Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #2

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Seajay said:
We have nothing yet on an autopsy report? Whether they were dehydrated or not, whether she indeed had a head injury? We know she died of a GSW, but I'd like to know what else they found to give an indication as to why.
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I doubt that an autopsy report would be conclusive, on bodies that had been in the desert that long. I'm not sure if it will even be made public. Generally I think autopsy reports are not made public. I could be wrong but I wouldn't expect anyone to release more information then has already been released.

Autopsies found both had gunshot wounds and evidence at the scene led detectives to believe Orbeso shot Nguyen and then himself, the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department said in a statement Friday. The stunning announcement came days after Orbeso’s father, who was with searchers who made the discovery, said the bodies were locked in an embrace.

The Orange County Register reports there was evidence the pair had been battling the elements. The bodies were under a tree, with clothing covering their legs to protect them from the blazing sun. They appeared to have been rationing food and had no water.

Nguyen’s family said investigators told them that based on the circumstances and positioning of the bodies, they believed the two died in a “sympathetic murder-suicide.”
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Joshua Tree hikers may have died in ‘sympathetic murder-suicide’ - NY Daily News
 
An autopsy released Tuesday doesn’t answer the mystery behind a murder-suicide at Joshua Tree last year, but it does provide some hints about how the young couple’s trip unfolded.
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The toxicology test did not reveal any drugs in Orbeso’s system at the time of death. A separate test on Nguyen found trace elements of cannabis in her system ... a drug she had a medical license to consume.
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In addition, a.40-caliber Magnum revolver containing three spent cartridge casings in the cylinder and three empty chambers was found buried in the sand next to Orbeso’s left leg.

While Orbeso and Nguyen each died from a single gunshot to the head, it hasn’t been determined if the third shot might have been fired to gain the attention of searchers, Miller said.
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It also states that the report does nothing to confirm or deny the family's feelings in was a mercy event.

https://www.pe.com/2018/03/06/autopsy-offers-few-clues-in-murder-suicide-of-couple-in-joshua-tree/




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AffirmationChick said:
It also states that the report does nothing to confirm or deny the family's feelings in was a mercy event.

https://www.pe.com/2018/03/06/autopsy-offers-few-clues-in-murder-suicide-of-couple-in-joshua-tree/




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To me this provides plenty of clues. For example, had he had drugs in his system, I would have thought that would be more likely to have him caused trouble finding his car parked just 2 miles away. This to me this is clearly murder-suicide. If the report would have showed signs of dehydration, I would feel otherwise, but since it does not and with the lack of drugs in either of their systems to cause hysteria and a lack of hope (despite the car being close)...the answer is clear IMO. Poor girl.

Edit to add...and IMO the extra shot was probably just a shot to scare her (likely to see her reaction because some sick individuals find joy in that kind of thing). Had it really have been a warning shot I think he would have taken at least two more.
 
Detectivediva said:
To me this provides plenty of clues. For example, had he had drugs in his system, I would have thought that would be more likely to have him caused trouble finding his car parked just 2 miles away. This to me this is clearly murder-suicide. If the report would have showed signs of dehydration, I would feel otherwise, but since it does not and with the lack of drugs in either of their systems to cause hysteria and a lack of hope (despite the car being close)...the answer is clear IMO. Poor girl.

Edit to add...and IMO the extra shot was probably just a shot to scare her (likely to see her reaction because some sick individuals find joy in that kind of thing). Had it really have been a warning shot I think he would have taken at least two more.
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Very good points... I’m disappointed the autopsy or article did not indicate whether there was evidence of dehydration or malnutrition or other signs that could have caused Orbeso to carry out this act. It really answers nothing, unless I missed something. I am very confused. Thought/ hoped it was a mercy killing but does not appear so.


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Detectivediva said:
To me this provides plenty of clues. For example, had he had drugs in his system, I would have thought that would be more likely to have him caused trouble finding his car parked just 2 miles away. This to me this is clearly murder-suicide. If the report would have showed signs of dehydration, I would feel otherwise, but since it does not and with the lack of drugs in either of their systems to cause hysteria and a lack of hope (despite the car being close)...the answer is clear IMO. Poor girl.

Edit to add...and IMO the extra shot was probably just a shot to scare her (likely to see her reaction because some sick individuals find joy in that kind of thing). Had it really have been a warning shot I think he would have taken at least two more.
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That is not a belief shared by the families or by the investigators.

Friends and Orbeso family members have said they believe the murder-suicide was a result of desperation, not anger, and that the shooting happened only after the couple became lost in the sprawling park and ran out of food and water.

The autopsy offers nothing to support or contradict that belief.
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Gone Girl said:
Very good points... I’m disappointed the autopsy or article did not indicate whether there was evidence of dehydration or malnutrition or other signs that could have caused Orbeso to carry out this act. It really answers nothing, unless I missed something. I am very confused. Thought/ hoped it was a mercy killing but does not appear so.
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“Since we don’t have any evidence to tell us why the shooting occurred, we are left to speculate,” Jodi Miller, spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department, wrote in a prepared statement.

