CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[justice be served]

Snipped, in case this article disappears:
Jennifer Jasionowski, who was friends with Rebecca for years before her death, said she was mourning her friend when Jonah Shacknai approached her at the funeral and struck-up a conversation.

"When we said we didn't think that she would have committed suicide, Jonah agreed with us and said 'Yeah, I wouldn't think that either. I guess you never know,'" Jasionowski told RadarOnline.com.

PHOTOS: Celebrities Who Died In Bizarre Circumstances

She asked him if Rebecca had shown any signs of depression and claims he told her "no."

Jasionowski told RadarOnline.com that Shacknai then asked her: "Do you know anyone that would want to hurt her?" She said she quickly told him: "No, I don't know anyone that would want to hurt Rebecca."

Jasionowski says she asked Shacknai if he knew of anyone that wanted to hurt him and he replied "no" and he told her they were unsure what had even happened with his 6-year-old son Max, who suffered a terrible accident while under Rebecca's care, and subsequently died just days later.

BBM
I think he was fishing for a sense of what people knew.

 

[Kealia]

justice be served, that's exactly what it sounds like - fishing.

End of article re "proposing." Don't know which news org. first carried this quote from source, but have seen it reiterated elsewhere.

 

[deanna82437]

BBM
I have heard the supposed 'proposing' brought up quite a bit. Does anyone have the link on that statement? Do we know it's true?

I think there were several, but mostly early on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahaus-memorial-service.html

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...anned-propose-girlfriend-dead-bizarre-hanging

Not highly reliable sites, maybe, but who knows anymore.:waitasec:

 

[lauriej]

They didn't try the balcony re-enactment. At first a story appeared LE was going to do a re-enactment and then it was reported they did not because they decided to rely on forensics instead. Considering they have phenomena such as head trauma which she MIGHT have sustained while falling, I am puzzled as to why they haven't actually tried trowing a dummy from a balcony to see what kind of injuries the dummy would sustain.

..if LE is so confident in their theories of how she tied the rope ( all of the rope!------around the bedpost, her wrists, ankles, fashioned the noose ) then they should have re-enacted all of it----and shown us how long all of that took to do??-------as well as shown a balcony re-enactment of her falling over the balcony in the manner they have suggested.

..if they're just going to close the book on this case and think the public doesn't have un-answered questions remaining-----they're quite wrong.

..i also found it interesting that the "woman of rebecca's size" used in the wrist-tying video was also a police officer. it's when LE leaves out these little additional pieces of info for absolutely no reason...that it's easy for me to find them evasive and un-trustworthy.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am trying to read all the posts, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed.

I think LE, in addition to the knotting demonstration, should have done re-enactments like the ones done in the Orellana-Salazar case http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/10/48hours/main540062.shtml. The detectives in this SoCal case, created a firehose dummy, consulted w/ biomechanical engineers and stuntmen, to determine the veracity of Salazar's statement that Orellana accidentally fell from the balcony. A re-enactment in RN's case could have at least told them if the scrapes, abrasions, and 4 scalp hematomas could have been caused by the balcony railing, plants, wall, etc.

Other thoughts:

RN quit her job in Dec. 2010 to spend more time w/ Shacknai family and to care for his children, so she had no income. Assume that JS took care of her financially, as a boyfriend would, if she was living w/ him and had no job. Could relationship have changed in Dec. to where she was more of a nanny, less of a girlfriend?

Sources said that JS "had every intention of proposing to Rebecca." I found this an odd statement to be released to the press. IMO, sounds like something you would say in response to implications that JS was ready to move on.
JMO

Welcome Kealia, great 1st post!

Back in the beginning LE stated they were going to do a reenactment and I believe it was the same day they changed their minds and said they would not do one.

 

[curiousjo]

If this was murder, then it was someone angry with RN regarding MS and wanted her to die the same way - falling over the balcony. They were also angry/sarcastic towards JS, as the "suicide" note asked can you (JS) save her(RN)- knowing he could not, as she was found dead. And they implied that they did not know MS had taken a turn for the worse when they said she (RN) saved him (MS?)... however, this note may have been written that way to hide their true identity and throw LE off, as the murderer may have known MS was not going to make it and that was motive. Finally, the murderer took quite a bit of time to tie her up, collect items found at scene, paint the door note, etc. Obviously knew the mansion and felt confident no one coming over vs staying at mansion. Interesting with WS poster regarding funeral and JS comment to RN friend about whether she knew if anyone wanted to hurt her, yet telling RN sisters this was suicide. So, which is it? If he thought RN was murdered, then I would expect him to feel afraid for himself and children as suicide note was a threat vs fake note to make it look like a threat from a murderer vs a sarcastic suicide note.

