Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[rosesfromangels]

While this is more likely focused on prostitution of vulnerable victims (usually girls 11-13 yrs. old), I certainly hope LE is investigating whether any of these Perps had any ties (financial or otherwise), to the subjects of this threads investigation.

Yes, I believe the boys were sold. For what, I shudder to speculate.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/bpd-operation-underway-at-desert-star-motel-on-s-union-ave

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MoeInVA]

IF the Wests had a set of foster children in the California City home...they SHOULD have had a new homestudy in September. If the children were fostered and not adopted, (not O and O but the other kids) they should have a new homestudy done, because they can't move foster kids without an updated homestudy. A homestudy is not only a search of the home for adequate housing but also an interview with ALL of the children and an identification of their beds and sleeping arrangements. They would have to have eyeballs on all of the kids in order to approve the move...that's just procedure. So... if two of the children were foster children CPS should have seen O and O around September. Perhaps there were excuses for reasons they were not seen in other months, but if foster kids moved with them, then they should have had an updated homestudy after they moved in. Now if they didn't see the kids CPS made a huge mistake, which makes me tend to think this isn't an ongoing abuse issue as too many people in the system SHOULD have seen the boys.

You make a really interesting point @musemoon !
I think we are all trying to wrap our brains around this new information from the police chief that the two other children were fosters, not adopted. Assuming the chief is correct (since he said it twice), how often should the Wests have had a home visit from CPS?

I hope you are right that CPS involvement means there was likely not a long-term, ongoing abuse, neglect situation in their house.

 

[MsBetsy]

@MsBetsy I sure wish I could agree with you on this but unfortunately I lived through it & watched each tearful heart wrenching time the vindictive case worker weaved her lies & adjusted her paperwork to match her lies. I have remained quiet about this because I know this is rare probably. I would like to think if you were in the position of such a sensitive line of work, you also obtained people skills & compassion. My situation was many years ago so I would hope new screening in employment & new training was implemented.

Yes, things like that can happen and the system still needs a lot of work. There is a high turnover for caseworkers in CPS. I would hope the bad ones don't last too long. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I worked with at risk kids and their families and have seen caseworkers come into the home like police officers when they should present themselves as caring professionals who want to help.

That is a whole topic on it's own but ever since the Family First Prevention Act I think the first goal is to keep families together. It can work the other way around, too. Children who should be removed are left in the home to suffer more abuse.

We don't know what the situation was with the bio mom but if the adoption was fraudulent or her rights were violated hopefully she has documentation and can prove it in court. As long as she followed through with everything ordered by the court and showed up for every hearing she should have been given an opportunity.

Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

We shouldn't quickly dismiss the bio Mom's laments. There are two little boys missing under very suspicious circumstances. The question is, *when* did the crime start? The entire chain of events needs to be reviewed right back to the time the children became wards of the county/state.

Was there any corruption or nefarious dealings related to these two children starting with their "procurement". A thorough review of WHO was involved in TW and JW's ability to obtain *four* children through the system should be scrutinized....with a microscope.

Don't dismiss what the bio Mom is saying. It may just very well solve this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Seattle1]

You make a really interesting point @musemoon !
I think we are all trying to wrap our brains around this new information from the police chief that the two other children were fosters, not adopted. Assuming the chief is correct (since he said it twice), how often should the Wests have had a home visit from CPS?

I hope you are right that CPS involvement means there was likely not a long-term, ongoing abuse, neglect situation in their house.

My concern would be if CPS had to change their home-visit procedures during Sept-Dec 2020 timeframe due to COVID19 and CA Gov mandates.

 

[musemoon]

You make a really interesting point @musemoon !
I think we are all trying to wrap our brains around this new information from the police chief that the two other children were fosters, not adopted. Assuming the chief is correct (since he said it twice), how often should the Wests have had a home visit from CPS?

I hope you are right that CPS involvement means there was likely not a long-term, ongoing abuse, neglect situation in their house.

In California, if you are fostering through DCFS (CPS) the social worker comes to your home once a month to see the fostered children and talk to them. If the foster parents are fostering through a Family Foster Agency FFA, it is a little more hands-on and they come once a week. Recently DCFS has not been taking any new foster parents and is exclusively going through FFAs because they are able to give a higher level of care to their clients. So at the very least, IF the children in the home were foster kids they were seen at least once a month, but each child will also have a CASA (child appointed law advocate) who will see them once a month as well and they will have to attend regular school (no homeschool for foster kids) so...who knows what's happened?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

You make a really interesting point @musemoon !
I think we are all trying to wrap our brains around this new information from the police chief that the two other children were fosters, not adopted. Assuming the chief is correct (since he said it twice), how often should the Wests have had a home visit from CPS?

I hope you are right that CPS involvement means there was likely not a long-term, ongoing abuse, neglect situation in their house.

