Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Knox]

It's day 43 since the boys went missing

 

[Ontario Mom]

IMO it virtually HAS to be foul play.

No one is claiming accidental deaths.

If these were TEENAGE boys, you could argue that it's POSSIBLE they left of their own accord, by imaginary tunnel....

But a 3 and 4 year old? They're not good at disappearing themselves. And really bad at walking away from one life to start another on their own.

So someone helped make them unfindable.

And THAT has all the markings of a crime.

Foul play.

JMO

I think it's possible it was accidental, followed by a cover up.
Likely possibilities would be bath tub drowning or ingesting a substance (drugs, poison, medication, etc.)
If they were unsupervised for any length of time, either could have happened (and have, in far too many cases over the years).
Only because this family doesn't appear to have any history of abuse or domestic violence or anything like that (that we're aware of, anyway), I tend to lean toward accident followed by concealment of the boys, somewhere, then cover story.

jmo

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

I check this thread first thing every morning hoping that the boys will have been found or arrests have been made. There's only one case that I've followed/researched this closely and it was years ago. Praying for these boys.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

I keep trying to think of possibilities of what could have happened. I'm not sure if it's been discussed and I think it's unlikely but it's something I just thought of. We allegedly see four children leaving on the 19th with the parents. Maybe the parents left O&O home alone when they went to Bakersfield. The kids could've done something during that time to cause their accidental death. Got into medication or poisonous household items. Could've got into the family's guns if they had any. The parents come home to find them dead and know how neglectful they were. They then have two days to clean up and fabricate a story.

Not thinking this is was what happened, more just thinking out loud.

MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I keep trying to think of possibilities of what could have happened. I'm not sure if it's been discussed and I think it's unlikely but it's something I just thought of. We allegedly see four children leaving on the 19th with the parents. Maybe the parents left O&O home alone when they went to Bakersfield. The kids could've done something during that time to cause their accidental death. Got into medication or poisonous household items. Could've got into the family's guns if they had any. The parents come home to find them dead and know how neglectful they were. They then have two days to clean up and fabricate a story.

Not thinking this is was what happened, more just thinking out loud.

MOO

The only thing with that is the forensics . They would of found blood even it was cleaned up repeatedly with bleach !! If they got into poison , I can’t see them letting this go on this long . They would if fessed up in my opinion. I think it’s something much worse .

moo

 

[Rachelj1]

I think it's possible it was accidental, followed by a cover up.
Likely possibilities would be bath tub drowning or ingesting a substance (drugs, poison, medication, etc.)
If they were unsupervised for any length of time, either could have happened (and have, in far too many cases over the years).
Only because this family doesn't appear to have any history of abuse or domestic violence or anything like that (that we're aware of, anyway), I tend to lean toward accident followed by concealment of the boys, somewhere, then cover story.

jmo

I do not think it’s accidental . The only reason is Bc accidental would of meant they were devastated ... I can’t see them holding up this long without breaking . Even if they were scared, they could of taken a plea . I think this is intentional.
Moo

 

[Number8]

Bwahahaha! I'm sorry but that was funny. (gravity) LOL

Yes, I think the residents have been criticized for the condition of their yard and this is the reaction they received when they tried to clean it up.

She said there were no police officers out there! OHHHHHHHHH MY! Wait...why would police officers be there? Is it their job to assist residents in hauling off trash?

She said the residents of the home were taking video and threatening them. Really? YOU are surveilling THEIR home and YOU'RE the one who feels threatened?

The residents called BPD. I see. And that suggests to you that they were doing something nefarious?

She said the BPD stated they are not on the case. Well, that's not what the Chief of Cal City PD said. BPD provided a CSI unit when the home was searched. It has been reported that evidence from that search would be examined by BPD. And BPD Chief Terry was interviewed by KGET and said they were assisting. I'm going to take the word of two police chiefs. Sorry not sorry.