Of course, we still don't know what really happened, and it still may be suicide.

 

[jjenny]

..if LE is so confident in their theories of how she tied the rope ( all of the rope!------around the bedpost, her wrists, ankles, fashioned the noose ) then they should have re-enacted all of it----and shown us how long all of that took to do??-------as well as shown a balcony re-enactment of her falling over the balcony in the manner they have suggested.

..if they're just going to close the book on this case and think the public doesn't have un-answered questions remaining-----they're quite wrong.

..i also found it interesting that the "woman of rebecca's size" used in the wrist-tying video was also a police officer. it's when LE leaves out these little additional pieces of info for absolutely no reason...that it's easy for me to find them evasive and un-trustworthy.

ITA. Just because somebody can do something doesn't mean everybody can do it. For instance a circus acrobat will be able to do moves on a trapeze up at the ceiling. But don't ask me to do it. LE has never stated that they have a reason to believe that RN specifically has experience with the type of knots used. The rope expert on Dr. Drew did not think these knots would be something people are just going to come up with naturally. So did she have any experience with these types of knots or not? Apparently LE hasn't bothered to find out, or if they did find anything out (either way) they have not bothered to inform the public.

 

[Kealia]

Has this article about naked suicide already been posted? http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240.

Still cannot see it as a suicide.

 

[ehough22]

ITA. Just because somebody can do something doesn't mean everybody can do it. For instance a circus acrobat will be able to do moves on a trapeze up at the ceiling. But don't ask me to do it. LE has never stated that they have a reason to believe that RN specifically has experience with the type of knots used. The rope expert on Dr. Drew did not think these knots would be something people are just going to come up with naturally. So did she have any experience with these types of knots or not? Apparently LE hasn't bothered to find out, or if they did find anything out (either way) they have not bothered to inform the public.

Right. I am left with little doubt that it is physically possible that a person (ahem, a police officer or someone familiar with boats) could tie these knots on themselves. I am left with a whole lotta doubt that Rebecca had any idea or experience on how to do so. I can tie my shoes. I have seen these knots. I do not know how to tie these knots nor would it ever occur to me to do so.

 

[MyBelle]

Impossible to re-enact it? Please. They could get a dummy of similar size with sensors (bind its hands and feet) and then position it where the foot prints are bend it over and drop it.

It is impossible for LE to know how exactly RN went over the railing. Did she go head first or sideways or what? They have only a theory but it has not been proved because there were no witnesses. Besides, even if they did try to re-enact it, those who view it as a cover-up won't believe it. So why waste taxpayer money to try to prove something that a few people still won't accept?

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Right. I am left with little doubt that it is physically possible that a person (ahem, a police officer or someone familiar with boats) could tie these knots on themselves. I am left with a whole lotta doubt that Rebecca had any idea or experience on how to do so. I can tie my shoes. I have seen these knots. I do not know how to tie these knots nor would it ever occur to me to do so.

I'm of the opinion the knots were purposely tied in the rope for a specific purpose, such as waterskiing or tubing and they were left in the rope.

JMO

 

[tiredblondy]

It is impossible for LE to know how exactly RN went over the railing. Did she go head first or sideways or what? They have only a theory but it has not been proved because there were no witnesses. Besides, even if they did try to re-enact it, those who view it as a cover-up won't believe it. So why waste taxpayer money to try to prove something that a few people still won't accept?

JMO

Uhmmmm because it's their job????

 

[MyBelle]

Uhmmmm because it's their job????

Just because some in the public are not agreeing with their conclusions doesn't mean they didn't do their job.

JMO

 

[lauriej]

It is impossible for LE to know how exactly RN went over the railing. Did she go head first or sideways or what? They have only a theory but it has not been proved because there were no witnesses. Besides, even if they did try to re-enact it, those who view it as a cover-up won't believe it. So why waste taxpayer money to try to prove something that a few people still won't accept?

JMO

..but their 'theory' is what they're going on----what they're using to CLOSE the case.

..so----show us the re-enactment based on that theory---and let's see what injuries she would have sustained.

..i doubt that it would cost a ton of money to re-create a dummy going over a balcony rail.

 

[CocoChanel]

If this was murder, then it was someone angry with RN regarding MS and wanted her to die the same way - falling over the balcony. They were also angry/sarcastic towards JS, as the "suicide" note asked can you (JS) save her(RN)- knowing he could not, as she was found dead. And they implied that they did not know MS had taken a turn for the worse when they said she (RN) saved him (MS?)... however, this note may have been written that way to hide their true identity and throw LE off, as the murderer may have known MS was not going to make it and that was motive........

Of course, we still don't know what really happened, and it still may be suicide.

BBM and snipped respectfully by me.
I also think the first line of that note could be intended sarcastically. We know MS was not 'saved', and perhaps the writer knew that too. I think the entire sentence denotes sarcasm and disgust, which certainly doesn't rule out suicide OR homicide, but it makes me think differently if I read it that way.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Right. I am left with little doubt that it is physically possible that a person (ahem, a police officer or someone familiar with boats) could tie these knots on themselves. I am left with a whole lotta doubt that Rebecca had any idea or experience on how to do so. I can tie my shoes. I have seen these knots. I do not know how to tie these knots nor would it ever occur to me to do so.

I would NEVER think to half the rope and use the loop around my first ankle. NEVER. I would take the end of the rope and tie that around my ankle, then wrap the remainder around and around and figure out a way to tie off the end. Ditto with the wrists. It would never in a million years occur to me to tie those ropes the way Rebecca allegedly did.

 

[sdcali]

I would NEVER think to half the rope and use the loop around my first ankle. NEVER. I would take the end of the rope and tie that around my ankle, then wrap the remainder around and around and figure out a way to tie off the end. Ditto with the wrists. It would never in a million years occur to me to tie those ropes the way Rebecca allegedly did.

Me too, IWK. IMO, the average person would be tying themselves in much more elementary way. I know others have argued that that the bindings are nothing special, but I disagree. I have to say that they are unique to the situation--I doubt that those specific kinds of bindings or anything as elaborate as the ones used on Rebecca are routinely seen in suicides. IMO

 

[SunnieRN]

I'm of the opinion the knots were purposely tied in the rope for a specific purpose, such as waterskiing or tubing and they were left in the rope.

JMO

Shoots LE in the eye with this 'theory', as they could find NO dna other than Rebecca's in the 10 spots they checked. If someone left knots in the rope for those purposes, then put the rope away after, there must be dna present, but noppers, none.:waitasec:

Just one more example of not enough information about the evidence compilation and testing.

 

[CDS22]

Just because some in the public are not agreeing with their conclusions doesn't mean they didn't do their job.

JMO

Did they have 20 detectives on the scene? If so, they can't be accused of not doing their job. I'm going to search to see if I can find how many were on the scene, and from which departments.

 

[CDS22]

Me too, IWK. IMO, the average person would be tying themselves in much more elementary way. I know others have argued that that the bindings are nothing special, but I disagree. I have to say that they are unique to the situation--I doubt that those specific kinds of bindings or anything as elaborate as the ones used on Rebecca are routinely seen in suicides. IMO

Self-bonding can be done. I'm not saying, of course, that it was done in RZ's case, but it isn't impossible. I posted some links with pictures from a breath play link on wiki yesterday. I also posted some comments and a link from Jezebel from people who knew about breath play and said that RZ's type of bondage, including the T-shirt about her neck, reminded them of breath play.

And here is a blurb that explains about self-binding. Again, I'm not saying it was done in RZ's case, but merely pointing out that it is not an impossibility.

Apart from release mechanisms, self-bondage poses a somewhat awkward problem of getting into bondage, especially when using rope. What might be a relatively simple matter for couples can be considerably more complex alone.

With rope, the main difficulty is tying the hands in a way that is not easy to untie. One common solution is to use a cinch noose — essentially a kind of slip knot — together with a coil (a loop of rope). The wrists are placed through the coil with the cinch noose between the wrists and around the coil. To achieve a basic hogtie position, the cinch noose is tied to the ankles. With pressure, the noose tightens the wrist coil, securing the hands. It proves very difficult to escape from, and usually a knife or scissors is required to cut free

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-bondage

(Emboldening mine)