Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[MsBetsy]

She may not be that educated or well-versed on the facts, but she’s still biological family and this is a family-and-victim-friendly forum. No doubt they are freaking out and feel like they have no control over the situation and that no one is looking out for them/they have been let down by the system. <modsnip>

I didn't hear her say what her connection was to the bio family. Did she say she was related somehow?

I don't think it's fair for them to harass the grandmother and her husband either. (I thought he was TW's father but the woman said he's the stepfather) How can the community be so sure that they are involved or even that they know what happened? They are also considered victims because they are the boy's grandparents.

 

[Knox]

I didn't hear her say what her connection was to the bio family. Did she say she was related somehow?

I don't think it's fair for them to harass the grandmother and her husband either. (I thought he was TW's father but the woman said he's the stepfather) How can the community be so sure that they are involved or even that they know what happened? They are also considered victims because they are the boys grandparents.

I agree whole heartedly, let LE handle the investigation. This stuff is bordering on harassment and someone may get hurt. Just knock it off for pete's sake!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree whole heartedly, let LE handle the investigation. This stuff is bordering on harassment and someone may get hurt. Just knock it off for pete's sake!

The Chief should put out a strong admonishment with regard to that type of behavior. We don't need LE resources on this case distracted with having to deal with citizens who don't know how to express themselves lawfully. They can take all that energy and continue their searches for the boys. Alternatively, they can lobby for Foster Care / Adoption reform to better protect children moving forward.

As sad as this is, the boys may very well be the impetus for change in a process that appears to have some serious deficiencies. When tots become a "business", it's time for some serious reform.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Seattle1]

The Chief should put out a strong admonishment with regard to that type of behavior. We don't need LE resources on this case distracted with having to deal with citizens who don't know how to express themselves lawfully. They can take all that energy and continue their searches for the boys. Alternatively, they can lobby for Foster Care / Adoption reform to better protect children moving forward.

As sad as this is, the boys may very well be the impetus for change in a process that appears to have some serious deficiencies. When tots become a "business", it's time for some serious reform.

Amateur opinion and speculation

The Chief already threatened to arrest trespassers at the West property and I believe it was at the prayer vigil that he repeated his announcement to let local police do their job without added burden. It doesn't mean that "citizens" will listen -- that's abundantly clear.

Cal City police asks residents to report people trespassing at home of missing boys’ adoptive parents | KGET 17

 

[rosesfromangels]

The Chief already threatened to arrest trespassers at the West property and I believe it was at the prayer vigil that he repeated his announcement to let local police do their job without added burden. It doesn't mean that "citizens" will listen -- that's abundantly clear.

Cal City police asks residents to report people trespassing at home of missing boys’ adoptive parents | KGET 17

Good! Well, they've been warned. Zero tolerance for lawlessness. That's the last thing LE needs to be focused on with this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe any individual in grief over the loss of the children should be shown compassion but there are better ways to cope with the state of stress/pain than inflicting harm on others.

The missing boys are only 3 and 4 years of age, and both were removed within months of their births from their biological family, and legally adopted, I don't think biology should be a pass for violating the law including harassing or threatening the adoptive family or their extended families. I think there's a good chance those claiming to be biological family have never met the boys. In the case of the female in the video, she was not identified as being "family." I think she called herself a "citizen."

If my brother's adoptive children were missing, whether or not he was a suspect in their disappearance, I can't imagine strangers camped outside my door, following me, filming me, holding news conferences, making demands -- with impunity! I think the private party and the police have shown great restraint here.

MOO

Sadly, in many cases, we see individuals who attempt to grandstand and profit in one way or another. It's a disgrace.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ontario Mom]

This is what I think. Both boys ingested something. I lean towards something illegal vs household chemicals simply because why not call 911 if it was a household item they ingested? Oh wait, I can think of reasons; afraid other foster kids would be taken away? ($). Or .....Casey Anthony.

That's exactly where my thoughts went as well.
It'd definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

Sadly, in many cases, we see individuals who attempt to grandstand and profit in one way or another. It's a disgrace.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, it is a disgrace. And I think these same types of individuals often target family victims, spewing bad advice. I think the bio-mom may have found herself in such company. It's all so tragic.

 

[Limecat]

That's exactly where my thoughts went as well.
It'd definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

jmo

Wow this thought just popped into my head. So we think only four of the children went into the van on Dec 19 for Christmas shopping. What if O/O were left home alone at that time (going with the scenario that they WERE in Cal City at that time. BIG IF) because they just didn’t have the energy to deal with 6 kids and esp the youngest two.

what if O/O were either given something so they’d just sleep while everyone was gone and it went badly? Or while left alone got into something?

Pure speculation MOO

 

[anniejanet]

Wow this thought just popped into my head. So we think only four of the children went into the van on Dec 19 for Christmas shopping. What if O/O were left home alone at that time (going with the scenario that they WERE in Cal City at that time. BIG IF) because they just didn’t have the energy to deal with 6 kids and esp the youngest two.

what if O/O were either given something so they’d just sleep while everyone was gone and it went badly? Or while left alone got into something?

Pure speculation MOO

Wow! That makes so much sense

 

[Limecat]

Wow! That makes so much sense

I’m on a roll today lol

 

[Rachelj1]

I’m on a roll today lol

But the problem is where are they? I feel like the cadaver dogs , would of caught their scent when they checked the home that night? When TW left to go "search" the video didn't seem like he carried anything to his van?

