Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[AmandaReckonwith]

Even if they hadn't physically seen relatives, pictures are shared. Social media, text messages, email, facetime...
We see each other virtually.

IMO the boys have been gone, l.o.n.g. gone.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Nobody, friends or family have come forward to say they’ve seen the boys recently except the AP who I don’t believe their story.

I think the AP adopted the boys with the intention of selling them. Big money to be paid for these kids. A human trafficking bust went down lately in Bakersfield and another huge sting in LA that included many CA police departments 450 arrested. Some missing children were found. I posted the link a few threads back.

 

[MoeInVA]

It would make sense to me that those are the most recent photos the extended West family have if they didn't see the boys in 2020 due to COVID. I'm not sure that's a fact though. If they didn't see them in 2020, is there a Gma mix-up then? ie: It seems as though most have assumed that the Gma who last saw them in Dec. was Gma West. If that has been clarified, I missed it. MOO

To my knowledge, this is all that has been stated in MSM about grandmas last interactions - and in no case was the grandma specified as maternal or paternal:

• Other 4 kids at grandma’s at time parents reported O and O disappearance 12/21 (source: TW)
• Last sighting by a person outside of adopted parents was grandma in Bakersfield (source: Cal City police chief... when asked, he refused to comment on the date of this sighting)
• In an interview that aired about 1 day after the above interview, CCPD chief revealed the siblings last reported seeing O and O the 19th. He was not asked, nor did he disclose the location.
• JMO - the grandma in Bakersfield last sighting was not the 19th, I suspect it was much further in the past. Otherwise, I think he would have revealed the date like he did very shortly thereafter Re sibling last sighting.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

Perhaps since LE termed the case “foul play” from day 2, they might be in leaning towards not needing photos when looking for remains? The only searches involving LE to my knowledge has been from the possible tips & leads & not from their own agenda. Correct me if I’m wrong.

LE’s focus have been more of the recovery end. Digging in the backyard, sifting through ashes, looking in walls & under the cement & ground....

MOO & info from Chief Jon Walkers PC.

Exactly (sadly). If LE thought there was a need for different/more/newer photos, I would actually be encouraged. But the fact that (as far as I know) there hasn't been a media blitz asking for pictures from relatives, friends, security cameras, etc. speaks volumes, IMO. If LE sees no benefit to the parents sharing more photos... then I accept that and all it implies.

I'm just not big on people trying to garner public attention & sympathy if there is no underlying benefit to the case or the children. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

To my knowledge, this is all that has been stated in MSM about grandmas last interactions - and in no case was the grandma specified as maternal or paternal:

• Other 4 kids at grandma’s at time parents reported O and O disappearance 12/21 (source: TW)
• Last sighting by a person outside of adopted parents was grandma in Bakersfield (source: Cal City police chief... when asked, he refused to comment on the date of this sighting)
• In an interview that aired about 1 day after the above interview, CCPD chief revealed the siblings last reported seeing O and O the 19th. He was not asked, nor did he disclose the location.
• JMO - the grandma in Bakersfield last sighting was not the 19th, I suspect it was much further in the past. Otherwise, I think he would have revealed the date like he did very shortly thereafter Re sibling last sighting.

EEK! Thank you for responding Moe, or I would not have realized that I mistakenly posted "the Gma who last saw them in Dec." Too late to edit my post so I will correct below. My apologies. MOO

It would make sense to me that those are the most recent photos the extended West family have if they didn't see the boys in 2020 due to COVID. I'm not sure that's a fact though. If they didn't see them in 2020, is there a Gma mix-up then? ie: It seems as though most have assumed that the Gma who last saw them in Dec. was Gma West. If that has been clarified, I missed it. MOO

CORRECTION: BBM The date of the last time Orrin and Orson were seen by a grandmother in Bakersfield has not been released. Their four siblings are the ones who said they last saw the boys on Dec. 19.

