Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Rachelj1]

Personally if this was a sold/ rehoming situation ... someone would of talked . With all the media coverage no way they could of kept these boys under radar . The people that had them , if the boys were ok, could of got themselves out of trouble I would think also by giving the boys to the authorities .

I think with the way TW and JW acted and are continuing to act ... those poor boys are deceased and they need to find them so arrests can be made .

moo

 

[Rachelj1]

I've never been a huge picture taker myself. A few trips to Woolworth's for a photoshoot but that's about it. School pictures once a year. Cell phones weren't around in the 80s when my boys were little though. Still of all the things to find strange to me this isn't one of them.

And maybe it suggest a lack (or lack of contact) with out of state family. Who else would photos be taken for?

I mean it’s just memories for me . Or something funny , or sweet I’m just constantly taking pictures! If I didn’t have at least a month old picture in my phone , that would be extremely odd!!!
With pictures come proof , and the lack of pictures from them speaks volumes.
IMO

 

[MoeInVA]

Oh I agree totally!!! If the boys are not at that home / outside area ... I truly believe someone is going to have to get a confession .
Moo

Well a confession would certainly help.

• Or by chance bodies turn up... (Gannon, Maaliyah Bass) though in Cal city / Bakersfield area it may be harder... dumpster or burial seems more likely than water.
• Or technology catches where they took them (seems unlikely the vehicle will be much help because it looks old?, but cell phones, surveillance cameras might).
• Using tech will be easier if LE can narrow down time frame (and if it was recent). If they disappeared long ago, that may be tougher.

 

[Rachelj1]

Well a confession would certainly help.

• Or by chance bodies turn up... (Gannon, Maaliyah Bass) though in Cal city / Bakersfield area it may be harder... dumpster or burial seems more likely than water.
• Or technology catches where they took them (seems unlikely the vehicle will be much help because it looks old?, but cell phones, surveillance cameras might).
• Using tech will be easier if LE can narrow down time frame (and if it was recent). If they disappeared long ago, that may be tougher.

They just need to follow their digital footsteps even now !!! Most likely they will go back to where they are. If they have anything , anything at all back that could link them and the boys deceased ... that’s all they need. They could get a confession I truly believe if they come unexpected and separate . I’m completely open to other possible suspects as well but I do think the boys most likely had something happen by someone that the little boys trusted at one time .
Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

I've never been a huge picture taker myself. A few trips to Woolworth's for a photoshoot but that's about it. School pictures once a year. Cell phones weren't around in the 80s when my boys were little though. Still of all the things to find strange to me this isn't one of them.

And maybe it suggest a lack (or lack of contact) with out of state family. Who else would photos be taken for?

I don't think a lack of pictures is necessary strange. What does seem unusual is that the mom said she had more recent pictures of the boys yet they never released them to the media. I guess it's possible that they didn't choose the recent pictures (to give LE) because they were blurry or they weren't the right angle. But that doesn't explain why they haven't been searching or making pleas for help to the media. If they believe the boys were kidnapped, I would think they would be doing interviews, showing pictures, and trying to spread the word to as many as possible. Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

I don't think a lack of pictures is necessary strange. What does seem unusual is that the mom said she had more recent pictures of the boys yet they never released them to the media. I guess it's possible that they didn't choose the recent pictures (to give LE) because they were blurry or they weren't the right angle. But that doesn't explain why they haven't been searching or making pleas for help to the media. If they believe the boys were kidnapped, I would think they would be doing interviews, showing pictures, and trying to spread the word to as many as possible. Imo

There is no excuse in my opinion why a parent or parents would not PLEA to anyone that would listen to bring their children back .

 

[anniejanet]

I don't think a lack of pictures is necessary strange. What does seem unusual is that the mom said she had more recent pictures of the boys yet they never released them to the media. I guess it's possible that they didn't choose the recent pictures (to give LE) because they were blurry or they weren't the right angle. But that doesn't explain why they haven't been searching or making pleas for help to the media. If they believe the boys were kidnapped, I would think they would be doing interviews, showing pictures, and trying to spread the word to as many as possible. Imo

Iknowright. Most family of missing people use the media as much as possible to get the word out and keep it in the news. Not these parents.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I don't think a lack of pictures is necessary strange. What does seem unusual is that the mom said she had more recent pictures of the boys yet they never released them to the media. I guess it's possible that they didn't choose the recent pictures (to give LE) because they were blurry or they weren't the right angle. But that doesn't explain why they haven't been searching or making pleas for help to the media. If they believe the boys were kidnapped, I would think they would be doing interviews, showing pictures, and trying to spread the word to as many as possible. Imo

Well the excuse JW gave was that newer pics on their phones, but that LE took them. Not that they are blurry. They have their phones back now. So where are the pics blurry,or not?

