Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #10 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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concentric said:
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If the DNA is of a person not registered in the data bank, then no problem...
Click to expand...

But also not helpful to LE...unless of course it matched DNA of someone they had taken it from...
 
But how does Sierra's DNA on an item lead them to ponds...that is what I am not able to figure out...

I thought the water-searching was based on a tip, at some point yesterday...now it has morphed into being based on what they learned from forensics? Not sure which is true, or maybe both...
 
i believe for now the results did nothing but eliminate one or two of the three paths the LEOs were traveling on. The results had no barring on the planned search of water after the results came in.

I still don't believe she is submerged at the bottom of a body of water.

But I do believe the results proved she was wearing those clothes that day. And they are looking for a deceased person. Which again the results may have proved that. But it has not gotten them any closer to where she may be or whom is responsible.

THE ABOVE ALL MOO AND SPECULATION.
​
 
Reannan said:
If the evidence that has returned from the crime lab is Sierra's, then it can't be from her purse, clothing, or cell phone because of course her DNA would be on those items. It would have to be from something else they have found, and the only other thing that has been leaked to the media is the handcuff box and used condoms - two of them to be exact. If those items are the source of the 'new evidence', then LE surely has DNA from one or both of the perps. I don't think anyone 'uses' a condom and only leaves the DNA from the victim.
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I could be wrong but I really dont think the condoms, handcuffs, or faded sweatshirt has anything to do with Sierra's case. So many things are collected in extensive searches like this and sometimes nothing collected is linked to the case. All we know now is the purse is hers ...phone and clothing.

I think the evidence was found on her clothing. Not DNA belonging to Sierra because that would tell them nothing UNLESS her own blood was present but maybe trace evidence on the panties or her other belongs that belong to the perp. Marlene was never shown the actual clothing and now I think LE had a reason for just describing them instead of bringing her in to look at them.

While some killers like this can be downright stupid... I dont think a perp would leave his DNA behind in two different condoms for LE to find.

But killers are known to discard things and leave evidence of themselves behind. That is how a lot of them are caught and lets hope it leads to an arrest this time.

IMO
 
This has been an interesting one with regards to organized vs. disorganized. Generally speaking, this term referrs to serial killers and not generally sex offenders.

Organized killers generally start out as disorganized and as they continue, they develop start to develop their pattern (what gets them off, MO, adbuction method, sexual sadism).

http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/sadism.htm

http://harfordmedlegal.typepad.com/forensics_talk/profiling_rapists.html

A rapist, stalker or sex offender is not necessarily a sexual sadist (hope this makes sense). Or sociopath or psychopath. The vicimology is important in determining these things. The vicimology at this point is hard to assess and determine the offender at this point because as far as we know there are no similar events/abductions that are similar.

So in theory, an organized killer could start out as a rapist (and there are different types of rapists) or a sex offender (lewd acts, molestation, etc).

Also, a sociopath can be anyone of these, but a sexual psycopath or psycopath generally is an organized killer.

So I don't think this person is an organized killer. It's hard to tell at this point, but I'm leaning towards sex offender who is starting to take his level as an offender to more complex level, but not yet organized...and may never be. Or, things just got out of control.

But they don't necessarily have to have a record if they have never been caught. This could very well be the first time someone has done this, or someone who is taking this to a next psychological sadistic level.

There is also the triad to consider with the offender if they are a killer: animal torture/killing, fire and wetting the bed past the ago of 6 or so..up to 12+. And that would indicate an organized killer or disorganized moving to organized.

So in general - disorganized is usually less experienced in his/her killing and methodolgy. Then the victimology is also essential with solving these crimes.

I hope this makes sense.
 
cluciano63 said:
But how does Sierra's DNA on an item lead them to ponds...that is what I am not able to figure out...

I thought the water-searching was based on a tip, at some point yesterday...now it has morphed into being based on what they learned from forensics? Not sure which is true, or maybe both...
Click to expand...

From what I read earlier this water search today had been planned before anything came back from the lab it just was a matter of timing. And I have read so many articles of what came back from the lab my head is spinning. Reminds me of the clothes issue all over again. Do the have forensics or don't they was it a t- shirt or a jersey?
 
:+:MrTT:+: said:
i believe for now the results did nothing but eliminate one or two of the three paths the LEOs were traveling on. The results had no barring on the planned search of water after the results came in.

I still don't believe she is submerged at the bottom of a body of water.

But I do believe the results proved she was wearing those clothes that day. And they are looking for a deceased person. Which again the results may have proved that. But it has not gotten them any closer to where she may be or whom is responsible.