She says she was told LE hasn't done a search there or at the previous residence (Casa Loma Apts). Perhaps she doesn't know that a search warrant is required and LE can't just go about searching every family member's home willy nilly. And, the Cal City Chief said the previous address was searched, IIRC.

She says the house where all this occurred is the adopted dad's house and then struggles to even remember/pronunciate his name. She then adds mom and stepdad. Does Trezell have a stepdad? (n/m - don't answer that - sleuthing family.)

She said they put some drywall into the back of a red pickup truck which drove away and came back about 30 minutes later. Oh, and they've been helping them for the last two days to get rid of stuff. Maybe the homeowner finally has some help on hand to clean up the yard. Isn't that a good thing? If I lived next door I would be greatly appreciative.

She went to Cal City to search. "We had people lookin' at us strange." "Cars lookin' at us." No one asked if they wanted help and she wants to know why this is such a secret. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

She hasn't seen any police at the Casa Loma location therefore they were never there. Whatever. Maybe she should take a break from stalking and watch the news once in awhile.

They videotaped the police officers who responded to the call!

She wants to know why "they" (I never did figure out who "they is") can't get answers. Well I can understand that; we all want answers. However, it is not her job to investigate. Someone needs to explain to her, "you not da popo, k?"

I apologize for my sarcasm. I can't stand this kind of stuff. Let the authorities handle it for crying out loud! MOO

She may not be that educated or well-versed on the facts, but she’s still biological family and this is a family-and-victim-friendly forum. No doubt they are freaking out and feel like they have no control over the situation and that no one is looking out for them/they have been let down by the system. <modsnip>

 

[fcavanaugh]

I think it's possible it was accidental, followed by a cover up.
Likely possibilities would be bath tub drowning or ingesting a substance (drugs, poison, medication, etc.)
If they were unsupervised for any length of time, either could have happened (and have, in far too many cases over the years).
Only because this family doesn't appear to have any history of abuse or domestic violence or anything like that (that we're aware of, anyway), I tend to lean toward accident followed by concealment of the boys, somewhere, then cover story.

jmo

I guess it’s possible it’s accidental followed by a cover-up. I ask myself, do normal, loving parents usually go to such extremes to cover up accidental deaths? At any rate, *if* TW/JW are responsible for covering up something accidental that happened, you’d think one of them would’ve cracked by now under all the LE, media, and community outrage pressure, especially if there’s no prior history of neglect, DV, abuse. If they fessed up and admitted it was an accident, it would still be awful that they didn’t report it and decided to cover it up to such a degree, but they might be charged with a lesser crime if they were to own up to it having been an accident, as there’s a chance the DA/Judge might be a little more sympathetic. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they might not be aware of possibly being charged with a lesser crime if they admit it was accidental, still though, if it were truly accidental and they/one of them have even the slightest of emotional attachment to these precious boys, I think one of them would’ve caved/broken down under all the pressure by now, imo.

IMHO

 

[Seattle1]

I do feel like LE is grasping a little bit at this point. Nothing was found in all the outdoor searches, they collected evidence inside and out...and as far as the public knows nothing substantial was found.
Here is the thing that I'm confused about...the chief suspects foul play, but why? What has led him to believe that pretty much from the first night? He said the boys didn't wonder off alone , and they have not asked the public to be on the lookout for suspicious vehicles??

He asked TW and JW to take a poly....him not saying what that outcome was definitely tells me they didn't pass if they took at all. They still have other tech devices but their phones...why? is something on the ipads? NO one has claimed the reward ....that means not many people know.

MOO

Police Chief suspects foul play because they've not been able to determine how the children got out of the yard or where they've gone. The children did not disappear voluntarily or with permission. In police terms, it's that simple. He also explained foul play does not mean he believes the boys are dead.

Rewards are very seldom paid out but they are very good for keeping the story in the media. The information that leads to finding the West boys MUST also lead to an arrest and conviction in order to collect the reward committed by the city. I don't doubt the other reward funds contain similar language.

