Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

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I know nothing about hiking in JTNP or anywhere in the desert for that matter. All I know is you need a hat for some head protection from the sun, decent footwear and a ton of water to keep hydrated. I don't have a gun, so it wouldn't occur to me to take one, but I can see that many would -- protection against wildlife and such like. My question is this: if you realize you're lost in a national park - even in the desert during the hottest part of the summer - wouldn't it occur to you that someone might start searching for you reasonably quickly (say, within a day or so of when anyone might expect you to show up, like when you were supposed to check out of the B&B you've been staying in)? And if you just happen to be carrying a gun with you, wouldn't it further occur to you that if you fired your gun, someone searching for might hear it and tell someone about it. As I said, I don't own a gun and I know absolutely nada about them (and I'm not wanting to start any pro-gun / anti-gun arguments). Does anyone know how far the sound of gun fire would carry out there? I realize it will depend on the caliber of the gun and ammo, but do we have any idea what type of weapon Joseph may have had in connection with his job? It just seems to me that since no one reported hearing any gun fire that perhaps that gives some indication of when the fatal shots were fired -- either very, very early in the morning or maybe very late at night. How soon after they entered the park did the searches begin, and were the initial searches conducted on consecutive days? Did anyone stayed camped out there during the night, or is that not allowed (or safe)? Maybe everything hinges on the amount of water they had, but surely they both knew they needed at least a bottle or two each for a day's hike. I don't know, but I just get the feeling this was deliberate for whatever reason.
 
Whiskers16 said:
But the fact they were romantic partners at one time is not a motive. Motives between romantic partners could be money, jealousy, etc. So what would you suggest is the motive in this case?
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RBBM

Yes, money, jealousy, etc., can be motives between romantic partners. I think they just wanted to take a hike that day to celebrate Rachel's birthday, and they wanted to explore a bit. They then got lost and disoriented in the extreme heat. They may have been hiking in circles for days. Apparently they were rationing food and water. When they were too weak to find their way out, they may have decided to end their lives. A quick gunshot may have been preferable to a slower death by dehydration and possible animal attack.

JMVHO.

As to gunshots, and hearing them, I'm thinking sound ricochets off boulders, and gets distorted as it carries. I was raised in a state where hunting occurred every fall, and heard sounds like gunfire, but I was never sure, unless I was standing right next to someone shooting a gun.
 
bluesneakers said:
No, it happens a lot. Especially if they are in the same social circle or have friends in common.
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Going by their facebook profiles, they had few if any friends in common, they didn't really share social circles at all. That said, I don't think it was a turblent relationship, it felt more like they were low-key, friends with benefits than in a steady relationship with each other. Wouldn't be surprised if Rachel's parents had no idea of him or didn't approve of him if they knew.
 
luckyseven said:
They were dating/broken up/now "friends" -- is that not turbulent, especially for young college kids?

I would think your average 20 year old dude would have the sense of mind to walk away and attempt to get help before reaching the point of delirium. Makes absolutely no sense to isolate themselves and hunker down while waiting for dehydration to set in, especially when there are TWO PEOPLE with NO INJURIES involved.
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You must be joking? What is "turbulent" about staying friends with an ex? I've done it and there was nothing turbulent about it. In fact I found it a much more natural and relaxed way to part when romance didn't work out. jmo
 
I’m having a hard time seeing it as a mercy/suicide and I’m the optimist type. Too many things just don’t add up. It will be interesting to see the autopsy report. I am
A backpacker. A day hike I wouldn’t bring a gun on trail at least at that park. Overnight packing I would.
Whatever the outcome my thoughts and prayers to the families. Sigh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
lookit said:
I know nothing about hiking in JTNP or anywhere in the desert for that matter. All I know is you need a hat for some head protection from the sun, decent footwear and a ton of water to keep hydrated. I don't have a gun, so it wouldn't occur to me to take one, but I can see that many would -- protection against wildlife and such like. My question is this: if you realize you're lost in a national park - even in the desert during the hottest part of the summer - wouldn't it occur to you that someone might start searching for you reasonably quickly (say, within a day or so of when anyone might expect you to show up, like when you were supposed to check out of the B&B you've been staying in)? And if you just happen to be carrying a gun with you, wouldn't it further occur to you that if you fired your gun, someone searching for might hear it and tell someone about it. As I said, I don't own a gun and I know absolutely nada about them (and I'm not wanting to start any pro-gun / anti-gun arguments). Does anyone know how far the sound of gun fire would carry out there? I realize it will depend on the caliber of the gun and ammo, but do we have any idea what type of weapon Joseph may have had in connection with his job? It just seems to me that since no one reported hearing any gun fire that perhaps that gives some indication of when the fatal shots were fired -- either very, very early in the morning or maybe very late at night. How soon after they entered the park did the searches begin, and were the initial searches conducted on consecutive days? Did anyone stayed camped out there during the night, or is that not allowed (or safe)? Maybe everything hinges on the amount of water they had, but surely they both knew they needed at least a bottle or two each for a day's hike. I don't know, but I just get the feeling this was deliberate for whatever reason.
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bbm This is a good point you are making and I don't know the answer to how far the sound of a gun would carry in this environment. Maybe someone else does.