 

[Rachelj1]

Well the excuse JW gave was that newer pics on their phones, but that LE took them. Not that they are blurry. They have their phones back now. So where are the pics blurry,or not?

Oh I’m gonna guess there are none !

just my opinion

 

[Rachelj1]

Iknowright. Most family of missing people use the media as much as possible to get the word out and keep it in the news. Not these parents.

Exactly. You have to keep behavior in mind even though people act differently . I think most loving parents could agree you want your babies back and no one could shut you up !!!

 

[Limecat]

I dunno but after watching the interview with the Dept of Human Services spokesperson, it seems to me that that foster parents such as the West couple would be in a much better position to prevent their children from "home accidents," let alone leave 3 and 4-year-olds home alone, unattended. That's just crazy!

The report cites that foster parents receive not less than:

• 12 hours of training
• Background checks
• Home inspections
• Fingerprinting
• Medical inspection by a physician
• Psychological assessment with a social worker

We know the cover-up usually turns out to be worse than the crime. I think the disappearance of two children, not one, is very suspicious to be a home accident. I especially don't believe they were left home alone while the adults and other children traveled to Bakersfield on 12/19.

Of course it’s crazy, but so is the whole scenario given by the AP IMO. I said in my post it’s a big if they were ever in Cal City. Doesn’t mean the same scenario couldn’t have happened in Bakersfield. And accidents happen with one or both parents in the home.

I’m just trying to picture a way BOTH boys were disappeared and if you can rely on the older children’s statements to LE ( another big if ), then the boys were in Cal City on the 19th.
I just can’t wrap my head around both boys being victim to lethal abuse at the same time. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but if one was harmed, I’m not sure the other would have to be disappeared bc he was a “witness”. All the children in the home and would be witnesses. And they’re older.

I just know that things did not “play out” as what we’ve heard so far. MOO

 

[Limecat]

But the problem is where are they? I feel like the cadaver dogs , would of caught their scent when they checked the home that night? When TW left to go "search" the video didn't seem like he carried anything to his van?

MOO

True enough. But they weren’t reported missing for two more days. Can cadaverine (sp?) be cleaned away?

And again, I don’t believe the boys were in Cal City. But I am throwing things out there to see if they make any sense.

 

[Rachelj1]

True enough. But they weren’t reported missing for two more days. Can cadaverine (sp?) be cleaned away?

And again, I don’t believe the boys were in Cal City. But I am throwing things out there to see if they make any sense.

You make total sense and I think if they were deceased and moved from the home the dogs wouldn’t pick up on the scent .
Moo

 

[Lusitana]

I was born in 1994, I have tons of pictures from when I was a baby and a child. So, so, so many. My brother was born in 1987 and he has just as many if not more pictures from when he was a baby and a child.

Right now, we have a camera with us 24/7. And it fits on our pockets, when a parent doesn't have up to date pictures of their children, it always seems weird to me. And when the children in question are 3 and 4 years old, it's even weirder. I have a 3-year-old niece, she's always doing or saying something cute. She doesn't live with me, and I have soooooooo many pictures AND videos of her.

So yeah, I think it's a bit sad and odd that nobody was able to post recent pictures of Orson and Orrin. They are missing and they are little kids, I'm sure they didn't even look like those pictures anymore.

 

[fcavanaugh]

*If* the parents, TW/JW, left 3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone sleeping (drugged) or otherwise, obviously there is something very wrong. It goes beyond just bad judgement, it is egregious behavior, totally unacceptable, and they have no business being parents, never mind adoptive and/or foster parents.

If it turns out to be the case that these tiny tots were left home alone and an accident happened causing them both to perish, IMO, it’s not a one-off case of bad judgement, it points to child neglect/abuse likely an ongoing issue in the home. No loving, well adjusted parent in their right mind leaves their
3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone for several or more hours, for any reason. If it turns out to be the case that this is what happened, it would take a lot to convince me that it was just one time bad judgement on the parents part. And of course brings up the question, if there were previous incidents of neglect/abuse of little O & O, how in the world TW/JW would ever have been allowed to foster/adopt children in the first place? Abuse was hidden?? Not reported?? CPS fail??.... ????.....