THE ABOVE ALL MOO AND SPECULATION.
​
Click to expand...

I dont even know why I feel this way but I think they are concentrating on the RV park and who may have been around there the day Sierra went missing.

I have always felt these were the clothes she was wearing that day. I never thought for one second Sierra packed those clothes.

IMO
 
I thought she was in water and that's why the bag isn't with her, it needed to be hid some other way, brought back close to the last known place, rather than thrown out in San Jose for example, whereby they may have more info as to where the perp is familiar with. But then if the bag is deliberately left to be found - especially if left in the way it appears in that video screenshot, I guess I am not so sure. I was struck by a previous poster's theory (cant locate the post now, apologies) about the folded clothes occurring in a quiet/somber, "respectful" act after the culmination of a long period of obsession ending in the crime. In which case the bag was not hidden in a mediocre, quick fashion, but placed deliberately to be found.

Also agree with previous posters that perhaps the urine "leak" did have a basis in fact, if the clothes were wet.
 
90Nine said:
This has been an interesting one with regards to organized vs. disorganized. Generally speaking, this term referrs to serial killers and not generally sex offenders.

Organized killers generally start out as disorganized and as they continue, they develop start to develop their pattern (what gets them off, MO, adbuction method, sexual sadism).

http://www.forensicpsychiatry.ca/paraphilia/sadism.htm

A rapist, stalker or sex offender is not necessarily a sexual sadist (hope this makes sense).

So in theory, an organized killer could start out as a rapist (and there are different types of rapists) or a sex offender (lewd acts, molestation, etc).

Also, a sociopath can be anyone of these, but a sexual psycopath or psycopath generally is an organized killer.

So I don't think this person is an organized killer. It's hard to tell at this point, but I'm leaning towards sex offender who is starting to take his level as an offender to more complex level, but not yet organized...and may never be.

But they don't necessarily have to have a record if they have never been caught. This could very well be the first time someone has done this, or someone who is taking this to a next psychological sadistic level.

There is also the triad to consider with the offender if they are a killer: animal torture/killing, fire and wetting the bed past the ago of 6 or so..up to 12+. And that would indicate an organized killer or disorganized moving to organized.

So in general - disorganized is usually less experienced in his/her killing and methodolgy. Then the victimology is also essential with solving these crimes.

I hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to me.

You are right......not all serial killers or killers in general are sadist. For example, Joesph Duncan was a serial killer and he was a sexual sadist. His gratification came from inflcting horrific pain and torture on his victims.

Well maybe he is more organized than we think because its over a month now and he is still not caught...yet. Hopefully that will soon change.

No one really knows why a particular person like this does the things they do. I always say they have a reason for the way the crime goes down even if we dont understand it. He knows why he hid the items where he did. Was it so they would be discovered to mock LE that he had taken a young girl and they dont have a clue where she is? Perhaps, or he could just be an unorganized killer and wanted to get rid of those particular pieces of evidence ASAP!

Whether he has done this particular crime before or not, I dont know, but I do believe he will have a criminal record of some sort. Crimes of violence. DV, rapes of women or sexual crimes against minors, etc.

JMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I dont even know why I feel this way but I think they are concentrating on the RV park and who may have been around there the day Sierra went missing.

I have always felt these were the clothes she was wearing that day. I never thought for one second Sierra packed those clothes.

IMO
Click to expand...
This new evidence they mentioned. May be speculation they had that now has become fact. And new lead to me means a more certain path to travel on in there investigation. But did-not change things they had preplanned. But looked at other options they were still unsure about until the test came back.

They may have discovered a strain of hair that after being tested show it came from a deceased body. If any one knows what I am speaking of about this hair test. Just using as an example for speculation purposes.

I still remember the mother mentioning about finding a necklace of hers. Hoping to find that is.
 
sreshowtime said:
a little off topic,but FWIW another article about the young man found in pond...only 30 mins. south- I have to admit I am curious what he was upset about...it may have absolutely no connection, but I wondered...
at any rate, may he rest in peace...

http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-ca...pond/-/5738758/10958910/-/la8mw2/-/index.html
Click to expand...

Did he drown in the pond accidentally?

Investigators said they do not suspect foul play nor suicide in Hardy's death. The pond is only about chest-high and 30 feet wide.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
It makes perfect sense to me.

You are right......not all serial killers or killers in general are sadist. For example, Joesph Duncan was a serial killer and he was a sexual sadist. His gratification came from inflcting horrific pain and torture on his victims.