 

[MoeInVA]

Exactly (sadly). If LE thought there was a need for different/more/newer photos, I would actually be encouraged. But the fact that (as far as I know) there hasn't been a media blitz asking for pictures from relatives, friends, security cameras, etc. speaks volumes, IMO. If LE sees no benefit to the parents sharing more photos... then I accept that and all it implies.

I'm just not big on people trying to garner public attention & sympathy if there is no underlying benefit to the case or the children. JMO

Yes. I understand that hypothetically extended family could find themselves in a position where it would be disingenuous to do a full fledged media campaign to increase publicity about their missing loved ones, organize searches etc, when in reality they are convinced that said loved ones were neither abducted nor wandered off. But saying so would implicate their relatives before an arrest is made.

 

[katydid23]

Im speculating here but I have a feeling that the boys were supposed to have a visit with the bio mom on Christmas Day possibly , and that may be why they got backed in the corner.

Were they adopted? Bio-mom's don't usually visit on Christmas unless it is an open adoption, which this probably wasn't. JMO

 

[TTF14]

Were they adopted? Bio-mom's don't usually visit on Christmas unless it is an open adoption, which this probably wasn't. JMO

Certainly doesn't sound like it was, sadly .

 

[katydid23]

EEK! Thank you for responding Moe, or I would not have realized that I mistakenly posted "the Gma who last saw them in Dec." Too late to edit my post so I will correct below. My apologies. MOO

CORRECTION: BBM The date of the last time Orrin and Orson were seen by a grandmother in Bakersfield has not been released. Their four siblings are the ones who said they last saw the boys on Dec. 19.

The 4 siblings say they last saw the youngest boys on Dec 19th? Would that be when they were dropped off with Grandma?

 

[PommyMommy]

The 4 siblings say they last saw the youngest boys on Dec 19th? Would that be when they were dropped off with Grandma?

Yes, the siblings last saw them Dec 19 but we don't know where.

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

 

[MoeInVA]

Yes, the siblings last saw them Dec 19 but we don't know where.

Security camera footage from two days before Orrin and Orson West went missing | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Chief Walker says the parents claim they dropped off four of their children, not including Orrin and Orson, at a family member's home that day. Walker says Dec. 19 was the last day the other four children say they saw Orrin and Orson.

Yeah this is where I switched from team “‘missing a long *advertiser censored* time” to team “neglected a long *advertiser censored* time”.

I could be wrong, but I have kids in the 4-10 age range and I believe they would be telling some semblance of the truth. The only explanation I can come up with for why these two tots would not be photographed for over a year but also were seen by 4 siblings the 19th is long term abuse and neglect. JMO. Sadly.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I think that the children might be telling the police whatever their parents told them to tell the police. If something bad did happen to Orrin and Orson in their own home, the children were surely aware that whoever harmed those little boys would not hesitate to do the same thing to them. If so, the other kids may not be choosing to lie, rather choosing to obey someone that they were afraid of. MOO

 

[MoeInVA]

I think that the children might be telling the police whatever their parents told them to tell the police. If something bad did happen to Orrin and Orson in their own home, the children were surely aware that whoever harmed those little boys would not hesitate to do the same thing to them. If so, the other kids may not be choosing to lie, rather choosing to obey someone that they were afraid of. MOO

Possible. My children would not be able to hold a lie for long, but then again they haven’t been under threat. The fact that the chief said the 4 siblings claimed to see them the 19th adds extra credence to the sighting, but who knows how precise he was being or the circumstances... not us.

When my juvenile relatives were taken into protective custody a couple years ago due to abuse and neglect, they were not allowed to visit relatives or each other until the forensic interview occurred some 3 weeks later. To protect their testimony. But I don’t know what happened with the siblings in this case.