Why no pleas for their boys?? Why no searching??? Smdh.

There’s a lot not adding up here.

All of the above IMHOO

 

[brooks]

Personally if this was a sold/ rehoming situation ... someone would of talked . With all the media coverage no way they could of kept these boys under radar . The people that had them , if the boys were ok, could of got themselves out of trouble I would think also by giving the boys to the authorities .

I think with the way TW and JW acted and are continuing to act ... those poor boys are deceased and they need to find them so arrests can be made .

moo

How did TW and JW "act" that makes you think this?

 

[Rachelj1]

*If* the parents TW/JW left 3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone sleeping (drugged), or otherwise, obviously there is something very wrong. It goes beyond just bad judgement, it is egregious behavior, and they have no business being parents, never mind adoptive and/or foster parents.

If it turns out to be the case that these tiny tots were left home alone and an accident happened causing them both to perish, IMO, it’s not a one-off case of bad judgement, it points to child neglect/abuse likely an ongoing issue in the home. No loving, well adjusted parent in their right mind, leaves 3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone for several hours, for any reason. If it turns out to be the case that this is what happened, it would take a lot to convince me that it was just one time bad judgement on the parents part. And of course brings up the question if there were previous incidents of neglect/abuse of little O & O, how TW/JW would ever be allowed to foster/adopt in the first place? Abuse was hidden?? Not reported?? CPS fail??.... ????.....

Why no pleas for their boys, why no searching??? SMDH

IMHO


IMHO

All of that !!!!

 

[Rachelj1]

*If* the parents TW/JW left 3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone sleeping (drugged), or otherwise, obviously there is something very wrong. It goes beyond just bad judgement, it is egregious behavior, and they have no business being parents, never mind adoptive and/or foster parents.

If it turns out to be the case that these tiny tots were left home alone and an accident happened causing them both to perish, IMO, it’s not a one-off case of bad judgement, it points to child neglect/abuse likely an ongoing issue in the home. No loving, well adjusted parent in their right mind, leaves 3 & 4 year old toddlers home alone for several hours, for any reason. If it turns out to be the case that this is what happened, it would take a lot to convince me that it was just one time bad judgement on the parents part. And of course brings up the question if there were previous incidents of neglect/abuse of little O & O, how TW/JW would ever be allowed to foster/adopt in the first place? Abuse was hidden?? Not reported?? CPS fail??.... ????.....

Why no pleas for their boys, why no searching??? SMDH

IMHO


IMHO

All of that !!!!

How did TW and JW "act" that makes you think this?

There is no emotion . It was almost like it was staged .

moo

 

[stattlich1]

MOO

Follow the $$$

Cover up for accidental death?
Truly kidnapped?
Sold on black market?

 

[musemoon]

I just have to ask. Does anyone else fine “12 hours of training” for foster parents rather inadequate?? JMHO.

The training is inadequate especially because the children in foster care have such severe needs, most of them are behavioral and more training in trauma-informed parenting is essential. BUT most foster kids come with therapists, doctors, teachers, CASA workers, regional center workers, and a social worker...so a lot of the training is need-based and experiential which is horrible if you are a new foster parent hoping/expecting to parent neurotypical kiddo cause you are never gonna get one. Also, the children in foster care (not adopted) are visiting with their birth parents each week (usually three times a week for a case that is heading towards reunification, which most foster cases are) so the foster parent will also have the birth family's input as well. All of it can be overwhelming, but until adoption, there are many people involved in foster children's lives and so maybe that's why the training is so light...they get hands-on training with the kids.

I know from experience that it's hard to sit there and train without having real-life scenarios to work through, so as not to bog down the accreditation process they leave the training at a minimum just giving you enough. So if your toddler repeatedly smears feces on the wall, you know who to call, but not why it's happening or how to stop it...but knowing who to call is the first step to the rest of the answers. If your nine-year-old foster child is constantly running away...again, you need to call someone and work through the scenario...etc. I personally think they need at least 12 or more hours in trauma-informed parenting techniques because spending an entire day 24/7 with kids who are raging, destroying your property, and fighting you can be really tiring and parents need more resources and skills to work with these traumatized kids. Not all the kids are this bad all the time, but they can be. They've been removed from their families or have had several placements and have also endured abuse or neglect so they can be hard to handle sometimes, but not always...