Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

[MojaveMave]

It is what it is - but for some people, it can be something like sniffing glue

<<These reports indicate that brief exposure to large amounts of coal tar creosote may result in a rash or severe irritation of the skin, chemical burns of the surfaces of the eye, convulsions and mental confusion, kidney or liver problems, unconsciousness, or even death.>>

ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Creosote.

That applies mostly to burning products made with creosote resins, not necessarily the wild bushes themselves. But we were always told not to breath in the fumes/smoke when the bushes were burning. In a standard household fireplace, the danger would likely be more of the resin coating the chimney than fumes causing problems. Ranchers commonly like to burn them to get rid of them.

 

[Warwick7]

some ppl dont like being soley responsible for more than one kid under 5 at a time. i found that out when my second was born. i love all my kids but i never placed myself in the position to have multiple small kids at one time again.

I totally get this. But they didn't say it would be too much for Grandma and Grandpa to handle, they said they were too young.

 

[Knox]

I am assuming at this time that they do have a fireplace ?
Was collecting wood a usual, normal activity for him ?
Imo.

We're literally talking about sticks, there is no real wood to speak of in that vacant lot. So yes, I think it's sort of odd. It made me wonder if money was tight and they were trying to save on utility use. But I guess it could just as easily be they wanted the fire for ambience.

Or - it's a way of explaining why the gate was open and how the boys got out of the backyard.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I have a large family and I'd say there is nothing even remotely odd about grandparents not taking all the grandkids and the youngest ones staying home. I'd suggest that is actually way more common with large families.

RSBM
8 kids here, and yes, it's not only common it's the only way it's ever been. My adult kids who have children of their own, do the exact same. Older grands have stayed over at my place where the smallies stay home.

Nothing at all unusual about it for me.

 

[cvaldez1975]

We're literally talking about sticks, there is no real wood to speak of in that vacant lot. So yes, I think it's sort of odd. It made me wonder if money was tight and they were trying to save on utility use. But I guess it could just as easily be they wanted the fire for ambience.

Or - it's a way of explaining why the gate was open and how the boys got out of the backyard.

its possible they used gas for heat and didnt have any.

 

[Mistree]

It just seemed odd that he said he was getting firewood from outside the gate.

I stated this several pages back. I looked on goggle maps and was unable to find a source for firewood that he mentions is all over the place.

 

[legalmomma]

The Central Park is a seven minute walk from the house. Complete with a lake. If they had gone to the park as a family the boys may have remembered how to get there. I pray this area has been searched thoroughly.

 

[GailAnne]

Why is a 4 year old too young to go to the grandparents?[/QUOTE]

Could be the grandparents didn't have room for 5 or 6 kids in their house or taking on 6 kids was simply too many considering how active and moody 3 and 4 year olds can be.

 

[Knox]

its possible they used gas for heat and didnt have any.

Propane price this time of year is off the charts, we're rural so we have a tank. I had a fill-up last week, $800 bucks for 200 gallons.
I have a feeling it was more about explaining why the gate was open, but we'll see if LE has something to say about that. Hopefully a reporter will ask that question.

 

[Knox]

I totally get this. But they didn't say it would be too much for Grandma and Grandpa to handle, they said they were too young.

In all fairness, they were addressing the bio family at that time. Maybe they didn't want to say the boys were too much to handle. Remember TW's unrelated comment about them being "rambunctious"?

 

[LietKynes]

Per the Nixle advisory last Wednesday, which was the last official communication about this, they said (red emphasis added is mine)

Thanks for linking this.

If LE believe the boys wandered off, then that's good enough for me.
So the pair may have been supervised but all it takes is a brief minute of not watching them and Orson and Orrin slipped away ?
I would imagine LE have some surveillance footage by now that shows the children walking away, and this is why they believe the boys left on foot ?
Very sad and with the cold weather it's possible they fell into a creek or lake ?
Have SAR dogs been used ?

Hoping there are answers soon !

 

[Ontario Mom]

I totally get this. But they didn't say it would be too much for Grandma and Grandpa to handle, they said they were too young.

Little kids are just more demanding on your time and attention than older kids are.
The "too young" comment made perfect sense to me.

 

[Peppery]

Thanks @Knox
Hmmmm... Why is a 4 year old too young to go to the grandparents?

plenty of innocent explanations
-one or both had behavioral issues stemming from experiences prior to adoption that grandparents aren’t equipped to deal with
-one or both had toileting issues
-one or both would not sleep in different places, beds, cribs or at grandparents
-grandparents did not have room for 6 children to sleep at their home or ride safely in a vehicle
-grandparents planned activities not geared toward 3 & 4 year olds (we don’t know the ages of the four other children, they could all be teens and have been doing big kid things)
-parents wanted time with youngest. It can be difficult to spend one on one time with 6 kids, maybe they wanted to do things geared toward younger kids.

These are just a few off the top of my head

 

[Dawookie]

Thanks for linking this.

If LE believe the boys wandered off, then that's good enough for me.
So the pair may have been supervised but all it takes is a brief minute of not watching them and Orson and Orrin slipped away ?
I would imagine LE have some surveillance footage by now that shows the children walking away, and this is why they believe the boys left on foot ?
Very sad and with the cold weather it's possible they fell into a creek or lake ?
Have SAR dogs been used ?

Hoping there are answers soon !

They brought in a dog the next night and didn't hit on scent outside of the house

 

[Warwick7]

Does anyone have a transcript of the whole video?
I am trying to listen and I can't hear everything.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If LE thinks the kids left on foot, have their actions after the first day been in accordance with that belief? I'm honestly asking.
IMO they don't have video of the boys walking alone outside, because if they did, why would they not release that information?

 

[Knox]

Thanks for linking this.

If LE believe the boys wandered off, then that's good enough for me.
So the pair may have been supervised but all it takes is a brief minute of not watching them and Orson and Orrin slipped away ?
I would imagine LE have some surveillance footage by now that shows the children walking away, and this is why they believe the boys left on foot ?
Very sad and with the cold weather it's possible they fell into a creek or lake ?
Have SAR dogs been used ?

Hoping there are answers soon !

Yes, the Nixle advisory stated the boys wondered off, because that is what the parents stated.

What's interesting is the same day the Nixle was issued, CCPD & the FBI brought in lights and began digging in the back yard of the home at night. Make of that what you will.

 

[Gigi3]

If LE thinks the kids left on foot, have their actions after the first day been in accordance with that belief? I'm honestly asking.
IMO they don't have video of the boys walking alone outside, because if they did, why would they not release that information?

Definitely agree. This is not typical behavior of LE in missing children cases. I would expect an LE presser with photos and information for the public. Has there been any BOLO’s? I’ve been trying to read everything, but I know I’ve missed some.

 

[MojaveMave]

They brought in a dog the next night and didn't hit on scent outside of the house

To be fair, there are no official LE sources who have said this that I have seen. <modsnip>

 

[AncientHysteria]

Sending some of the children to grandparents and keeping some children at home is new to me. Where I come from, this generation’s grandparents are actively involved in the grandchildren’s lives. We don’t have many older grandparents either, but yeah I guess if they were older it would make it harder to deal with so many kids.

My parents both have health problem. My mom will only watch them with the oldest 2s help. My father only likes watching 1 or 2 at a time because they are hard to keep up with. So I understand only sending the older ones.