Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[imstilla.grandma]

We discovered that a phased approach usually yields the best results. This involves starting with analysis of large-scale satellite data to locate potential burial areas – for example where soil has been recently disturbed. You then proceed with initial site investigations, looking at suspect areas to find out the soil type and other environmental data. The last stage involves carrying out focused site searches and digging.

Ground penetrating radar is best to locate bodies that have been wrapped in something (wrapping provides a good reflective surface). In other cases, where the body is still decomposing, fluids such as blood from the cadaver can be detected by machines that measure electrical resistivity – how strongly a material opposes the flow of an electric current. In a recent study, we showed that conductivity in grave soil water rapidly increases up to two years after burial – data which we can use to estimate the time since death.

The science of finding buried bodies

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Researchers have unearthed a new way to find a buried body. The sensitive method, published online June 23 in Forensic Science International, detected trace compounds emanating from decomposing rats months after death.

If the technique also works for human remains, it may help law enforcement personnel find hidden graves of victims months after a murder, researchers say. Because the method relies on a superthin, flexible tube to catch faint chemical signatures in air pockets near the corpse, it may be used to detect bodies buried in hard-to-reach areas, such as under concrete slabs.

Currently, people use corpse-sniffing dogs, ground-penetrating radar, and chemical analyses of air and soil to pinpoint buried bodies. But study coauthor Thomas Bruno of the National Institute of Standards and Technology campus in Boulder, Colorado, says that none of these methods would work in every situation.

The new method promises to be specific, sensitive and, importantly, flexible, Bruno says. The tube could be inserted into a small hole drilled into a concrete slab or rubble to sniff out bodies buried underneath. “For a body buried under a concrete slab, there is nothing else that would work,” Bruno says. “Ground-penetrating radar has problems, and you don’t have access to the soil to do analyses.”

As a corpse decomposes, tissues break down, releasing bits of nitrogen-containing compounds into the surrounding soil and air pockets. These compounds are known to react with a chemical called ninhydrin, causing it to change color. A bluish-purple flush signals a decomposing body. (Conveniently, ninhydrin is also used at crime scenes to detect sloughed-off skin tissue in fingerprints.)
New Technique Finds Buried Bodies Better

 

[Seattle1]

Since they previously excavated the backyard, I think they may be attempting a more precise investigation -- perhaps searching beneath a concrete slab. This technique was used at a construction site in Salida Colorado searching for Suzanne Morphew, and most recently, Bob Perry, known nationally as the 'Bone Finder' was called to CT to search for Jennifer Dulos. Ground-penetrating radar detects disturbed soil and anomalies beneath the ground.

'Bone Finder' helps police in the search for Jennifer Dulos | fox61.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Since they previously excavated the backyard, I think they may be attempting a more precise investigation -- perhaps searching beneath a concrete slab. This technique was used at a construction site in Salida Colorado searching for Suzanne Morphew, and most recently, Bob Perry, known nationally as the 'Bone Finder' was called to CT to search for Jennifer Dulos. Ground-penetrating radar detects disturbed soil and anomalies beneath the ground.

'Bone Finder' helps police in the search for Jennifer Dulos | fox61.com

I wish I knew how many times Chief mentioned the word “dig” and twice that I remember he mentioned “bodies”
They focused on the concrete slab last time. Those boys did not get out of that backyard by themselves. Someone helped them. Perhaps someone helped these boys get into the backyard. I gotta say. This is upsetting. I’m probably making little sense. Yes. I’m upset. I do believe those boys are dead. There is no miracle coming to save and rescue them. I do believe a holy presence was the only one for these boys at their end. jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Since they previously excavated the backyard, I think they may be attempting a more precise investigation -- perhaps searching beneath a concrete slab. This technique was used at a construction site in Salida Colorado searching for Suzanne Morphew, and most recently, Bob Perry, known nationally as the 'Bone Finder' was called to CT to search for Jennifer Dulos. Ground-penetrating radar detects disturbed soil and anomalies beneath the ground.

'Bone Finder' helps police in the search for Jennifer Dulos | fox61.com

I can't read the article because there is a blue bar on the left side, but yes, using GPR makes more sense for searching underground.

LE really seems to think they might find something there. Imo

 

[Seattle1]

A deeper look at the local adoption process after the California City boys' disappearance

Dec 30, 2020

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wish I knew how many times Chief mentioned the word “dig” and twice that I remember he mentioned “bodies”
They focused on the concrete slab last time. Those boys did not get out of that backyard by themselves. Someone helped them. Perhaps someone helped these boys get into the backyard. I gotta say. This is upsetting. I’m probably making little sense. Yes. I’m upset. I do believe those boys are dead. There is no miracle coming to save and rescue them. I do believe a holy presence was the only one for these boys at their end. jmo

Every possibility I can think of is horrific. Perhaps I'm jaded by years of navigating these threads, but I agree with you. Evil has no limits apparently.
Did these two boys have something special or unique about them that was marketable? A special blood type, or? The bio mom and her families medical history should be explored. These two kids had something marketable, *if* the theory of selling them ends up being correct. There are only two things I can think of, and both upset me so much I can't type them.

Again, *if* JW knows something, she has a very brief window of opportunity to work with LE and the DA. *If* she needs to, let's hope she is smart enough to do so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I can't read the article because there is a blue bar on the left side, but yes, using GPR makes more sense for searching underground.

