Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[Rachelj1]

That’s not nearly as unusual a word as some people think it is....

I don’t think it’s an unusual I just think it’s an interesting choice of words that’s all

 

[Rachelj1]

This is an example of what personally I would do if God for bid my child was ever really missing. The last word I would use would be rambunctious. I would use words like he’s full of life, they love animals, they love to do flips, they love the color they love to color blue… Things like that rambunctious in TW sense of the word made me feel like it wasn’t the nicest way he could’ve described them.

moo

 

[Ontario Mom]

I want to reiterate this is NOT my main theory, but it's the only case I have consistently come to wonder, and after considerable (disgusting) child sales research I think it is viable for this case. Since its the only way (in my mind) that they would still be alive, I think it's worth considering.

My opinion that I had thought it had been discussed that fostering was on both sides of the family? I have an idea who but I don't want to be the source of misinformation!
Were you able to watch the WS live from last night?
The recording (someone parked at Casa Loma apartments recorded JW sister and mom discussing trafficking in Spanish) as well as the threats, warnings and growing animosity towards those who are digging hard/searching was discussed live. Specifically there have been a few youtubers incessantly searching or sleuthing that have discussed being threatened or witnessing the threats. Sounds like Tricia is making contact to bring at least one of them on live (Crenshaw. hopefully!)

"1 in 7 of children reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children became victims of sexual trafficking. Of this amount, 88 percent were coming out of the foster care system."
"Out of" is an interesting and confusing word choice as you have pointed out. chin scratch.
that direct quote is from Unicef, about 1/3 of the way down the article, maybe I had linked incorrectly above: Child Trafficking Hits Close to Home

I really hope there is something to the trafficking angle, as the boys have a chance at life in said situation. my brain says that selling to traffickers is somehow worse than homicide (go figure) and I don't think the parents would come forward with that info to save them from any charges.
At the end of the day, its so ridiculously conpiratory and sensational that I can only put one egg into that basket (okay, some days two)
But deep down, I don't think the boys are with us anymore, and I hope they're able to get any shred of evidence sometime soon.
what a mess. moo!!!!!

It's a mad world when anyone has to hope for trafficking because it means the boys are still alive.

I don't think they were sold, and I don't think they were abducted.
I think the truth, when it comes out, will be as familiar to most of us as the day is long.
Likely the same old story we're all sadly used to.

jmo

 

[anniejanet]

It's a mad world when anyone has to hope for trafficking because it means the boys are still alive.

I don't think they were sold, and I don't think they were abducted.
I think the truth, when it comes out, will be as familiar to most of us as the day is long.
Likely the same old story we're all sadly used to.

jmo

I'm hoping they were taken by a relative of the bio family and are okay.

 

[rosesfromangels]

IThe whole time, though, I would be yelling their name as loudly as I could.....
That's active looking. What TW was doing, I would consider passive looking. MOO.

Respectfully snipped and edited for commentary response.
*Exactly* And this is what stood out for me the most. IWT even the most sedate individual would have been calling the children?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm hoping they were taken by a relative of the bio family and are okay.

This was actually my very first thought and hope.
Subsequent actions by LE make that far less likely. : (

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

It's a mad world when anyone has to hope for trafficking because it means the boys are still alive.

I don't think they were sold, and I don't think they were abducted.
I think the truth, when it comes out, will be as familiar to most of us as the day is long.
Likely the same old story we're all sadly used to.

jmo

You are correct. The fact I could udder the words “I hope they’ve been sold” is ... beyond unimaginable.

I think you are also correct that what we’ve seen over, and over again in so many children’s cases here is that Occam’s Razor has already very sharply pointed to the outcome... I hope it’s just a matter of time before they are able to bring justice for these adorable and innocent babies

 

[MsBetsy]

RSBM

I'm curious, what specificly leads anyone to believe the parents might have sold these kids?

No evidence so far, but if that's what happened, there would have to be a digital trail, I would think. Child Traffickers don't go door to door looking for victims. They usually groom or coerce vulnerable children.

Selling children would also defeat the purpose of having monthly subsidy payments.

There would have to be a money trail, which should be easy to find. Maybe lots of cash, too.

