Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

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"They had positioned their clothing to cover their lower extremities and protect them from the sun"

This statement really proves (to me) they were trying to survive, and at some point they gave up. I imagine they saw or heard the airplanes flying around, then the planes stopped. And I imagine at some point they realized no one was coming and they were suffering. It's just a really really sad outcome for two people who made a mistake that day. So sad.

 
Wow wow wow.

The update posted above by 2ysub2ysur makes me think the shooting was to put them out of their misery.

I know they didn’t have service, but were their phones dead? It seems that ESPECIALLY if it were a mercy murder/suicide he would have tried to leave a note on one of their devices to explain.
 
More and more I feel like this was to end the misery. It’s so awful but imagine watching someone you love dying in heat and conditions like they must have been in? It’s sad because I’m a way they gave up on rescue however reality is that had they waited, they wouldn’t have survived anyway.

I agree. I also think this was mercy/suicide.
 
Wow wow wow.

The update posted above by 2ysub2ysur makes me think the shooting was to put them out of their misery.

I know they didn’t have service, but were their phones dead? It seems that ESPECIALLY if it were a mercy murder/suicide he would have tried to leave a note on one of their devices to explain.

Phone batteries drain faster in extreme heat. I bet they were trying to catch signal too and when phones search for signal it also drains quickly. I doubt they had power for more than a day at best.
 
it truly is and for some reason I am having such a hard time wrapping my head around it :(
 
Dying from dehydration is not pleasant. Maybe this is what Rachel and Joseph were trying to escape by ending it with the gun:

As a person dies from dehydration, his or her mouth dries out and becomes caked or coated with thick material; lips become parched and cracked; the tongue swells and could crack; eyes recede back into their orbits; cheeks become hollow; lining of the nose might crack and cause the nose to bleed; skin begins to hang loose on the body and becomes dry and scaly; urine would become highly concentrated, leading to burning of the bladder; lining of the stomach dries out, likely causing the person to experience dry heaves and vomiting; body temperature can become very high; brain cells dry out, causing convulsions; respiratory tract also dries out causing thick secretions that could plug the lungs and cause death. At some point the person’s major organs, including the lungs, heart, and brain give out and death occurs.

Taken from here: http://reducing-suffering.org/how-painful-is-death-from-starvation-or-dehydration/
 
You guys really should be careful not to glorify a murderer as some kind of mercy-killing savior. How many 20 year olds do you know that would bring a handgun on a hike? Barely 20% of people in California even own a gun, it's one of the states with the lowest percentage of gun owners. And even then most gun owners are over the age of 50. Do you really think a fit 20 year old boy would mercy kill her rather than go try to find help? Why would he bring a gun and not better survival gear? Reading online tons of people saying it's very uncommon to see individuals carrying handguns in Joshua Tree. They were in a turbulent relationship. Come on.
 
You guys really should be careful not to glorify a murderer as some kind of mercy-killing savior. How many 20 year olds do you know that would bring a handgun on a hike? Barely 20% of people in California even own a gun, it's one of the states with the lowest percentage of gun owners. And even then most gun owners are over the age of 50. Do you really think a fit 20 year old boy would mercy kill her rather than go try to find help? Why would he bring a gun and not better survival gear? Reading online tons of people saying it's very uncommon to see individuals carrying handguns in Joshua Tree. They were in a turbulent relationship. Come on.

BBM. Yes, I do. They both may have been on the verge of expiring and unable to walk. It seems that with every new report, there is a little more to support this was a mercy killing..

There was nothing to indicate they were in a turbulent relationship.
 
I don't know if the reason a gun was involved in the deaths of these two will be established with absolute certainty, but I suggest to you that this was premeditated murder rather than anything remotely to do with mercy.

It is true that the Maze Loop at Joshua Tree wouldn't be anyone's first choice to hike in the summer, given the intensity of the heat (which in my mind is suspicious, frankly), but let us assume that you are determined to experience the desert in one of the hottest periods of the year and head out on the loop trail anyway.

The Maze Loop Trail is not one of the most obscure trails in Joshua Tree by a long shot. The trailhead is on a paved road, and there is a small parking area there. Despite many suggestions that these two could have gotten lost on the trail because they mistook a wash for the trail, or some other farfetched theory, the fact is that this trail is used by hundreds (if not a few thousand) of people without mishap every year. High level hiking skills are not necessary to follow this loop trail that is not all that far from civilization. You simply show up with proper attire, appropriate footwear, and lots of water. And then, you walk a reasonably well marked, highly used trail that is accessible from a paved road that cars travel down with regularity. A prudent hiker would stay close to the trail which ends where it starts, or you could turn around at any time to get back to where you started.