The search for the two started a day after they headed out, when the owner of the B&B noticed that they had not returned to their room. And yes I believe the searches continued every day without break for a week or more iirc.
 
thekarmabus said:
I’m having a hard time seeing it as a mercy/suicide and I’m the optimist type. Too many things just don’t add up. It will be interesting to see the autopsy report. I am
A backpacker. A day hike I wouldn’t bring a gun on trail at least at that park. Overnight packing I would.
Whatever the outcome my thoughts and prayers to the families. Sigh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I understand completely where you are coming from. You always make the most compassionate and upbeat posts.
 
Information posted as fact must be backed up with an MSM or LE link; otherwise Websleuths rules consider it rumor and rumor posts get removed and are not discussed here.

If you know a major case player and wish to provide information without having to back it up with links to MSM as members are required to do, you may apply to be a Verified Insider. Information on that process is found here.
 
luckyseven said:
They were dating/broken up/now "friends" -- is that not turbulent, especially for young college kids?

I would think your average 20 year old dude would have the sense of mind to walk away and attempt to get help before reaching the point of delirium. Makes absolutely no sense to isolate themselves and hunker down while waiting for dehydration to set in, especially when there are TWO PEOPLE with NO INJURIES involved.
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Who is to say he, or they, didn't have the sense of mind to walk away to find help? That what they no doubt did ! They were lost and they were weakening. Have you ever been in a remote desert area in 115 degree heat, disoriented and no one around? No way to communicate? Who is to say they weren't already at a point of no return when they hunkered down under some brush?
 
sillybilly said:
Information posted as fact must be backed up with an MSM or LE link; otherwise Websleuths rules consider it rumor and rumor posts get removed and are not discussed here.

If you know a major case player and wish to provide information without having to back it up with links to MSM as members are required to do, you may apply to be a Verified Insider. Information on that process is found here.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I sent email to become a verified insider.
 
It upsets me that so many people are jumping on the scorned lover/murderer bandwagon when all of the evidence points to mercy kill/suicide. I mean, come on. I’m roughly the same age as Rachel and have remained friends with several exes and guys who have wanted to be more than friends, and guess what? They didn’t take me out to the desert to murder me. I’m all into exploring different theories, but him being a murderer who premeditated the whole thing is a stretch. It is very logical that they got lost and couldn't survive the elements with the provisions they had on them.


- They were in the desert in the middle of summer, with extreme heat. No one could survive long in those conditions.


- They were in an area where it is, more or less, easy to get lost in. They unknowingly or knowingly wandered off trail and never were able to pick it up again. People have gotten lost and expired in this park before. It's not unheard of.


- From the evidence surrounding their bodies, it appeared they were rationing food and they were out of water. This proves to me that they were lost for some time or at least knew they were in trouble. This doesn’t go along with any premeditated murder theory at all.


- The gun was registered to Joseph. I don’t think it’s that strange that he would bring his gun along. His AirBNB profile said he was an armed security officer, so he likely was used to carrying a gun. Rachel’s instagram profile shows that she, too, was familiar with using a gun. If I had a gun, I certainly would bring it with me hiking, especially to a place with a landscape I may be unfamiliar with. Regardless of if animal attacks are a real threat or not, Joseph & Rachel could easily have PERCEIVED them as one.


- For those who think Joseph should have walked off to get help…absolutely no one knows what condition he was in at the time. Maybe he didn’t have any water. Maybe he was already too weak or disoriented. Maybe Rachel begged him to stay with her. No one knows.


Hopefully, more information will be obtained or released so we will know the full story better. In the meantime, I think it’s horrible to label Joseph as a scorned murderer because there’s not much evidence at all to back that up.
 
2ysub2ysur said:
It upsets me that so many people are jumping on the scorned lover/murderer bandwagon when all of the evidence points to mercy kill/suicide. I mean, come on. I’m roughly the same age as Rachel and have remained friends with several exes and guys who have wanted to be more than friends, and guess what? They didn’t take me out to the desert to murder me. I’m all into exploring different theories, but him being a murderer who premeditated the whole thing is a stretch. It is very logical that they got lost and couldn't survive the elements with the provisions they had on them.


- They were in the desert in the middle of summer, with extreme heat. No one could survive long in those conditions.


- They were in an area where it is, more or less, easy to get lost in. They unknowingly or knowingly wandered off trail and never were able to pick it up again. People have gotten lost and expired in this park before. It's not unheard of.


