Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[Satchie]

I think they'd been through a long and terrible ordeal by the time they lay down: rising emotional distress, an increasing loss of hope, and the physical agony of thirst/heat cramps/heat exhaustion/heat stroke. Rachel may have been very near death, in delirium, having convulsions. To helplessly watch her suffering and death, unable to do anything , knowing they would both soon die, I can understand his decision.

 

[yukoncornelius]

After reviewing social media for both Joseph and Rachel several weeks ago, I always thought murder/suicide was a likely outcome. Joseph had dropped out of college and was into hallucinogens. I found hardly any photos on social media of Joseph with friends. He was also into cosplay, fantasy games and asian girls, perhaps to an unhealthy degree. In fact, if you peruse his "likes", it's fairly disturbing and definitely not "mainstream."

There is also one post on Joseph's Facebook from 2015, that in retrospect, I find very disturbing. Joseph captioned the photo "Things are not always what they seem."

The trip up to the Joshua Tree area a couple weeks prior to his trip with Rachel also deserves another look. I doubt a lot of twenty year-olds go driving on Twentynine Palms Highway, "looking at restaurants and shops." Joseph and his buddy likely went up to the desert to do drugs, but it could have been more sinister. Messaros initially mentioned Joseph and his buddy were up there for a "scouting trip". Why would he have thought that or used those words? Maybe Joseph's buddy can help shed more light on this. I wonder if he will be questioned.

I believe Joseph was not in a good place and ultimately his unrequited love for Rachel led to the murder/suicide. Rachel may have unknowingly given mixed signals agreeing to an overnight trip with Joseph. Her social media indicated an interest in pot and raves and she had also recently dropped out of college. Perhaps she agreed only because she wanted to do some shrooms in the desert (apparently this is a thing), but he wanted something more. When she rebuffed his advances, he decided "if I can't have you, no one can".

I would much prefer that it be a mercy/suicide, but don't feel that's a likely scenario. Considering that in the almost three months that they were exposed to the elements and wild animals, I don't know that the positioning of their clothing tells us much. I don't know that I've ever heard of a mercy/suicide outside of situations involving illness and elderly people.

Because I am a father, I must say that I feel extreme sadness towards Joseph's father for I feel he may not have truly known his son (and I never want that to be the case with my own two son's). I can't blame him for wanting to believe the best in Joseph.

 

[ecomango]

Stalker? Bullet casings away from the bodies?

More from Orbeso family and what the police told them as well as more insight as to why Joseph brought a gun, evidence of bandaged wounds, bullet casings...:

-Joseph's parents say their son did have a gun registered under his name and took it along to protect Rachel and a friend confirmed that with a text saying he took it to protect her from a man who had been stalking Rachel. stalker.
- They also say empty water bottles, food wrappers and bandaged wounds they were found with show the two friends tried to survive as long as they could in brutal July conditions in the desert but when they realized no one was coming they had no choice but to take their own lives.
- "I can't even imagine what he went through in his mind to even think that he could do this and I'm sure he struggles with himself because away from them there were bullet casings because he didn't want to do it ... his heart was broken, his heart was broken for her it was beyond courage because it was just for love," says Joseph's mom.

http://www.kmir.com/story/36648617/...on-killed-friend-and-himself-to-end-suffering

 

[wsthrow]

I found hardly any photos on social media of Joseph with friends. He was also into cosplay, fantasy games and asian girls, perhaps to an unhealthy degree. In fact, if you peruse his "likes", it's fairly disturbing and definitely not "mainstream."

He liked anime, certain games, drugs and vaping, astrology/pseudoscience mumbo jumbo, swords, edm, cosplay, girls, his rx-8. She was very much into vaping and weed. But honestly none of that is disturbing or alarming. Just because some of his interests aren't mainstream and might be considered "weird" by the general public doesn't make them disturbing. There's plenty of people who like those same things and aren't nutjobs and psychos. It's not like he liked a bunch of pages with twisted violent stuff.

There is also one post on Joseph's Facebook from 2015, that in retrospect, I find very disturbing. Joseph captioned the photo "Things are not always what they seem."

Young people like being edgy or "emo." I don't know if you can read that much into it especially when it was posted a couple years ago.

I would much prefer that it be a mercy/suicide, but don't feel that's a likely scenario. I don't know that I've ever heard of a mercy/suicide outside of situations involving illness and elderly people.

Both cases are perfectly likely. There are certainly some suspicious circumstances, but without more details nothing's definitive. Slowly being cooked by the sun at 114 f, with no water, feeling delirious and exhausted, imminent organ failure...those are extreme enough conditions where a quick ending would be preferable.

