statement from the West/Watson (AV’s brother). That article can be found in @AmandaReckonwith ’s archives.

 

[tatertot]

Saw a mention of this case in international news today. Long shot I suppose but the area seems roughly the same?
Multi-Day Joint Agency Operation 'Lost Angels' Leads to the Recovery of 33 Missing Children During Trafficking Awareness Month — FBI

On this Facebook post, Bayan Wang said that Chief Walker confirmed the recent trafficking operations in Bakersfield and LA have no link to the boys' case:

https://www.facebook.com/bayanwang23abc/photos/a.1600107210114534/2750275178431059/

And another thanks goes out to Jo in Calif for her insight. If LE released G'ma's full statements about when she last saw the boys, how long before the rock-throwing hecklers would show up at her house? If it is the case (not making any accusations here, just stating a possibility) that the boys went missing well before Dec. 21, she might have been the very one that brought this case to light by questioning their absence and requesting a visit from the boys or at least a call, say by Christmas. In that situation, I think any of us would do the same: press to see the kids or take further action.

Thirdly, and unrelated to the last two points, I don't know that it's necessarily suspect that the boys' heights and weights are identical. It was mentioned that there are two birth fathers, which would make them half brothers, and one or both of the boys might take after his dad when it comes to build, meaning there could be a slightly shorter/lighter 4yo or a slightly taller/heavier 3yo. Nor do I find it odd that they were wearing identical sweats. Large families do that! At the end of the season Walmart might have all their sweats in the same basic colors but different sizes marked down to a buck or two and we've bought them for every son whose size was on the rack. Or they'd get identical outfits as gifts from G'ma.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I gotta say, I LOVE THIS CHIEF!!!! He is giving yet not giving info. IMO

I do too! He's "street smart", but seems to be able to work well with all the agencies involved. Along with all these agencies, they will absolutely bring this case to closure. Now what that closure looks like is still undetermined. The fact LE has been digging of course leads us to conclude they think the children have passed. But how, how do two children pass? How would the Perp(s) explain that one? I keep vacillating between that they are now in spirit to the possibility that they have been sold. My blood turns cold even thinking about the possibilities there.

I think our best hope is that JW will talk, and that's where my prayers are directed today.
I look at the news interview of her and TW, and I see anguish on what of her face that we can see. Her eyes do speak to anguish.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[charminglane]

Is it anguish at the situation or anguish for the missing boys?
That is the question.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Is it anguish at the situation or anguish for the missing boys?
That is the question.

True that.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I'm sorry, I thought you asked this: typically foster children are not allowed to go on sleepovers. I can't find anything on California specifically but I will keep searching or maybe someone with more expertise can chime in,
I supplied you with, I thought, was an answer to your question.

No, the document does not address whether sleepovers are allowed specifically.

The only answer I gleaned is "it is up to the foster parents or agency" as to what activities they can allow the foster children to participate in.

 

[Kiranerys]

Has there been any approved sources that tell us if the wests have a dog?.
If not if anyone is discussing unofficial sources anywhere and has room for one more please could someone bring me in

 

[MsBetsy]

Has there been any approved sources that tell us if the wests have a dog?.
If not if anyone is discussing unofficial sources anywhere and has room for one more please could someone bring me in

The only source I know of is the neighbor's surveillance video. He points out a dog running around in the bark yard.

 

[Kiranerys]

The only source I know of is the neighbor's surveillance video. He points out a dog running around in the bark yard.

Thankyou. I was hoping someone might have referenced the dogs name

 

[elliefant]

No, the document does not address whether sleepovers are allowed specifically.

The only answer I gleaned is "it is up to the foster parents or agency" as to what activities they can allow the foster children to participate in.

The document does state overnight stays. I think @Jo in Calif gave you the answer. As per the doc she linked, foster parents are not blanket-restricted from allowing overnight stays, amongst other things given as examples, and they should exercise prudence when deciding which to allow.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The only source I know of is the neighbor's surveillance video. He points out a dog running around in the bark yard.

Can we tell if it looks like a family friendly pooch or some sort of a guard dog? (Could be both of course)

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Snoop Sister]

On this Facebook post, Bayan Wang said that Chief Walker confirmed the recent trafficking operations in Bakersfield and LA have no link to the boys' case:

https://www.facebook.com/bayanwang23abc/photos/a.1600107210114534/2750275178431059/

And another thanks goes out to Jo in Calif for her insight. If LE released G'ma's full statements about when she last saw the boys, how long before the rock-throwing hecklers would show up at her house? If it is the case (not making any accusations here, just stating a possibility) that the boys went missing well before Dec. 21, she might have been the very one that brought this case to light by questioning their absence and requesting a visit from the boys or at least a call, say by Christmas. In that situation, I think any of us would do the same: press to see the kids or take further action.