It is no surprise that these two were found in an area that the trail would not even be close to leading to. Sure, maybe they were on drugs in 110 degree heat and just decided to wander off-trail into a untraveled, rocky, desolate canyon where they could not only get lost, but maybe also hurt themselves scrambling over some loose rocks in the process. Do you really think this is that likely (although not impossible)? Do these two fit the profile of devil-may-care (or experienced) off-trail hikers that love straying from a well-beaten path?

The relationship between these two is ill-defined, except that they were no longer dating, but were now "friends" that wanted to hike in conditions that even experienced desert hikers wouldn't be hellbent on doing that time of year?

I also have to add that, IMO, there is no reason that anyone *needs* to have a gun hiking in JTNP. There is no need to conjure up scenarios of mountain lions or coyotes (or desert tortoises) attacking people there. The likelihood of an animal attack is so remote as to not even be worth mentioning. You would be much more likely to encounter a two-legged creature that would threaten your life, but if that occurred with any measurable frequency, no one would want to hike there. JTNP is far safer than any major American city in that respect, period.

I think JO planned this out from the beginning. He isolated RN out on a trail that he knew was underutilized in the summer, forced her to walk up some poorly traveled area well away from the trail, and then shot her to death followed by his own suicide. There really isn't another reasonable explanation that compares to any other.

I think it is a romantic notion that these deaths were somehow merciful. I think it was just plain old evil at work.
 
I don't know if the reason a gun was involved in the deaths of these two will be established with absolute certainty, but I suggest to you that this was premeditated murder rather than anything remotely to do with mercy.

It is true that the Maze Loop at Joshua Tree wouldn't be anyone's first choice to hike in the summer, given the intensity of the heat (which in my mind is suspicious, frankly), but let us assume that you are determined to experience the desert in one of the hottest periods of the year and head out on the loop trail anyway.

The Maze Loop Trail is not one of the most obscure trails in Joshua Tree by a long shot. The trailhead is on a paved road, and there is a small parking area there. Despite many suggestions that these two could have gotten lost on the trail because they mistook a wash for the trail, or some other farfetched theory, the fact is that this trail is used by hundreds (if not a few thousand) of people without mishap every year. High level hiking skills are not necessary to follow this loop trail that is not all that far from civilization. You simply show up with proper attire, appropriate footwear, and lots of water. And then, you walk a reasonably well marked, highly used trail that is accessible from a paved road that cars travel down with regularity. A prudent hiker would stay close to the trail which ends where it starts, or you could turn around at any time to get back to where you started.

It is no surprise that these two were found in an area that the trail would not even be close to leading to. Sure, maybe they were on drugs in 110 degree heat and just decided to wander off-trail into a untraveled, rocky, desolate canyon where they could not only get lost, but maybe also hurt themselves scrambling over some loose rocks in the process. Do you really think this is that likely (although not impossible)? Do these two fit the profile of devil-may-care (or experienced) off-trail hikers that love straying from a well-beaten path?

The relationship between these two is ill-defined, except that they were no longer dating, but were now "friends" that wanted to hike in conditions that even experienced desert hikers wouldn't be hellbent on doing that time of year?

I also have to add that, IMO, there is no reason that anyone *needs* to have a gun hiking in JTNP. There is no need to conjure up scenarios of mountain lions or coyotes (or desert tortoises) attacking people there. The likelihood of an animal attack is so remote as to not even be worth mentioning. You would be much more likely to encounter a two-legged creature that would threaten your life, but if that occurred with any measurable frequency, no one would want to hike there. JTNP is far safer than any major American city in that respect, period.

I think JO planned this out from the beginning. He isolated RN out on a trail that he knew was underutilized in the summer, forced her to walk up some poorly traveled area well away from the trail, and then shot her to death followed by his own suicide. There really isn't another reasonable explanation that compares to any other.

I think it is a romantic notion that these deaths were somehow merciful. I think it was just plain old evil at work.

What was the motive?
 
I don't know if the reason a gun was involved in the deaths of these two will be established with absolute certainty, but I suggest to you that this was premeditated murder rather than anything remotely to do with mercy.