Cal City extends reward for info on missing boys

Cal City police chief on missing boys: 'I do suspect foul play'

 

[PommyMommy]

She may not be that educated or well-versed on the facts, but she’s still biological family and this is a family-and-victim-friendly forum. No doubt they are freaking out and feel like they have no control over the situation and that no one is looking out for them/they have been let down by the system.<modsnip>

BBM She is? How is she related? She says they got a call and "us citizens came out to check it and see what was going on." I don't remember her providing her name or saying that she was related. MOO

ETA: At 2:45 she says, "Us residents have been on this since day 1." Doesn't sound like she's family to me.

 

[PommyMommy]

@Number8, this article does say that members of the biological family were there during the yard clean up/confrontation. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the woman in the video was family though.

FEB 1, 2021
Police use imaging devices on landscape in search of missing Cal City boys (turnto23.com)
The California City Police Department returned to the adoptive parents' home of missing Orrin and Orson West to use imaging devices to take photos of several feet of ground on the property.

[...]

On Monday, a group of family members from the boys' biological family stating they received reports of activity at the adoptive father Trezell West's family home in Bakersfield. The biological family said a confrontation occurred and the Bakersfield Police Department was called, who stated they were not involved in the case as it is under the Cal City Police Department's jurisdiction.

[...]

 

[Number8]

BBM She is? How is she related? She says they got a call and "us citizens came out to check it and see what was going on." I don't remember her providing her name or saying that she was related. MOO

ETA: At 2:45 she says, "Us residents have been on this since day 1." Doesn't sound like she's family to me.

I was going off the title of the video (“Cal City missing boys' biological family responds to disappearance of her sons”). But if I’m wrong... I rescind my comment! In which case that title is super misleading.

 

[stattlich1]

If I assume the SAR canines were given items with these boys scent, and NOT some other persons scent, then it's my opinion these two boys were NOT in that back yard, or outside anywhere around that house, when it was purported that they were.

That is lie number one.

So, these boys may have been in that home just prior to the report of them being missing. If they were, then they were removed from that home via being placed in an airtight container and then in a vehicle belonging to the family, OR they were placed in a strange vehicle yet unknown to LE, all being accomplished inside the garage of that home.

Otherwise, they were NOT at that home in the time period indicated. They may have been in that home at some time since the parents purchased it, OR, and this is my suspicion, they may have NEVER been in that home.

Why vehemently search the yard, dig the yard, sonar/radar the yard, when the SAR canines found no scent of the two boys being in they yard?

As to an accidental death, for me, I imagine that to be possible, however, I think the odds are low in that the accident would have to have killed both boys.

 

[PommyMommy]

I was going off the title of the video (“Cal City missing boys' biological family responds to disappearance of her sons”). But if I’m wrong... I rescind my comment! In which case that title is super misleading.

Yes, it is! When I opened it I expected to see bio mom on camera since the title includes "her sons." Crazy. MOO

 

[Number8]

Yes, it is! When I opened it I expected to see bio mom on camera since the title includes "her sons." Crazy. MOO

Oh I see - crazy indeed. Thanks!

 

[Limecat]

I think it's possible it was accidental, followed by a cover up.
Likely possibilities would be bath tub drowning or ingesting a substance (drugs, poison, medication, etc.)
If they were unsupervised for any length of time, either could have happened (and have, in far too many cases over the years).
Only because this family doesn't appear to have any history of abuse or domestic violence or anything like that (that we're aware of, anyway), I tend to lean toward accident followed by concealment of the boys, somewhere, then cover story.

jmo

This is what I think. Both boys ingested something. I lean towards something illegal vs household chemicals simply because why not call 911 if it was a household item they ingested? Oh wait, I can think of reasons; afraid other foster kids would be taken away? ($). Or .....Casey Anthony.

 

[Rachelj1]

If I assume the SAR canines were given items with these boys scent, and NOT some other persons scent, then it's my opinion these two boys were NOT in that back yard, or outside anywhere around that house, when it was purported that they were.

That is lie number one.