At this point I don't trust CPS any farther than I can throw them. It's all the $$$$$$$ they need more $$$$$$$ Everytime they screw up,or child dies,or goes missing under their watch. They always throw out how they are lacking in fund$. Yet look up the salary they rake in. Especially the head cheeses. Over a hundred grand a year. Are you kidding me? They need to go to every dead child's grave and explain to them how worthle$$ they are to them. And explain this Fear, discontent reportedly widespread at Kern County Department of Human Services. I know they can't speak publically about it, but they can at least have the guts to visit the children's grave$,and be honest with them. Sorry but thi$ ha$ me $pitting mad. MOO

 

[Lyanna]

How did the other children go to Grandma's when there was a stay at home order, but little O and O couldn't play outside cos of Covid?

 

[MsBetsy]

My concern would be if CPS had to change their home-visit procedures during Sept-Dec 2020 timeframe due to COVID19 and CA Gov mandates.

I would think as foster parents, the Wests would have to inform CPS of the move and there would have been a thorough inspection of the new home. Caseworkers should have visited at least three times since September. Imo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

How did the other children go to Grandma's when there was a stay at home order, but little O and O couldn't play outside cos of Covid?

This this this.

 

[Knox]

I agree with you @MsBetsy that in my experience the courts give the parents every opportunity. However, the extended family in this case may well have been steamrolled and I have seen that before.

If the parents are not on top of it, the courts and CPS can act in ways that seem very unfair and sneaky to the extended family. In my experience, the extended family gets no right to hear about hearings so they are easily steamrolled in my opinion. They are not party to the case so even if they are somehow able to find out about a hearing and show up, they may or may not be allowed in the room and they cannot speak. If they are not the CPS selected foster family (because they didn’t know what was going on, hadn’t had home study yet or whatnot) their only chance is to secure a lawyer well liked in the system to advocate for them through motions and try to get hearing dates, which is expensive.

Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread. JMO based on my experiences.

Doesn't CPS try to place kids with family before entering into seeking long-term foster care? Maybe if no one is qualified or steps up, that's one thing. But everything I have seen indicates they try to do that first?

Obviously, there are exceptions. But I think the key in this case is, the statement you made about "parents being on top of it". What could be more important than keeping track of court dates, complying with reunification services and communicating with the case worker? There has been much said on social media which cannot be repeated here. IMO, the backstory is not being told in complete honesty.

Thanks MoeInVA great post, I do agree generally speaking.

 

[Knox]

It takes A LOT to terminate someone's parental rights. If she showed up to every visit on time, sober, and was willing to work her case plan, she'd have her kids. No judge would take children away from a compliant mother. Many birth parents have lots of reasons why they can't be compliant, but a judge doesn't care about excuses. If she did the work, she'd have her kids...period. No one is going to say that they made a BIG mistake to a blame hungry group of strangers in the media. It's better for her to look like the victim. It's okay to admit to small mistakes (like not being home when a child was injured, or using medical marijuana) but if the court says stop using marijuana to get your kids back, you stop. Period. They say jump...you jump! For a mom who has lost her children for the first time they give them at least two years to get their kids back, so she's not telling the whole truth either...none of them are. You can't be as innocent as she claims to be and lose your parental rights...they give parents a lot of chances to reunify with their children and there are therapists, lawyers, cps workers, and supervisors involved as well as an appeal process which every parent has the right to use...so...

AND....IF the Wests had a set of foster children in the California City home...they SHOULD have had a new homestudy in September. If the children were fostered and not adopted, (not O and O but the other kids) they should have a new homestudy done, because they can't move foster kids without an updated homestudy. A homestudy is not only a search of the home for adequate housing but also an interview with ALL of the children and an identification of their beds and sleeping arrangements. They would have to have eyeballs on all of the kids in order to approve the move...that's just procedure. So... if two of the children were foster children CPS should have seen O and O around September. Perhaps there were excuses for reasons they were not seen in other months, but if foster kids moved with them, then they should have had an updated homestudy after they moved in. Now if they didn't see the kids CPS made a huge mistake, which makes me tend to think this isn't an ongoing abuse issue as too many people in the system SHOULD have seen the boys.

Excellent post, thank you!!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

My concern would be if CPS had to change their home-visit procedures during Sept-Dec 2020 timeframe due to COVID19 and CA Gov mandates.

Haha Gavin " French Laundry" Newsome and his mandates. MOO

 

[Knox]

My concern would be if CPS had to change their home-visit procedures during Sept-Dec 2020 timeframe due to COVID19 and CA Gov mandates.

Interesting point.

At work we are inspected by the State on a monthly basis. When Covid hit in March 2020, all in person inspections halted and are being conducted virtually through email and site pictures. That's still the case in Jan 2021. I wonder if CPS is conducting virtual visits with foster parents?

 

[musemoon]

Interesting point.

At work we are inspected by the State on a monthly basis. When Covid hit in March 2020, all in person inspections halted and are being conducted virtually through email and site pictures. That's still the case in Jan 2021. I wonder if CPS is conducting virtual visits with foster parents?