Edit:

Messaros initially mentioned Joseph and his buddy were up there for a "scouting trip". Why would he have thought that or used those words?

I was looking through facebook and on a relative's profile (won't link because forum rules and privacy), in a comment another relative said it was to find restaurants to take her to for her birthday. So this would've been a potential explanation.

 

[BubblexTea]

I'm not sure if this has been shared yet, but here's a pic of Rachel and Joseph with friends on a Roller Coaster:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEFlZZtBVed/

Rachel's and Joseph's instagram usernames are tagged on that photo.

I think this photo can give us some idea on what their friendship/past relationship was like.

 

[TruthIsStranger]

Further, it could explain the embracing -- huddled to keep warm at night.

It was daylight . Shorts pulled down to protect against sun. Why worry about cold if you just fatally shot yourself?

 

[TruthIsStranger]

I'm having a hard time understanding how he could have been in an embrace with her after fatally shooting himself.


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"Slowish" death by gunshot wound...it happens sometimes.

 

[TruthIsStranger]

After reviewing social media for both Joseph and Rachel several weeks ago, I always thought murder/suicide was a likely outcome. Joseph had dropped out of college and was into hallucinogens. I found hardly any photos on social media of Joseph with friends. He was also into cosplay, fantasy games and asian girls, perhaps to an unhealthy degree. In fact, if you peruse his "likes", it's fairly disturbing and definitely not "mainstream."

There is also one post on Joseph's Facebook from 2015, that in retrospect, I find very disturbing. Joseph captioned the photo "Things are not always what they seem." View attachment 125100

The trip up to the Joshua Tree area a couple weeks prior to his trip with Rachel also deserves another look. I doubt a lot of twenty year-olds go driving on Twentynine Palms Highway, "looking at restaurants and shops." Joseph and his buddy likely went up to the desert to do drugs, but it could have been more sinister. Messaros initially mentioned Joseph and his buddy were up there for a "scouting trip". Why would he have thought that or used those words? Maybe Joseph's buddy can help shed more light on this. I wonder if he will be questioned.

I believe Joseph was not in a good place and ultimately his unrequited love for Rachel led to the murder/suicide. Rachel may have unknowingly given mixed signals agreeing to an overnight trip with Joseph. Her social media indicated an interest in pot and raves and she had also recently dropped out of college. Perhaps she agreed only because she wanted to do some shrooms in the desert (apparently this is a thing), but he wanted something more. When she rebuffed his advances, he decided "if I can't have you, no one can".

I would much prefer that it be a mercy/suicide, but don't feel that's a likely scenario. Considering that in the almost three months that they were exposed to the elements and wild animals, I don't know that the positioning of their clothing tells us much. I don't know that I've ever heard of a mercy/suicide outside of situations involving illness and elderly people.

Because I am a father, I must say that I feel extreme sadness towards Joseph's father for I feel he may not have truly known his son (and I never want that to be the case with my own two son's). I can't blame him for wanting to believe the best in Joseph.

I definitely see what you mean. This scenario seems equally likely. I could go either way. That picture is scary.

Rachel's instagram surprised me, for sure. She seems a lot more wild--a LOT--than her newspaper clipping photos suggest, and she seems like someone that solitary and nerdy Joseph would think was super cool, hip, and sexy.

His dropping out indicates depression to me, and he may have seen her as the prize that would make everything better. She also dropped out, but my guess, based on her SM pics/comments would be that she was either bored or partying a bit too much to keep up with academics.

I wonder if he offered her this birthday trip as a way to woo her back and show her how cool he was, too--the overkill of not one but four hallucinogenics suggests a desire to impress and please.

After a couple days (not sure re: #) in one hotel room, maybe he realized things weren't going the way he wanted. Maybe he felt sad and/or angry. Maybe she only went on the trip because she had lost touch with her college friends and had nothing else to do. Maybe he felt taken advantage of after he realized this.

It's possible that the gun was brought for protection (or to impress), but then was used for a sinister act. Think about it--what were the friends scouting out several weeks before. If it was shops and restaurants that's pretty cute and romantic--this seems very geared towards pleasing Rachel, not himself. If a guy is planning a high stakes event, yet he wants it to seem effortless, he would plan and prepare, (a B&B for goodness sakes). He would try out the restaurants to make sure he took her to the best ones, etc. Would a guy make an effort like this for just a friend? Doubtful.

So, yeah, I can see it this way, too

 

[flower_girl]

Ew, the fantasy *advertiser censored* going on in the last page is disgusting. You're out of touch with 20-somethings and reaching extremely far. Just because he's not into football and cars doesn't mean he's a violent murderer, angry about being in the friendzone.