 

[susiQ]

I’d like to send the AP a link to Jordon and Lindsey Piper’s video court appearance from today. You know, just to give them a feel for what they’re lookin’ at down the road. These two monsters couldn’t even look at each other. JMHO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think that the children might be telling the police whatever their parents told them to tell the police. If something bad did happen to Orrin and Orson in their own home, the children were surely aware that whoever harmed those little boys would not hesitate to do the same thing to them. If so, the other kids may not be choosing to lie, rather choosing to obey someone that they were afraid of. MOO

On the other hand, the children might end up being crucial to the investigation. They are witnesses to what may have happened in the days or weeks leading up to the boy's disappearance.

I don't think children that age have the skills to mislead or provide details to support a false narrative, even when they are coached or "told" what to say. At least not for very long.

They might be starting to feel safe and secure where they are. As time goes by they may feel more comfortable with their caseworkers and will start opening up.

Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

FEB 8, 2020
Police, extended family of adoptive parents of missing boys ask for threats to end | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Eyewitness News spoke to neighbors who live next to the parents of Trazelle West (the adoptive father of four year-old Orrin and three year-old Orson) in Bakersfield, who say there was a peaceful march on Saturday where the parents of Trazelle live.

Neighbors say there's been other times though when they've heard people shouting threats to the West family.

[...]

Bakersfield Police says a lot of the misinformation is coming from social media pages and quickly spreads.

[...]

"In the last month or so we've received calls regarding criminal threats, we've received calls for checks for welfare, we've received calls for trespassing and also for verbal peace disturbances in the area," Brackett said.

She says the harassment includes people outside the house chanting "Where are the boys?" and people from around the country calling the home and making death threats.

She says it's good people are passionate about finding the boys, but not good they threatening family members and diverting the attention of police from the boys.

"However when they're putting those efforts into threats or harassment or trying to intimidate some of these families or even witnesses involved in these cases, it really takes away law enforcement's time to be able focus on our missing boys," Brackett said.

[...]

 

[MoeInVA]

FEB 8, 2020
Police, extended family of adoptive parents of missing boys ask for threats to end | KBAK (bakersfieldnow.com)
Eyewitness News spoke to neighbors who live next to the parents of Trazelle West (the adoptive father of four year-old Orrin and three year-old Orson) in Bakersfield, who say there was a peaceful march on Saturday where the parents of Trazelle live.

Neighbors say there's been other times though when they've heard people shouting threats to the West family.

[...]

Bakersfield Police says a lot of the misinformation is coming from social media pages and quickly spreads.

[...]

"In the last month or so we've received calls regarding criminal threats, we've received calls for checks for welfare, we've received calls for trespassing and also for verbal peace disturbances in the area," Brackett said.

She says the harassment includes people outside the house chanting "Where are the boys?" and people from around the country calling the home and making death threats.

She says it's good people are passionate about finding the boys, but not good they threatening family members and diverting the attention of police from the boys.

"However when they're putting those efforts into threats or harassment or trying to intimidate some of these families or even witnesses involved in these cases, it really takes away law enforcement's time to be able focus on our missing boys," Brackett said.

[...]

“All of the boys’ grandparents have been questioned and their homes have been searched. The public can rest assured that all viable leads have been pursued, including reports of yard fires. To date we have no reason to consider the grandparents suspects” -the police could say, if they wanted to address public concerns.

 

[PommyMommy]

FEB 8, 2021
LIVE: Candlelight vigil held for Orrin and Orson West, the two boys who went missing in California City on Dec. 21. 17's Perla Shaheen provides an update.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=236656771511566

 

[swedeheart]

This is live now:

 

[MsBetsy]

“All of the boys’ grandparents have been questioned and their homes have been searched. The public can rest assured that all viable leads have been pursued, including reports of yard fires. To date we have no reason to consider the grandparents suspects” -the police could say, if they wanted to address public concerns.

I don't think LE owes the public specific details about their investigation. They have already said they've recieved around 2500 tips, and are continuing to work on the case every day. They also said they followed through on 1000 tips and not one was credible. I bet many of them involved the grandparent's house in Bakersfield. LE cautioned against rumors and speculation, which includes any suspicion that the grandparents are involved. Imo