Well maybe he is more organized than we think because its over a month now and he is still not caught...yet. Hopefully that will soon change.

No one really knows why a particular person like this does the things they do. I always say they have a reason for the way the crime goes down even if we dont understand it. He knows why he hid the items where he did. Was it so they would be discovered to mock LE that he had taken a young girl and they dont have a clue where she is? Perhaps, or he could just be an unorganized killer and wanted to get rid of those particular pieces of evidence ASAP!

Whether he has done this particular crime before or not, I dont know, but I do believe he will have a criminal record of some sort. Crimes of violence. DV, rapes of women or sexual crimes against minors, etc.

JMO
Click to expand...

Absolutely Ocean..good points. That is what has been stumping me. I also added (edited) my post to say that the victimology is so important because generally speaking there would be other similar victimology if this person is a repeat offender. But we don't have any indication that similar crimes have happened to anyone in the area...not that they could not have done this somewhere else, but generally this information is kept. So it's hard to determine.

Thanks for your feedback.
 
:+:MrTT:+: said:
This new evidence they mentioned. May be speculation they had that now has become fact. And new lead to me means a more certain path to travel on in there investigation. But did-not change things they had preplanned. But looked at other options they were still unsure about until the test came back.

They may have discovered a strain of hair that after being tested show it came from a deceased body. If any one knows what I am speaking of about this hair test. Just using as an example for speculation purposes.

I still remember the mother mentioning about finding a necklace of hers. Hoping to find that is.
Click to expand...

Oh I hadnt thought of that MrTT.

Yes, they could have found root banded hairs that only show up if it came from the hair of a deceased person.

Thanks for mentioning that. I had not thought about that until you posted.

IMO
 
90Nine said:
Absolutely Ocean..good points. That is what has been stumping me. I also added (edited) my post to say that the victimology is so important because generally speaking there would be other similar victimology if this person is a repeat offender. But we don't have any indication that similar crimes have happened to anyone in the area...not that they could not have done this somewhere else, but generally this information is kept. So it's hard to determine.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...

YW.

But we also have to realize that some of these type of killers can be rather nomadic and dont stay in one area long. Those are the hardest to catch. They do their evil deeds and then move on. They arent all like Gary Ridgeway or BTK who stay and blend into their environment.

I have no doubt that the FBI profiler is hard at work trying to narrow down the profile this person fits into. Now that they seem to have some results on the evidence maybe this will tighten the profile some. We dont know what LE is seeing when they look at Sierra's belongings. I think just the way he arranged the clothes and their condition may tell them more about what type of killer they are dealing with.

IMO
 
gaetanosleuth408 said:
I believe the Canada/US border is about 15 hours away whereas the Mexico/CA border is about 7 hours away.
Click to expand...

I am not sure you could get to Mexico in 7 hours. I have driven from San Jose area to Los Angeles about a zillion times. It is about 7 to 8 hours in good weather, medium traffic. Mexico is a good 3 hours further South.

ETA: I should add that is how long it takes if you are going the speed limit; You could speed and get there faster, but I don't think the perp would speed with her in the car.
 
Another point - I don't think they would have planted evidence to confuse LE if they are an organized or more advanced offender. JMO. That would just bring attention to the situation (as it has) and generally these guys want to continue offending and not have anything that would possibly identify them...they generally (the organized ones or ones developing into organized are very intelligent - you can do studies and you will find that they are above average or almost genius level intelligence). I just can't see someone doing this if they were a serial killer. But I can see someone doing it if they wanted to throw off LE, only if they subconciously want to be caught (some do) or just really not thinking. That's a possibility too.

The phone, the purse, the clothing, the condoms and handcuff box...that's too much of a risk for a more advanced offender. IMO.

I personally don't think this person had or has the intenion of killing her. Unless they are disorganized and not experienced in killing. IMO.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
YW.

But we also have to realize that some of these type of killers can be rather nomadic and dont stay in one area long. Those are the hardest to catch. They do their evil deeds and then move on. They arent all like Gary Ridgeway or BTK who stay and blend into their environment.

I have no doubt that the FBI profiler is hard at work trying to narrow down the profile this person fits into. Now that they seem to have some results on the evidence maybe this will tighten the profile some. We dont know what LE is seeing when they look at Sierra's belongings. I think just the way he arranged the clothes and their condition may tell them more about what type of killer they are dealing with.

IMO
Click to expand...

That is one reason the RV park interests me. Perfect way for a serial killer to roam about, unnoticed.
 
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