So, these boys may have been in that home shortly prior to the report of them being missing. If they were, then they were removed from that home via being placed in an airtight comntainer and then in a vehicle belonging to the family, OR they were placed in a strange vehicle yet unknown to LE, all being accomplished inside the garage of that home.

Otherwise, they were NOT at that home in the time period indicated. They may have been in that home at some time since the parents purchased it, OR, and this is my suspicion, they may have NEVER been in that home.

Why vehemently search the yard, dig the yard, sonar/radar the yard, when the SAR canines found no scent of the two boys being in they yard?

As to an accidental death, for me, I imagine that to be possible, however, I think the odds are low in that the accident would have to have killed both boys.

See Lie # 1 is right. Which leads to #2, #3!!! I agree I do not think those boys were ever in the home, and for the life of me I cant figure out why they are so consumed with the yard.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

She may not be that educated or well-versed on the facts, but she’s still biological family and this is a family-and-victim-friendly forum. No doubt they are freaking out and feel like they have no control over the situation and that no one is looking out for them/they have been let down by the system. <modsnip>

I believe any individual in grief over the loss of the children should be shown compassion but there are better ways to cope with the state of stress/pain than inflicting harm on others.

The missing boys are only 3 and 4 years of age, and both were removed within months of their births from their biological family, and legally adopted, I don't think biology should be a pass for violating the law including harassing or threatening the adoptive family or their extended families. I think there's a good chance those claiming to be biological family have never met the boys. In the case of the female in the video, she was not identified as being "family." I think she called herself a "citizen."

If my brother's adoptive children were missing, whether or not he was a suspect in their disappearance, I can't imagine strangers camped outside my door, following me, filming me, holding news conferences, making demands -- with impunity! I think the private party and the police have shown great restraint here.

MOO

 

[Number8]

If I assume the SAR canines were given items with these boys scent, and NOT some other persons scent, then it's my opinion these two boys were NOT in that back yard, or outside anywhere around that house, when it was purported that they were.

That is lie number one.

So, these boys may have been in that home shortly prior to the report of them being missing. If they were, then they were removed from that home via being placed in an airtight comntainer and then in a vehicle belonging to the family, OR they were placed in a strange vehicle yet unknown to LE, all being accomplished inside the garage of that home.

Otherwise, they were NOT at that home in the time period indicated. They may have been in that home at some time since the parents purchased it, OR, and this is my suspicion, they may have NEVER been in that home.

Why vehemently search the yard, dig the yard, sonar/radar the yard, when the SAR canines found no scent of the two boys being in they yard?

As to an accidental death, for me, I imagine that to be possible, however, I think the odds are low in that the accident would have to have killed both boys.

BBM.

It’s very common in abusive households for the abuser to pick a “favorite”. They’ll take their anger out on a specific child - maybe because they sense resistance, or really for no reason at all. I’m no psychologist, but I’m familiar with households like this and I think it’s because that child often reminds the abuser of themselves and the abuse they received. It’s an inter generational cycle.

This is all complete speculation, but I have wondered if O&O, or one of them, were the targets of abuse (I come back to TW’s comment in their interview about them being “rambunctious” which to me implies “hard to control”). If they stuck together and/or were punished together, I can see how an accident could happen which would have killed both. It’s gut wrenching to think about. JMO.

 

[Rachelj1]

BBM.

It’s very common in abusive households for the abuser to pick a “favorite”. They’ll take their anger out on a specific child - maybe because they sense resistance, or really for no reason at all. I’m no psychologist, but I’m familiar with households like this and I think it’s because that child often reminds the abuser of themselves and the abuse they received. It’s an inter generational cycle.

This is all complete speculation, but I have wondered if O&O, or one of them, were the targets of abuse (I come back to TW’s comment in their interview about them being “rambunctious” which to me implies “hard to control”). If they stuck together and/or were punished together, I can see how an accident could happen which would have killed both. It’s gut wrenching to think about. JMO.

Exactly or one witnessed it.
MOO