Thirdly, and unrelated to the last two points, I don't know that it's necessarily suspect that the boys' heights and weights are identical. It was mentioned that there are two birth fathers, which would make them half brothers, and one or both of the boys might take after his dad when it comes to build, meaning there could be a slightly shorter/lighter 4yo or a slightly taller/heavier 3yo. Nor do I find it odd that they were wearing identical sweats. Large families do that! At the end of the season Walmart might have all their sweats in the same basic colors but different sizes marked down to a buck or two and we've bought them for every son whose size was on the rack. Or they'd get identical outfits as gifts from G'ma.

Awesome post. I agree totally with your comments.

 

[MoeInVA]

If it is the case (not making any accusations here, just stating a possibility) that the boys went missing well before Dec. 21, she might have been the very one that brought this case to light by questioning their absence and requesting a visit from the boys or at least a call, say by Christmas. In that situation, I think any of us would do the same: press to see the kids or take further action.

snipped by me for focus
Good point about protecting Grandma (from rock throwers) as well as the case. I agree that Grandma W demanding a visit with O and O is certainly a possibility for triggering the missing report. She may also have been given different explanations over time. In any case, JMO and speculation: I believe that Grandma W has probably been a very helpful and important witness in the case. I sympathize with the extended family and their focus on trying to help the other 4 children.

Still, if the police need info on sightings of the boys or say certain vehicles from a certain time period or location where they were last seen by folks other than the parents, it would help to give the key time frame and location. Without doing so in a way that would put witnesses at risk. Apparently they do not feel the need to do this (yet). I hope it’s because they have a lot of footage and data (phone, vehicle) and are not even close to exhausting those leads yet. I have a feeling that this “portion of the investigation” is being handled by BPD. JMO.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Orrin and Orson West Case Archive:

https://app.photobucket.com/u/crankycrankerson/a/c754fac6-d2ad-4754-b4e5-89dfa239f267

 

[Frodosdojo]

The document does state overnight stays. I think @Jo in Calif gave you the answer. As per the doc she linked, foster parents are not blanket-restricted from allowing overnight stays, amongst other things given as examples, and they should exercise prudence when deciding which to allow.

The document does not state that at all. This is what it says:

A licensed and certified foster parent or facility staff member, as described in subdivision (b), shall receive training related to the reasonable and prudent parent standard that is consistent with section 671(a)(24) of Title 42 of the United States Code. This training shall include knowledge and skills relating to the reasonable and prudent parent standard for the participation of the child in age or developmentally appropriate activities, including knowledge and skills relating to the developmental stages of the cognitive, emotional, physical, and behavioral capacities of a child, and knowledge and skills relating to applying the standard to decisions such as whether to allow the child to engage in extracurricular, enrichment, cultural, and social activities, including sports, field trips, and overnight activities lasting one or more days, and to decisions involving the signing of permission slips and arranging of transportation for the child to and from extracurricular, enrichment, and social activities.

I don't want to discuss it anymore because obviously there are several people trying to play semantics that does not exist. It says that training will provided as to whether or not to allow activities.

 

[Frodosdojo]

snipped by me for focus
Good point about protecting Grandma (from rock throwers) as well as the case. I agree that Grandma W demanding a visit with O and O is certainly a possibility for triggering the missing report. She may also have been given different explanations over time. In any case, JMO and speculation: I believe that Grandma W has probably been a very helpful and important witness in the case. I sympathize with the extended family and their focus on trying to help the other 4 children.

Still, if the police need info on sightings of the boys or say certain vehicles from a certain time period or location where they were last seen by folks other than the parents, it would help to give the key time frame and location. Without doing so in a way that would put witnesses at risk. Apparently they do not feel the need to do this (yet). I hope it’s because they have a lot of footage and data (phone, vehicle) and are not even close to exhausting those leads yet. I have a feeling that this “portion of the investigation” is being handled by BPD. JMO.

Just curious, why do you think Grandma W has been helpful ? Has anyone spoken to her on record ?

 

[elliefant]

The document is about lifting restrictions and instead allowing foster parents to exercise prudence etc. Some examples it gives are

“activities such as sports and extracurricular events, getting haircuts, staying over with friends”

Then it goes on to explain about training to support people in exercising that prudence etc.

We shall agree to differ

https://cdss.ca.gov/lettersnotices/EntRes/getinfo/acl/2016/16-31.pdf