Unless that's what police were looking for in the backyard...

Imo

 

[cvaldez1975]

this case i just stumbled upon, and it is an adoption from foster in CA that ended horrifically with missing kids.

CA - CA - Kaya Centeno, 10, Rohnert Park, 1 June 2012

 

[charminglane]

Virgin River had an episode up in the illegal grow area. It was all underground in shipping containers.
That is what I thought of when the authorities used GPR, measurements and digging. Left over empty grow spaces from the former owners.
Also, do we know if the AP owned any other vehicles than the van?
Has anyone seen shots of the interior of the garage?
I was wondering if there was room for a vehicle in there to park.

 

[LucyOso]

No evidence so far, but if that's what happened, there would have to be a digital trail, I would think. Child Traffickers don't go door to door looking for victims. They usually groom or coerce vulnerable children.

Selling children would also defeat the purpose of having monthly subsidy payments.

There would have to be a money trail, which should be easy to find. Maybe lots of cash, too.

Unless that's what police were looking for in the backyard...

Imo

^^^^^^^ THIS!

 

[MsMarple]

No evidence so far, but if that's what happened, there would have to be a digital trail, I would think. Child Traffickers don't go door to door looking for victims. They usually groom or coerce vulnerable children.

Selling children would also defeat the purpose of having monthly subsidy payments.

There would have to be a money trail, which should be easy to find. Maybe lots of cash, too.

Unless that's what police were looking for in the backyard...

Imo

And to add... why on earth would the (adoptive) parents sell two children while they're under the CPS radar because they are also fostering two additional kids? Why would anyone consider buying them under those circumstances?

To be clear, right now IMO pretty much all scenarios are still on the table so anything is possible. But it seems like selling the kids would be extremely risky. If they had moved out of state (without foster kids of course) then it would be higher on my list.

Even an accident would leave forensic evidence - a drug overdose would likely leave fluids such as vomit, drowning might not leave a trace but the odds of two boys drowning in a tub are pretty low IMO. Anything leaving blood would have been found by now.

The only pause I have is that the HRD (cadaver dog) could have erred and didn't alert or it did and LE is not talking. That may be why LE paid so much attention to the yard.

I dunno, just throwing stuff out there. It's so frustrating thinking about every possibility. Hopefully all will become clear soon! MOO.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Orrin and Orson Case Archive, updated

Orrin and Orson West -CA-

 

[Mitch1]

And to add... why on earth would the (adoptive) parents sell two children while they're under the CPS radar because they are also fostering two additional kids? Why would anyone consider buying them under those circumstances?

I don’t think they were under CPS radar since they weren’t fostering any kids at the time

 

[Rachelj1]

I don’t think they were under CPS radar since they weren’t fostering any kids at the time

They have 2 fosters also

 

[Rachelj1]

No evidence so far, but if that's what happened, there would have to be a digital trail, I would think. Child Traffickers don't go door to door looking for victims. They usually groom or coerce vulnerable children.

Selling children would also defeat the purpose of having monthly subsidy payments.

There would have to be a money trail, which should be easy to find. Maybe lots of cash, too.

Unless that's what police were looking for in the backyard...

Imo

That’s a good point!!

 

[MsMarple]

I don’t think they were under CPS radar since they weren’t fostering any kids at the time

So they adopted the other two kids too? I thought there was some confusion about it per Chief Walker. My bad.

 

[Rachelj1]

So they adopted the other two kids too? I thought there was some confusion about it per Chief Walker. My bad.

They have 2 foster , 2 bio, 2 adopted

 

[Peppery]

Does trafficking or selling for sex mean the child is actually sold, ie I hand you a child and you hand me money, drugs, etc in a permanent exchange? Or does it mean I hand you a child for 2 hours, you hand me payment and at the end of two hours you bring the child back to me, allowing the child to be “sold” multiple times to various people?

 

[charminglane]

Does trafficking or selling for sex mean the child is actually sold, ie I hand you a child and you hand me money, drugs, etc in a permanent exchange? Or does it mean I hand you a child for 2 hours, you hand me payment and at the end of two hours you bring the child back to me, allowing the child to be “sold” multiple times to various people?

Sadly, I believe it would be both.