We are in the process of being certified as foster parents again, to adopt from foster care again in California (but a different county) and during Covid they are doing their visits remotely, but the kids are still seen on screen...all of them. Also, they should be conducting a walkthrough of the house on those remote visits because they need to see the kids living space to make sure it's clean and their beds are fresh, however, the home inspection for the new house should have been done in person. For our home inspection, they will have us stand outside while they inspect the interior of the house and they will need to physically see each child, even during Covid, but that's just for the homesteady, for the vists those are done remotely, but they do have the kids walk to their rooms and show the social worker their rooms and the kitchen on those facetime calls.

 

[MoeInVA]

Doesn't CPS try to place kids with family before entering into seeking long-term foster care? Maybe if no one is qualified or steps up, that's one thing. But everything I have seen indicates they try to do that first?

Obviously, there are exceptions. But I think the key in this case is, the statement you made about "parents being on top of it". What could be more important than keeping track of court dates, complying with reunification services and communicating with the case worker? There has been much said on social media which cannot be repeated here. IMO, the backstory is not being told in complete honesty.

Thanks MoeInVA great post, I do agree generally speaking.

In theory CPS is supposed to try to place with family. My experience was more complicated because we were all out of state. The out of state delays are a huge problem. But even in-state it can be complicated. Once the emergency placement happens, if it’s not with family it gets tough. It really feels sneaky that they don’t inform extended family about hearings. JMO Again, I don’t want to derail the thread.

 

[MsMarple]

I agree with you @MsBetsy that in my experience the courts give the parents every opportunity. However, the extended family in this case may well have been steamrolled and I have seen that before.

If the parents are not on top of it, the courts and CPS can act in ways that seem very unfair and sneaky to the extended family. In my experience, the extended family gets no right to hear about hearings so they are easily steamrolled in my opinion. They are not party to the case so even if they are somehow able to find out about a hearing and show up, they may or may not be allowed in the room and they cannot speak. If they are not the CPS selected foster family (because they didn’t know what was going on, hadn’t had home study yet or whatnot) their only chance is to secure a lawyer well liked in the system to advocate for them through motions and try to get hearing dates, which is expensive.

Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread. JMO based on my experiences.

Prior to the boys going to the Wests for fostering the bio mom's mother had custody of them. For some reason they were removed from her care.
CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

I agree that a competent attorney is necessary to navigate through the court system. We don't know why the boys were removed from their grandmother's care but IMO it does appear that CPS was willing to keep the boys within family at one time.

 

[Knox]

In California, if you are fostering through DCFS (CPS) the social worker comes to your home once a month to see the fostered children and talk to them. If the foster parents are fostering through a Family Foster Agency FFA, it is a little more hands-on and they come once a week. Recently DCFS has not been taking any new foster parents and is exclusively going through FFAs because they are able to give a higher level of care to their clients. So at the very least, IF the children in the home were foster kids they were seen at least once a month, but each child will also have a CASA (child appointed law advocate) who will see them once a month as well and they will have to attend regular school (no homeschool for foster kids) so...who knows what's happened?

Thank you for mentioning the CASA advocates - https://www.turnto23.com/community/...urging-community-members-to-become-volunteers

I checked with an advocate at Church, she has visited her child, taking her to a park, beach, or other outdoor area, albeit no taking off masks at any point. Only two virtual visits since CV19 hit last year, when the county was locked down.

CASA of Kern County
Thank You! We are so grateful to all the caregivers that form the support network for children in foster care. CASA volunteers stay by a child’s side throughout the case, advocating first for reunification when safe and possible. If reunification is not safe or possible, CASA volunteers will advocate for the child to be adopted by, or live with, other relatives or family friends. If that is also not possible, CASA volunteers will work towards adoption by a non-relative. No matter what, CASA volunteers will keep in contact with the support network until the case closes so that everyone continues to put the child’s best interests first. #fostercare #whatisacasa #becomeacasa #reunification To learn more about CASA visit www.kerncasa.org

 

[Knox]

We are in the process of being certified as foster parents again, to adopt from foster care again in California (but a different county) and during Covid they are doing their visits remotely, but the kids are still seen on screen...all of them. Also, they should be conducting a walkthrough of the house on those remote visits because they need to see the kids living space to make sure it's clean and their beds are fresh, however, the home inspection for the new house should have been done in person. For our home inspection, they will have us stand outside while they inspect the interior of the house and they will need to physically see each child, even during Covid, but that's just for the homesteady, for the vists those are done remotely, but they do have the kids walk to their rooms and show the social worker their rooms and the kitchen on those facetime calls.

Thank you for sharing real-life information, it's important to understand the process we've been discussing for a month now. More importantly, thank you for recertifying in anticipation of adopting a child/children. I've been trying to stay focused on the fact that for the most part the system is good and beneficial to kids. Ill motives exist, but it shouldn't color the system as a whole.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Prior to the boys going to the Wests for fostering the bio mom's mother had custody of them. For some reason they were removed from her care.
CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION

I agree that a competent attorney is necessary to navigate through the court system. We don't know why the boys were removed from their grandmother's care but IMO it does appear that CPS was willing to keep the boys within family at one time.

Thanks for posting. I think it was horrible for the news crew to keep filming while the bio Mom had a full blown panic attack/meltdown. Her obvious grief and pain was horrible to witness.

amateur opinion and speculation