Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[MimosaMornings]

Im speculating here but I have a feeling that the boys were supposed to have a visit with the bio mom on Christmas Day possibly , and that may be why they got backed in the corner.

Did bio mom have regular visits?
Wonder when she last saw them?

 

[Rachelj1]

Did bio mom have regular visits?
Wonder when she last saw them?

I don’t think she had regular visits but she did see them every now and again. Not very often .

moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Did bio mom have regular visits?
Wonder when she last saw them?

I think she said she last saw them in 2018. In her interview she said she did not know the Wests. The Wests also said they had not been in communication with her. Imo

 

[susiQ]

Im speculating here but I have a feeling that the boys were supposed to have a visit with the bio mom on Christmas Day possibly , and that may be why they got backed in the corner.

I don’t believe so. My understanding is bio mom had no contact with the boys for some time. More likely they had to produce the boys for either a family affair or CPS. Perhaps not a CPS visit, virtual or otherwise, for O & O, but for the two fosters that were in their care. JMO

 

[Rachelj1]

I think she said she last saw them in 2018. In her interview she said she did not know them. The Wests also said they had not been in communication with her. Imo

Yea, I'm speculating BUT..... it would not surprise me. She has been very very upset, and she was there almost immediately when she found out they were missing.

MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I don’t believe so. My understanding is bio mom had no contact with the boys for some time. More likely they had to produce the boys for either a family affair or CPS. JMO

I could be completely wrong!

 

[Lusitana]

I have to wonder if the public is making more of a thing out of the pictures of the boys, than LE is. LE have their pics, and they've distributed them. For all we know, those are the only pics they asked for, and they're fine with those being the pics we're all seeing.

I could be wrong, but has there been any mention from LE that the parents are not cooperating by not providing different/more pics?

Is it possible the public is so used to seeing people posting 8 million pics of their kids online on their various social media accounts (oddly, a practice many LE and many victim advocates strongly advise against doing), that because we're not seeing that here, we assume the worst?

Just looking at this from a different angle.

Those pictures don’t look recent. That’s the issue, they released one picture of each kid and they don’t look recent. What’s the point if they probably don’t even look like that anymore?

Yeah, LE might have not asked for more pictures but why is the family not concerned enough about posting recent pictures of two missing kids?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Of course LE asked for recent photos. Probably within a few minutes of showing up. MOO.

 

[K9Enzo]

I'm not following this case as closely as many of you here. My first thoughts when I saw the news of the missing toddler brothers in MSM, was the pictures released looked odd. Odd in that, it was 2020 and those were the most current and clear pics of these two boys? Not sure what that says, if anything. IMO

 

[Rachelj1]

I'm not following this case as closely as many of you here. My first thoughts when I saw the news of the missing toddler brothers in MSM, was the pictures released looked odd. Odd in that, it was 2020 and those were the most current and clear pics of these two boys? Not sure what that says, if anything. IMO

I think it says a lot !! And odd is right !!

moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Yea, I'm speculating BUT..... it would not surprise me. She has been very very upset, and she was there almost immediately when she found out they were missing.

MOO

She probably found out where they lived from LE. The bio aunt also did not seem to know they lived in the neighborhood or that they had been adopted. She asked them if they were the "foster parents." Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

She probably found out where they lived from LE. The bio aunt also did not seem to know they lived in the neighborhood or that they had been adopted. She asked them if they were the "foster parents." Imo

I don’t think she knew that they moved .

 

[NCHydrangea]

I can’t find it, but that’s what I remember. Bio Mom hadn’t seen the boys in a couple of years and no contact with APs. That’s why I was surprised that she showed up at the West’s so quickly, but she was probably one of the first ones questioned by LE.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don’t think she knew that they moved .

Yes, after the adoption was final in April 2019 she would not have been given any information about them, unless they had an open adoption. Imo

 

[TLobo]

I don't think we can rule out the boys going missing in advance of a visit with someone (whether CPS, extended family), but IMO there's a near 0% chance it was with bio mom. She hadn't seen them in 2 years, did not know the APs or where they lived, and has no legal claim to the boys since they were adopted. If I remember correctly, she heard about the 2 missing boys when there were no names or photos released yet, and just kind of put things together to figure out it was them.

Unrelated to bio mom, but I don't understand the strategy of the extended family releasing even older photos of the boys when the problem with the original photos shared by LE is that they weren't recent. Like, have you seen these little boys, this is what they looked like 2 years ago. MO(confused)O.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I can’t find it, but that’s what I remember. Bio Mom hadn’t seen the boys in a couple of years and no contact with APs. That’s why I was surprised that she showed up at the West’s so quickly, but she was probably one of the first ones questioned by LE.

I believe I read somehwere that she found out about the boys being missing from the news.
I don't think there was any contact at all, since she (bio mom) did say herself that she didn't even know them (the Wests).

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks @PommyMommy.
Looks like there could be a bruise in healing stage under Orrin’s left eye? I wonder when these pics were taken, if the boys were in the AP’s care at the time.
Little guy may have come about the bruise innocently.
Maybe, maybe not.....

At any rate, just an observation and things that make you go hmmm...

IMHO

I don't think we can rule out the boys going missing in advance of a visit with someone (whether CPS, extended family), but IMO there's a near 0% chance it was with bio mom. She hadn't seen them in 2 years, did not know the APs or where they lived, and has no legal claim to the boys since they were adopted. If I remember correctly, she heard about the 2 missing boys when there were no names or photos released yet, and just kind of put things together to figure out it was them.

Unrelated to bio mom, but I don't understand the strategy of the extended family releasing even older photos of the boys when the problem with the original photos shared by LE is that they weren't recent. Like, have you seen these little boys, this is what they looked like 2 years ago. MO(confused)O.

FEB 3, 2021
Perla Shaheen KGET
Photos of the boys shared by RD, their biological mother

 

[MoeInVA]

A few statistics to share while we await updates:

• 73% of child abuse or neglect deaths involve neglect; 46% involve physical abuse
• 80% of child abuse or neglect deaths involve a parent as a perpetrator. mom acting alone was responsible in more than 1/4 deaths, mom alone is more common than parents acting together (22%) or father acting alone (16%)

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/fatality.pdf

 

[TLobo]

FEB 3, 2021
Perla Shaheen KGET
Photos of the boys shared by RD, their biological mother

Ah thanks, I got the bio mom photos and the extended adoptive family photos mixed up - I was thinking of the side-by-side image of the boys, one in what appears to be an infant car seat. Those are 2+ years old.

But the ones shared in the ABC news article by the extended family, with the star carpet, are at least a year old, as well. I have my own 4 year old and my own 3 year old; my 3 year old is 3 months younger than the younger O and has not been able to fit in a high chair like that since she was maybe 1.5 (and she's a skinny minnie) MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Ah thanks, I got the bio mom photos and the extended adoptive family photos mixed up - I was thinking of the side-by-side image of the boys, one in what appears to be an infant car seat. Those are 2+ years old.

But the ones shared in the ABC news article by the extended family, with the star carpet, are at least a year old, as well. I have my own 4 year old and my own 3 year old; my 3 year old is 3 months younger than the younger O and has not been able to fit in a high chair like that since she was maybe 1.5 (and she's a skinny minnie) MOO.

It would make sense to me that those are the most recent photos the extended West family have if they didn't see the boys in 2020 due to COVID. I'm not sure that's a fact though. If they didn't see them in 2020, is there a Gma mix-up then? ie: It seems as though most have assumed that the Gma who last saw them in Dec. was Gma West. If that has been clarified, I missed it. MOO