LE really seems to think they might find something there. Imo

A clip from the article: Jennifer’s body wasn’t found.


“They feel like the body was buried out in the backyard and this is what I do, so, I said sure no problem,” Perry said, “I check for anomalies in the ground or ground disturbance and there were four areas that I checked that had ground disturbance in it. I was looking for some sort of indication like a skull or some bones or something like that, that would give off something on the scan and I saw nothing there at all.”

Unsuccessful outside the house, Perry along with State Police made their way to the basement.

“We then went into the house, there was an anomaly about 18 inches in the ground and the anomaly was elongated, it looked like it could have been a grave but I think it was a pipe,” Perry said.

 

[anniejanet]

Imaging devises work great so I've learned from watching Expedition Unknown.

Where are the boys?

 

[anniejanet]

Is speculation allowed on here? Like what kind of accident would befall two young toddlers at the same time?

Also I find it interesting the older kids were gone when they went missing. Were they baby sitters to the toddlers?

 

[anniejanet]

Also I'm wonder how much the covid masks made a difference in the interview. Did not seeing the lower part of their faces make them seem more sinister?

 

[Seattle1]

Is speculation allowed on here? Like what kind of accident would befall two young toddlers at the same time?

Also I find it interesting the older kids were gone when they went missing. Were they baby sitters to the toddlers?

If the time period other than December, I'd suspect a hot-car accident but I don't see this applicable. Two missing toddlers is not the norm!

 

[anniejanet]

If the time period other than December, I'd suspect a hot-car accident but I don't see this applicable. Two missing toddlers is not the norm!

I sure hope it's okay to speculate on here. But I'm thinking bathtub.

 

[MsBetsy]

A clip from the article: Jennifer’s body wasn’t found.


“They feel like the body was buried out in the backyard and this is what I do, so, I said sure no problem,” Perry said, “I check for anomalies in the ground or ground disturbance and there were four areas that I checked that had ground disturbance in it. I was looking for some sort of indication like a skull or some bones or something like that, that would give off something on the scan and I saw nothing there at all.”

Unsuccessful outside the house, Perry along with State Police made their way to the basement.

“We then went into the house, there was an anomaly about 18 inches in the ground and the anomaly was elongated, it looked like it could have been a grave but I think it was a pipe,” Perry said.

Thanks! It's so discouraging that they still have not found JD. I hope this is not the case for Orson and Orrin. Police have been focusing on the home since the beginning. I wonder if at one point the boys were seen on video going into the house but never coming out?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Also I'm wonder how much the covid masks made a difference in the interview. Did not seeing the lower part of their faces make them seem more sinister?

I’ve thought about that so many times. The black mask makes him look a little intimidating. The mask probably affected our perception. I wonder. Did it also affect their mindset and words? Did they feel hidden and protected? Did it make them feel like the bad guys? Idk, what do y’all think?

 

[Little Nicki]

Is speculation allowed on here? Like what kind of accident would befall two young toddlers at the same time?

Also I find it interesting the older kids were gone when they went missing. Were they baby sitters to the toddlers?

Drowning?

 

[anniejanet]

I’ve thought about that so many times. The black mask makes him look a little intimidating. The mask probably affected our perception. I wonder. Did it also affect their mindset and words? Did they feel hidden and protected? Did it make them feel like the bad guys? Idk, what do y’all think?

I was watching the interview and the mom's mask really stood out because it was so thick. The dad's was thinner but covered more of his face. I just found it really off putting not being able to see their whole faces.

Sure they might have felt covered/hidden too.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Hoping there is more forensic evidence than we know, as in GS's case.
Though the focus on the California City backyard baffles me at this point.

 

[MsMarple]

We discovered that a phased approach usually yields the best results. This involves starting with analysis of large-scale satellite data to locate potential burial areas – for example where soil has been recently disturbed. You then proceed with initial site investigations, looking at suspect areas to find out the soil type and other environmental data. The last stage involves carrying out focused site searches and digging.

Ground penetrating radar is best to locate bodies that have been wrapped in something (wrapping provides a good reflective surface). In other cases, where the body is still decomposing, fluids such as blood from the cadaver can be detected by machines that measure electrical resistivity – how strongly a material opposes the flow of an electric current. In a recent study, we showed that conductivity in grave soil water rapidly increases up to two years after burial – data which we can use to estimate the time since death.

The science of finding buried bodies

I'm a little surprised LE didn't start with GPR before excavating the backyard. I remember LE located Abraham Shakespeare's body (Florida) under a concrete slab about 6 months after his murder. His murderer Dee Dee Moore was briefly a member here where she insisted she was not involved.

I wonder if different soil types affect the results?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was watching the interview and the mom's mask really stood out because it was so thick. The dad's was thinner but covered more of his face. I just found it really off putting not being able to see their whole faces.

Sure they might have felt covered/hidden too.

And though I hardly feel like defending them in any way....the reality is when we see someone wearing a mask the way he was, you can't help but have a moment's thought of "bank robber, mugger, " because we associate that look to an assault of some sort typically. So, that look didn't help endear himself to us. If he were smart, he would have worn a pooh-bear mask or something like that. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation