Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #20

[cabinetguy]

What was the phisical/mental condition of the victim when she was released ? Probably pretty bad. I wonder if they are questioning her reliability on some of the facts, This could throw everything off. Many victims need time to truly remember correctly.

 

[yllek]

Part of the evidence is likely the electronics that were collected...my gut tells me this is where the biggest clues are going to be found.

Do you mean aside from surveillance cams, cell phone records, or computer data -- like banking transactions, vlpate?

 

[Mosaic]

I thought about it and could see it fitting if it was meant as a message from a stalker. So as a threat not a so-called "compliment." It could also be an accusation.

Ftr I don't think that's what KP said but it prompted me to consider what if it was?

Unless he was about to describe the shirt she was wearing? Maybe it had the word stenciled on? Just brainstorming.

 

[Rayemonde]

From AceDetective's link:

After pressing him about why there has been no sketches of the suspects, two Hispanic women, Bosenko said that sketches require a lot of detailed information from he victim and that Papini's head was covered most of the time. When her face wasn't covered the faces of her captors were.

Bosenko said that Papini was held captive and traumatized for three weeks, and many victims who go through trauma similar to that often have trouble remembering details. http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/sh...aid-papini-case-still-high-priority/212230817

....I'm really hoping that the evidence being processed by the DOJ points to the people responsible.

Sigh. I was really hoping hoping for a sketch of the eye area and hair, and a description of the clothes they wore, body type, approximate age and height etc...

I am starting to think that the sheriff has heard these details from SP but is choosing not to share them with the public as he thinks it will impede the investigation. In KP's 20/20 interview he gave quite a lot of detailed information about SP's ordeal, and I hoped that meant that her memory was returning. On the other hand, maybe KP is a great storyteller like our VI told us KP's father is, and gave his own interpretation of what happened rather than only repeating exactly what SP told him about her ordeal.

 

[cabinetguy]

My guess is best lead is the " carving ". Could be a gang/prison tat. My guess is they are showing it to every tattoo artist within 100 miles.

 

[vlpate]

Yesterday, I posted some personal speculation about Pg. 2 of the PR from Nov. 13 http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sheriff/daily-logs/11-12-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I'm not debating how well the tip was investigated, it's obvious that many officers responded. I'm just wondering if the report ended up carrying any weight/legitimacy or was possibly even still being examined.

Today, I spent some more time reading PR's pertaining to this case. I stumbled across pg. 3 from this Nov. 3 report (I know many of you have too): http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sheriff/daily-logs/11-03-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Similar to yesterday, I'm not questioning anything to do with the legitimacy or investigative aspects pertaining to this PR.

What I did though, was compare the two police reports. I found a common link in suspect licence plate numbers. Below, you will see three plates which are identical from each case, with two new plate numbers appearing on the 11-13-16 PR. Are we to assume this is an "all incidents" file? Whereas two new plates were added to the 11-13-16 report bringing the total to five suspect plates? OR were the same three plates generated from two different sources? Obviously these plates have been researched by the Investigators. I'm not familiar with licence plate sleuthing known suspected licence plates, but as the police report is public information and these listed licence plates are suspected vehicles, is there anything worthwhile here?

11-4-2016 Police Report Suspect Vehicle(s)
7PUF353 CA 2016 Tan Chevy Suburban
7HIJ606 CA 2016
7W47097 CA 2016

11-13-2016 Police Report Suspect Vehicle(s)
7PUF353 CA 2016 Tan Chevy
7HIJ606 CA 2016
7W47097 CA 2016
6F25880 CA 2016
4GIC261 CA 2016

If you look at the end of page 1 from 11/13 report it appears to be a follow up to the 11/3 report...imo

 

[Mosaic]

My guess is best lead is the " carving ". Could be a gang/prison tat. My guess is they are showing it to every tattoo artist within 100 miles.

Interesting choice of word: carving... Sheriff Bosenko said is a not a symbol; but is a message.

 

[Salsa]

On 17 August 1998, Tracy Lambert and Susan Moore were abducted by prospective Crips ("baby gangsters" or "BGs") in Linden, North Carolina, forced into the trunk of Moore's car, driven to a field outside town, and executed by being shot in the head. Earlier that evening, Debra Cheeseborough had been similarly abducted by the group and forced into the trunk of her car, taken to Smith Lake on Fort Bragg, and shot seven times in the back. Cheeseborough was left for dead but survived to testify against her abductors.

The two gang leaders who ordered the abductions, Francisco Tirado and Eric Devon Queen, were found guilty of all charges against them, including first-degree murder, burglary, kidnapping, robbery with a dangerous weapon, conspiracy, attempted first-degree murder, and assault with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury. Queen told police he shot Lambert in the head while the others watched. Eventually, all nine participants in the murders were charged and convicted.

MODNOTE: Above quote is from: http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/pullover.asp

 

[vlpate]

Do you mean aside from surveillance cams, cell phone records, or computer data -- like banking transactions, vlpate?

No, but those too!. I was thinking information from data on cells, computers, etc.

 

[Mosaic]

[FONT=&amp]On [/FONT]17 August[FONT=&amp] 1998, Tracy Lambert and Susan Moore were abducted by prospective Crips ("baby gangsters" or "BGs") in Linden, North Carolina, forced into the trunk of Moore's car, driven to a field outside town, and executed by being shot in the head. Earlier that evening, Debra Cheeseborough had been similarly abducted by the group and forced into the trunk of her car, taken to Smith Lake on Fort Bragg, and shot seven times in the back. Cheeseborough was left for dead but survived to testify against her abductors. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]The two gang leaders who ordered the abductions, Francisco Tirado and Eric Devon Queen, were found guilty of all charges against them, including first-degree murder, burglary, kidnapping, robbery with a dangerous weapon, conspiracy, attempted first-degree murder, and assault with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury. Queen told police he shot Lambert in the head while the others watched. Eventually, all nine participants in the murders were charged and convicted. [/FONT]

All those scenarios are possible. The length of the ordeal, along with a release by the captors; that's what make it hard to swallow. JMO

 

[Salsa]

<modsnip>

The only violent criminal Hispanic women I tend to think of are gang members, those capable of abducting and harshly beating a female. The majority of Hispanic females I have come across are well educated or hard workers, religious, happy go lucky in their family traditions. This is why I suggested 2 female violent Hispanic females, committing these offenses would be gang related. And then again, they may not be.

 

[Rayemonde]

But I thought the tan chevy just came up in every report about SP, like the pink jogging outfit, whether it was seen or not?

 

[Rayemonde]

Yesterday, I posted some personal speculation about Pg. 2 of the PR from Nov. 13 http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sher...6.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I'm not debating how well the tip was investigated, it's obvious that many officers responded. I'm just wondering if the report ended up carrying any weight/legitimacy or was possibly even still being examined.

Today, I spent some more time reading PR's pertaining to this case. I stumbled across pg. 3 from this Nov. 3 report (I know many of you have too): http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sher...6.pdf?sfvrsn=2

The links don't work for me, but I am assuming the are to do with possible sightings of SP being reported?

 

[CoolJ]

The links don't work for me, but I am assuming the are to do with possible sightings of SP being reported?

Links are no longer working...

 

[Sillybilly]

The license plate convo has been removed. It is obviously a different plate number.

 

[whonos]

Yesterday, I posted some personal speculation about Pg. 2 of the PR from Nov. 13 http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sheriff/daily-logs/11-12-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I'm not debating how well the tip was investigated, it's obvious that many officers responded. I'm just wondering if the report ended up carrying any weight/legitimacy or was possibly even still being examined.

Today, I spent some more time reading PR's pertaining to this case. I stumbled across pg. 3 from this Nov. 3 report (I know many of you have too): http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/docs/Sheriff/daily-logs/11-03-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Similar to yesterday, I'm not questioning anything to do with the legitimacy or investigative aspects pertaining to this PR.

What I did though, was compare the two police reports. I found a common link in suspect licence plate numbers. Below, you will see three plates which are identical from each case, with two new plate numbers appearing on the 11-13-16 PR. Are we to assume this is an "all incidents" file? Whereas two new plates were added to the 11-13-16 report bringing the total to five suspect plates? OR were the same three plates generated from two different sources? Obviously these plates have been researched by the Investigators. I'm not familiar with licence plate sleuthing known suspected licence plates, but as the police report is public information and these listed licence plates are suspected vehicles, is there anything worthwhile here?