- From the evidence surrounding their bodies, it appeared they were rationing food and they were out of water. This proves to me that they were lost for some time or at least knew they were in trouble. This doesn’t go along with any premeditated murder theory at all.


- The gun was registered to Joseph. I don’t think it’s that strange that he would bring his gun along. His AirBNB profile said he was an armed security officer, so he likely was used to carrying a gun. Rachel’s instagram profile shows that she, too, was familiar with using a gun. If I had a gun, I certainly would bring it with me hiking, especially to a place with a landscape I may be unfamiliar with. Regardless of if animal attacks are a real threat or not, Joseph & Rachel could easily have PERCEIVED them as one.


- For those who think Joseph should have walked off to get help…absolutely no one knows what condition he was in at the time. Maybe he didn’t have any water. Maybe he was already too weak or disoriented. Maybe Rachel begged him to stay with her. No one knows.


Hopefully, more information will be obtained or released so we will know the full story better. In the meantime, I think it’s horrible to label Joseph as a scorned murderer because there’s not much evidence at all to back that up.
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This^^^^
 
whitelilac said:
What would be the motive to kill himself?

He could just as easily have killed her, left her hidden in some crevasse and taken off pretending they had become separated and he couldn't find her.
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With a bullet in her? That would be kinda hard to explain if he were to say they got separated and he doesn't know what happened to her.
 
How do we know he shot her? Maybe she shot herself, and then he did the same. Suicide/suicide.
 
2ysub2ysur said:
It upsets me that so many people are jumping on the scorned lover/murderer bandwagon when all of the evidence points to mercy kill/suicide. I mean, come on. I’m roughly the same age as Rachel and have remained friends with several exes and guys who have wanted to be more than friends, and guess what? They didn’t take me out to the desert to murder me. I’m all into exploring different theories, but him being a murderer who premeditated the whole thing is a stretch. It is very logical that they got lost and couldn't survive the elements with the provisions they had on them.


- They were in the desert in the middle of summer, with extreme heat. No one could survive long in those conditions.


- They were in an area where it is, more or less, easy to get lost in. They unknowingly or knowingly wandered off trail and never were able to pick it up again. People have gotten lost and expired in this park before. It's not unheard of.


- From the evidence surrounding their bodies, it appeared they were rationing food and they were out of water. This proves to me that they were lost for some time or at least knew they were in trouble. This doesn’t go along with any premeditated murder theory at all.


- The gun was registered to Joseph. I don’t think it’s that strange that he would bring his gun along. His AirBNB profile said he was an armed security officer, so he likely was used to carrying a gun. Rachel’s instagram profile shows that she, too, was familiar with using a gun. If I had a gun, I certainly would bring it with me hiking, especially to a place with a landscape I may be unfamiliar with. Regardless of if animal attacks are a real threat or not, Joseph & Rachel could easily have PERCEIVED them as one.


- For those who think Joseph should have walked off to get help…absolutely no one knows what condition he was in at the time. Maybe he didn’t have any water. Maybe he was already too weak or disoriented. Maybe Rachel begged him to stay with her. No one knows.


Hopefully, more information will be obtained or released so we will know the full story better. In the meantime, I think it’s horrible to label Joseph as a scorned murderer because there’s not much evidence at all to back that up.
Click to expand...

Guilty. Well, partially. I suggested that maybe Joseph could have had malicious intentions, but it's based (or was) on what we knew. I don't feel that way now. It was only speculation on the possibilities.
 
Why didn’t he just walk to get help?
If it were that easy nobody would ever stay lost and die outdoors.
 
Seajay said:
With a bullet in her? That would be kinda hard to explain if he were to say they got separated and he doesn't know what happened to her.
Click to expand...

If he planned to kill her, I doubt he would hide her in a place where she would easily be found. If he were that devious to lure her on a hike, he's be devious enough to make sure he would indicate a false area where they were last together. JTNP is huge, and there are many offroad remote areas full of abandoned mines.

So no I don't believe he planned to kill her, don't believe he planned to kill himself, and see no motive for killing Rachel nor himself. I see this as a monumental tragedy where they were helpless and took their own lives to end their suffering in the face of complete hopelessness.

My heart go out to their families.
 
2ysub2ysur said:
Hey guys, first time posting here. Nixle just posted an update...

"The bodies of Rachel Nguyen and Joseph Orbeso were found under a tree. They had positioned their clothing to cover their lower extremities and protect them from the sun. It appears they had been rationing their food and had no water.

The gun found near the bodies was registered to Joseph Orbeso"

- Source: https://local.nixle.com/alert/6218037/?sub_id=2879410
Click to expand...

this article has new information about the positioning of the clothing
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...der-suicide-sheriffs-officials-say/784757001/
 
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