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Wow this thought just popped into my head. So we think only four of the children went into the van on Dec 19 for Christmas shopping. What if O/O were left home alone at that time (going with the scenario that they WERE in Cal City at that time. BIG IF) because they just didn’t have the energy to deal with 6 kids and esp the youngest two.

what if O/O were either given something so they’d just sleep while everyone was gone and it went badly? Or while left alone got into something?

Pure speculation MOO

A deeper look at the local adoption process after the California City boys' disappearance

Dec 30, 2020

I dunno but after watching the interview with the Dept of Human Services spokesperson, it seems to me that that foster parents such as the West couple would be in a much better position to prevent their children from "home accidents," let alone leave 3 and 4-year-olds home alone, unattended. That's just crazy!

The report cites that foster parents receive not less than:

• 12 hours of training
• Background checks
• Home inspections
• Fingerprinting
• Medical inspection by a physician
• Psychological assessment with a social worker

We know the cover-up usually turns out to be worse than the crime. I think the disappearance of two children, not one, is very suspicious to be a home accident. I especially don't believe they were left home alone while the adults and other children traveled to Bakersfield on 12/19.

 

[MoeInVA]

The problem with the RECENT accident theory (hot car, drug ingestion, one time punishment/ home alone gone wrong via asphyxiation, injury or hypothermia, drowning) is that it doesn’t explain the lack of any recent photos.

IF the boys truly did go missing 12/19-21, then the only reasons I can think of for lack of photos are:

1. Long term abuse/ starvation
2. Re-homed/sold and parents don’t want them to be found (but if that were true, I think LE would have recovered recent pics from tech) JMO

 

[susiQ]

I dunno but after watching the interview with the Dept of Human Services spokesperson, it seems to me that that foster parents such as the West couple would be in a much better position to prevent their children from "home accidents," let alone leave 3 and 4-year-olds home alone, unattended. That's just crazy!

The report cites that foster parents receive not less than:

• 12 hours of training
• Background checks
• Home inspections
• Fingerprinting
• Medical inspection by a physician
• Psychological assessment with a social worker

We know the cover-up usually turns out to be worse than the crime. I think the disappearance of two children, not one, is very suspicious to be a home accident. I especially don't believe they were left home alone while the adults and other children traveled to Bakersfield on 12/19.

I just have to ask. Does anyone else fine “12 hours of training” for foster parents rather inadequate?? JMHO.

 

[Rachelj1]

The problem with the RECENT accident theory (hot car, drug ingestion, one time punishment/ home alone gone wrong via asphyxiation, injury or hypothermia, drowning) is that it doesn’t explain the lack of any recent photos.

IF the boys truly did go missing 12/19-21, then the only reasons I can think of for lack of photos are:

1. Long term abuse/ starvation
2. Re-homed/sold and parents don’t want them to be found (but if that were true, I think LE would have recovered recent pics from tech) JMO

there isn’t any good excuse they can give for the lack of photos! She was a stay at home mom, she had tons of time to take pictures . You are exactly right .... maybe the pictures would of been evidence of abuse . No pictures no proof .
Moo

 

[anniejanet]

there isn’t any good excuse they can give for the lack of photos! She was a stay at home mom, she had tons of time to take pictures . You are exactly right .... maybe the pictures would of been evidence of abuse . No pictures no proof .
Moo

I've never been a huge picture taker myself. A few trips to Woolworth's for a photoshoot but that's about it. School pictures once a year. Cell phones weren't around in the 80s when my boys were little though. Still of all the things to find strange to me this isn't one of them.

And maybe it suggest a lack (or lack of contact) with out of state family. Who else would photos be taken for?

 

[MsBetsy]

But the problem is where are they? I feel like the cadaver dogs , would of caught their scent when they checked the home that night? When TW left to go "search" the video didn't seem like he carried anything to his van?

MOO

There's always a possibility that there was activity that was not captured on video. There is also a lot of footage we haven't seen. Maybe LE did see suspicious activity and that's what led them back to the property again. They still seem to be focusing on the home. They must have a reason to believe a crime occurred there.

Cadaver dogs did not alert to human remains but that might mean there are no bodies hidden or buried there. If they are deceased they could be anywhere. Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

I've never been a huge picture taker myself. A few trips to Woolworth's for a photoshoot but that's about it. School pictures once a year. Cell phones weren't around in the 80s when my boys were little though. Still of all the things to find strange to me this isn't one of them.

And maybe it suggest a lack (or lack of contact) with out of state family. Who else would photos be taken for?

But now with cell phones 99 percent of people use your phone camera for everything IMO . Lack of recent photos is huge I think and I’m very curious when the last ones and by who were taken .

 

[Rachelj1]

There's always a possibility that there was activity that was not captured on video. There is also a lot of footage we haven't seen. Maybe LE did see suspicious activity and that's what led them back to the property again. They still seem to be focusing on the home. They must have a reason to believe a crime occurred there.

Cadaver dogs did not alert to human remains but that might mean there are no bodies hidden or buried there. If they are deceased they could be anywhere. Imo

Oh I agree totally!!! If the boys are not at that home / outside area ... I truly believe someone is going to have to get a confession .
Moo