It is true that the Maze Loop at Joshua Tree wouldn't be anyone's first choice to hike in the summer, given the intensity of the heat (which in my mind is suspicious, frankly), but let us assume that you are determined to experience the desert in one of the hottest periods of the year and head out on the loop trail anyway.

The Maze Loop Trail is not one of the most obscure trails in Joshua Tree by a long shot. The trailhead is on a paved road, and there is a small parking area there. Despite many suggestions that these two could have gotten lost on the trail because they mistook a wash for the trail, or some other farfetched theory, the fact is that this trail is used by hundreds (if not a few thousand) of people without mishap every year. High level hiking skills are not necessary to follow this loop trail that is not all that far from civilization. You simply show up with proper attire, appropriate footwear, and lots of water. And then, you walk a reasonably well marked, highly used trail that is accessible from a paved road that cars travel down with regularity. A prudent hiker would stay close to the trail which ends where it starts, or you could turn around at any time to get back to where you started.

It is no surprise that these two were found in an area that the trail would not even be close to leading to. Sure, maybe they were on drugs in 110 degree heat and just decided to wander off-trail into a untraveled, rocky, desolate canyon where they could not only get lost, but maybe also hurt themselves scrambling over some loose rocks in the process. Do you really think this is that likely (although not impossible)? Do these two fit the profile of devil-may-care (or experienced) off-trail hikers that love straying from a well-beaten path?

The relationship between these two is ill-defined, except that they were no longer dating, but were now "friends" that wanted to hike in conditions that even experienced desert hikers wouldn't be hellbent on doing that time of year?

I also have to add that, IMO, there is no reason that anyone *needs* to have a gun hiking in JTNP. There is no need to conjure up scenarios of mountain lions or coyotes (or desert tortoises) attacking people there. The likelihood of an animal attack is so remote as to not even be worth mentioning. You would be much more likely to encounter a two-legged creature that would threaten your life, but if that occurred with any measurable frequency, no one would want to hike there. JTNP is far safer than any major American city in that respect, period.

I think JO planned this out from the beginning. He isolated RN out on a trail that he knew was underutilized in the summer, forced her to walk up some poorly traveled area well away from the trail, and then shot her to death followed by his own suicide. There really isn't another reasonable explanation that compares to any other.

I think it is a romantic notion that these deaths were somehow merciful. I think it was just plain old evil at work.

IMO, the jury is still out on this. The report of them being found beneath some sort of tree with their lower extremities being covered does not point to a murder/suicide. I mean, who cares about getting sunburn if you're going to kill yourself?

I know many people that hike out there and other places who will pack a gun purely for defense against said animals. I have also seen traces of mountain lions out there and a fresh kill. It is rare for one to attack a human, but it does happen.
 
They were dating/broken up/now "friends" -- is that not turbulent, especially for young college kids?

I would think your average 20 year old dude would have the sense of mind to walk away and attempt to get help before reaching the point of delirium. Makes absolutely no sense to isolate themselves and hunker down while waiting for dehydration to set in, especially when there are TWO PEOPLE with NO INJURIES involved.
 
Motive???? Over 50% of murdered women are killed by romantic partners. You're on websleuths.com, you know this.
 
They were dating/broken up/now "friends" -- is that not turbulent, especially for young college kids?

I would think your average 20 year old dude would have the sense of mind to walk away and attempt to get help before reaching the point of delirium. Makes absolutely no sense to isolate themselves and hunker down while waiting for dehydration to set in, especially when there are TWO PEOPLE with NO INJURIES involved.

Well we don't know what condition Orbeso was in when he made his fateful decision. We also don't know how long they were alive and maybe wandering around for several days. Delirium would quickly take over out there as well. I picture them hopelessly lost and unable to get their bearings.
 
What was the motive?

What would be the motive to kill himself?

He could just as easily have killed her, left her hidden in some crevasse and taken off pretending they had become separated and he couldn't find her.
 
They were dating/broken up/now "friends" -- is that not turbulent, especially for young college kids?

I would think your average 20 year old dude would have the sense of mind to walk away and attempt to get help before reaching the point of delirium. Makes absolutely no sense to isolate themselves and hunker down while waiting for dehydration to set in, especially when there are TWO PEOPLE with NO INJURIES involved.

No, it happens a lot. Especially if they are in the same social circle or have friends in common.
 
Motive???? Over 50% of murdered women are killed by romantic partners. You're on websleuths.com, you know this.
But the fact they were romantic partners at one time is not a motive. Motives between romantic partners could be money, jealousy, etc. So what would you suggest is the motive in this case?
 
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