“Knowing that they rationed food, had no water, and were seeking shade certainly sheds light on the apparent dire circumstances.”
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Do you really need the article to state the obvious? Since they had no water and were seeking shade, it would be reasonable to conclude that they were dehydrated.
 
KaaBoom said:
Do you really need the article to state the obvious? Since they had no water and were seeking shade, it would be reasonable to conclude that they were dehydrated.
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People seek shade for picnics too. They could have easily consumed the water/food within the first couple hours. There is nothing that specifies TOD...I bet it was right away. I'm glad the family takes solace in that story. Logically, it doesn't make sense to me. Two sober people two miles away from their car do not shoot one another in an act of mercy.
 
Detectivediva said:
People seek shade for picnics too. They could have easily consumed the water/food within the first couple hours. There is nothing that specifies TOD...I bet it was right away. I'm glad the family takes solace in that story. Logically, it doesn't make sense to me. Two sober people two miles away from their car do not shoot one another in an act of mercy.
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The key concept is "lost". If you don't believe it's possible for people to get lost in Joshua Tree National Park, then I think that could be an excellent theory for you to test, in late July. Just make sure you don't tell anyone where you're going, to recreate the exact conditions.
 
Satchie said:
The key concept is "lost". If you don't believe it's possible for people to get lost in Joshua Tree National Park, then I think that could be an excellent theory for you to test, in late July. Just make sure you don't tell anyone where you're going, to recreate the exact conditions.
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I'm local and I have been there in the summer. I do have a good sense of direction though.

Would you not agree that the facts point the obvious way?
1. He brought a gun on a short hike.
2. They used to date and she was no longer interested in that type of relationship.
3. The car was 2 miles away
4. There were 3 more bullets where a warning shot could've been initiated
5. No drugs...completely sober
6. 20 somethings have a great attitude for the most part... Most I know think they are invincible.
7. Autopsy showed other results yet didn't indicate signs of dehydration.
 
Detectivediva said:
People seek shade for picnics too. They could have easily consumed the water/food within the first couple hours. There is nothing that specifies TOD...I bet it was right away. I'm glad the family takes solace in that story. Logically, it doesn't make sense to me. Two sober people two miles away from their car do not shoot one another in an act of mercy.
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Where they were found did not look like a picnic spot to me.
 
Detectivediva said:
I'm local and I have been there in the summer. I do have a good sense of direction though.

Would you not agree that the facts point the obvious way?
1. He brought a gun on a short hike.
2. They used to date and she was no longer interested in that type of relationship.
3. The car was 2 miles away
4. There were 3 more bullets where a warning shot could've been initiated
5. No drugs...completely sober
6. 20 somethings have a great attitude for the most part... Most I know think they are invincible.
7. Autopsy showed other results yet didn't indicate signs of dehydration.
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Respectfully, the families have decided that there was no foul play. LE seems to agree. Both of them have passed and there’s no concrete evidence this was a murder suicide. Since neither are alive, the remaining victims are the families. Who do not believe there was foul play. Let it be. JMO.
 
Detectivediva said:
I'm local and I have been there in the summer. I do have a good sense of direction though.
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Have you ever been there in 106 degree heat, with no water, two miles away from your car? :thinking:
 
Rule of threes (survival)

1. You can survive three minutes of severe bleeding, without breathable air (unconsciousness generally occurs), or in icy water.
2. You can survive three hours in a harsh environment (extreme heat or cold).
3. You can survive three days without drinkable water.
4. You can survive three weeks without edible food.
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Rule of threes (survival) - Wikipedia
 
KaaBoom said:
Have you ever been there in 106 degree heat, with no water, two miles away from your car? :thinking:
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TBH I don't have a spreadsheet that documents DFV (distance from vehicle)/temps during my visits there. I guarantee if I was naive enough to do such a thing that I wouldn't look over at my husband and tell him to mercy kill me...but it wouldn't matter if I did because although my man has a number of firearms...no way he'd take one on a day hike to JT. I guess he could first try to mercy kill me with a rock...maybe bash my head with it and then tie it with his shirt (or something) when it didn't work. Maybe he'd also scout out a the location a couple weeks before with a friend. Maybe he wouldn't pack us much water or food because hell... It's a one-way trip and all. If he did succeed to murder me and then shot himself...my deceased a$$ would be furious if my family didn't seek to know the truth...making up some story just to make themselves feel better. But I'm a person who believes in the truth and in justice for victims...especially innocent ones who are needlessly murdered.

You all are right however...we'll never know conclusively what happened here. That's really a shame. RIP, dear Rachel. We all know in our hearts that you didn't deserve this. Absolutely not.
 
Satchie said:
The key concept is "lost". If you don't believe it's possible for people to get lost in Joshua Tree National Park, then I think that could be an excellent theory for you to test, in late July. Just make sure you don't tell anyone where you're going, to recreate the exact conditions.
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So true, wear boots; many rattlesnakes. So many caves. No water, Bring Your Own. I love to explore Joshua Tree. ��
 
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