 

[flower_girl]

Nothing on her instagram makes her look like a crazy party girl super into "drugs and vaping" either....she posts pictures of her friends, animals, and food. I went back to 2014 and I see nothing about drugs, psychedelics or weed, or vaping at all.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Why didn’t he just walk to get help?
If it were that easy nobody would ever stay lost and die outdoors.

And if I were lost with someone and they wanted to leave me to go get help, I'd flip out. No freaking way!! Stick together!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

The fact that they covered their legs with their shorts to protect them from the sun would indicate that they died in the daytime - at night they would probably have pulled the shorts back up. imo

Possibly...but if it got chilly at night maybe they were using the clothes as a blanket of sorts?

 

[Hippononymous]

Possibly...but if it got chilly at night maybe they were using the clothes as a blanket of sorts?

This is what I think. And I also think this is why they were embracing.


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[Hippononymous]

Nothing on her instagram makes her look like a crazy party girl super into "drugs and vaping" either....she posts pictures of her friends, animals, and food. I went back to 2014 and I see nothing about drugs, psychedelics or weed, or vaping at all.

Agree. Is there more than one Instagram for her??


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[Mominmi]

Have they said how have they determined that Rachel did not shoot herself first and then Joseph shoot himself? Meaning suicide-suicide vs suicide-murder. I can picture that more easily. Imagine perhaps hearing the rescuers nearby, perhaps over a period of time, while you grow more and more dehydrated, disoriented, scared and they continue to pass you by? Rachael could have taken the gun and shot herself. Joeseph might have gathered her up in shock, sadness and then shot himself. Or maybe they agreed to end their lives. I just can see so many easier, less troublesome opportunities for him if he wanted to kill her.

 

[JLD333]

Agree. Is there more than one Instagram for her??


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The 3rd pic on her Instagram she appears to be vaping or smoking.


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[JLD333]

What evidence do we have that Joseph was hung up on Rachel to the point he would've committed a murder/suicide? That's pretty rare for someone that age that has no history of being abusive(that we are aware of). How do we know that Rachel wasn't the one that suggested the trip? Maybe she knew he had access to psychedelics that she wanted to try.

Why would Joseph take her 2+ miles off the trail just to kill her and then himself? It's not like he would be worried about getting caught.

At 2+ miles off the trail, even if he had shot the gun in the air to alert rescuers, there's a good chance they wouldn't have heard it. If they did hear it, it's very likely they wouldn't have been able to pinpoint the location. We don't even know yet if they may have tried to alert searchers with the gun.

At their ages, rarely are guys looking to settle down with a girl regardless of how pretty or cool she might be. MOST guys are looking to have fun which is what all the evidence suggests their relationship was about.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm not buying the planned murder/suicide/unrequited love theory.


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[Force Ten]

This link was already posted but I think most missed it. I feel it pretty much sums it all up. No hidden bs.


http://www.kmir.com/story/36648617/...on-killed-friend-and-himself-to-end-suffering

Joshua Tree National Park -
The San Bernardino Sheriff's Department told Joseph Orbeso's parents Gilbert and Corina Mallari, their son shot his friend Rachel Nguyen and then killed himself. The couple had been missing since July after going for a hike in Joshua Tree.

They say they were shocked at the lack of context in the release because it made it look like the killing was premeditated. They say the sheriff's department told them their son did it to put an end to their suffering and are upset the press release didn't reflect that. They want people to know it wasn't murder it was an act of mercy.

<modsnip>

 

[KaaBoom]

You guys really should be careful not to glorify a murderer as some kind of mercy-killing savior. How many 20 year olds do you know that would bring a handgun on a hike? Barely 20% of people in California even own a gun, it's one of the states with the lowest percentage of gun owners. And even then most gun owners are over the age of 50. Do you really think a fit 20 year old boy would mercy kill her rather than go try to find help?Why would he bring a gun and not better survival gear? Reading online tons of people saying it's very uncommon to see individuals carrying handguns in Joshua Tree. They were in a turbulent relationship. Come on.

California is not one of the states with the lowest percentage of gun owners. Gun Ownership in New York is 10% and many other states are as low as 5%. It has been reported that he took the gun to protect her from a man who had been stalking her.

Gun Ownership by State 2015-7

Yes, I think the evidence shows that this was a mercy killing. I might change my mind when the investigation is complete. But at this time that is what the evidence shows.

 

[JLD333]

Totally agree with Force Ten that the press release says it all.

Thinking about how much suffering they had already endured and the hopelessness they must have felt that led Joseph to make the decision he did, is so unbelievably sad. I personally am grateful he had a gun in order to put an end to their suffering. I don't say that lightly, but it is highly doubtful they would've been found alive and I'm sure slow death by dehydration is an absolutely horrific way to die.


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