11-4-2016 Police Report Suspect Vehicle(s)
7PUF353 CA 2016 Tan Chevy Suburban
7HIJ606 CA 2016
7W47097 CA 2016

11-13-2016 Police Report Suspect Vehicle(s)
7PUF353 CA 2016 Tan Chevy
7HIJ606 CA 2016
7W47097 CA 2016
6F25880 CA 2016
4GIC261 CA 2016

What does "listed male" mean?

 

[whonos]

After the thread closed yesterday I read a post asking if there had ever been a report of a serial killer releasing the victim. I can't find the post but here are the first three links after Googling:

(Note that some were released and some escaped. I just could not read it all, it is too much.)

http://www.the-line-up.com/serial-killer-suvivors-5-people-who-lived-to-tell-terrifying-tales/

http://people.com/crime/i-survived-serial-killer-ted-bundy-victim-recounts-her-escape-decades-later/

http://listverse.com/2014/05/25/10-survivors-of-serial-killers/

 

[Prahasaurus]

On 17 August 1998, Tracy Lambert and Susan Moore were abducted by prospective Crips ("baby gangsters" or "BGs") in Linden, North Carolina, forced into the trunk of Moore's car, driven to a field outside town, and executed by being shot in the head.

<snip>


Yes, gangs do terrible things. Gang initiation is absolutely a thing.

But gangs do not kidnap 34 year old white, married women and hold them captive for 22 days, then release them. Could it have been a gang initiation gone wrong? Perhaps the plan was to hold her for a day and beat her, then release her, but they kept her when they realized how much attention the case was getting? It's possible, but not likely.

For staters, why would they release her? It's much easier to kill her. Also, gangs don't typically abduct middle aged white women with families, because they are smart enough to know that in the USA, white women get much more media attention than the people the gangs typically target (immigrants, people of color), and gangs hate unwanted attention.

Gangs are actually quite smart in how they approach crime. They go after low hanging fruit, it's a volume business (money, money, money), and they hate attention. Everything about this case is the exact opposite of what gangs would do.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, gangs do terrible things. Gang initiation is absolutely a thing.

But gangs do not kidnap 34 year old white, married women and hold them captive for 22 days, then release them. Could it have been a gang initiation gone wrong? Perhaps the plan was to hold her for a day and beat her, then release her, but they kept her when they realized how much attention the case was getting? It's possible, but not likely.

For staters, why would they release her? It's much easier to kill her. Also, gangs don't typically abduct middle aged white women with families, because they are smart enough to know that in the USA, white women get much more media attention than the people the gangs typically target (immigrants, people of color), and gangs hate unwanted attention.

Gangs are actually quite smart in how they approach crime. They go after low hanging fruit, it's a volume business (money, money, money), and they hate attention. Everything about this case is the exact opposite of what gangs would do.

All your points are valid ones. But here is the thing. There are a lot of statements in the above post which say " Gangs DO NOT DO this or that" or " Gangs are smart in their approach.." etc----The problem is, there are ALWAYS outliers, exceptions to the rule, and cases which do not fit the usual stats.

Sure, gangs do not USUALLY kidnap 34 yr old white women---except when they DO.

Gangs are usually smart in their approach to crime---except when they are not. There are always going to be DUMB, inexperienced, inept gang members that are not smart in their approach.

So although this case SEEMS to be the opposite of what a gang would do, it might be what a dumb, impulsive, wannabe gang member might do.

 

[Prahasaurus]

So although this case SEEMS to be the opposite of what a gang would do, it might be what a dumb, impulsive, wannabe gang member might do.

Yes, I completely agree. I'm definitely not saying, "This is not gang related!" I hate statements like that, because we just don't know. It's possible.

I'm only saying it's unlikely, based on what we currently know about this case. I would even say highly unlikely. But that does not mean the chances are 0%.

This is why I'm so fascinated by this case, it's very hard to fit this into anything we've seen before. It's an outlier in so many ways.