Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #6 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[Desdemona]

BBM:

Jumping off your post here : I have seen references to this ... but what raised red flags with me was when Marlene repeatedly referred to Sierra in the PAST tense ...

A mother whose child is missing would NEVER give up hope that their child is not alive ... NEVER give up HOPE !

Some don't see "past tense" as a "problem", but IMO, I do, and I would "think" that the profilers would also ...

:moo:

PREVIOUS interview with Mom
March 23, 2012 NG
Missing cheerleader's mom speaks out - YouTube

From Transcript:

LAMAR: It was just a routine day. She was going to -- you know, she was, you know, getting ready for school. But the previous evening, on Thursday evening, she was excited about doing an English paper for her classroom and doing the research on it. And so, you know, she was -- the last long conversation as far as academically, she was talking about that last night. I mean, not last night...

GRACE: I`m just looking at pictures...

LAMAR: ... but the Thursday evening...

GRACE: ... of her, and she`s just...

LAMAR: ... the previous night.

GRACE: ... absolutely precious. Tell me about her. What are her interests? What does she like to do?

LAMAR: She was passionate -- you know, most of her early years, she did dance, competitive dancing. And she also enjoyed cheerleading because of the school spirit thing and connecting with the school and the -- you know, the athletes as far as being supportive. She was into that, you know, cheering on the school.

And she was driven. You know, she set the bar kind of high for herself as far as, you know, trying her best. And she was hard on herself if she felt like she saw her performance, and you know, could have improved on this and that because she set the bar pretty high.

And I would always tell her, you know, Honey, as long as you try your best, that`s what really matters, you know? You know, don`t be disappointed in yourself as long as you -- you know, you know you put the best effort out there.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/23/ng.01.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes it must be emotionally trying but you think that for the most traumatic time you would have the basic facts straight playing it over and over in your head.

Different people have memories that work differently.

I went through an extremely traumatic experience at school when I was 12 years old. Afterwards, when I was at home and supposed to be doing homework, I realised that I had no idea of what my assignments were because I could no longer remember anything that happened at school before the trauma itself. Total blank.

I will never forget sitting there at the table with my school books and realising that there was about 5 hours of "white space" in my memory.

I know I was at school, I'm certain I attended all my classes (would have heard from the office if I hadn't been present) but I never did get back the memory of the 5 hours or so before the trauma.

The traumatic event itself was/is perfectly clear.

I've often wished it could be the other way around, that I could remember the (undoubtedly totally unremarkable) hours before the trauma and forget the trauma itself.

Based on my own experience, I wouldn't be surprised if Marlene doesn't remember much or anything of her day before she realised that Sierra was missing.

Based on other people's experiences, I also wouldn't be surprised if every tiny detail of that day keeps playing and re-playing in Marlene's memory.

Or anything in between.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I have some questions I hope someone more knowledgeable than me can answer or add some insight to...

first...it was mentioned by the Sheriff that the scent may not have led to the driveway but definitely led out her front door. Can someone tell me how that would happen? I mean even if she was attacked at the door and then dragged to a vehicle would not her scent still lead out to driveway since she had not other way to leave other than out the drive?

also...if she was killed and tracking dogs were tracking her. Is there a different dog for different things. I saw the water dogs today. I mean to say, if they went over her home and neighbors homes with certain sniffy dogs meant for tracking the living, would they hit on it if SL was deceased? Does this question make sense?

Not really having given this much thought but off the top of my head my guess would be that possibly her scent lead from the front door to a car. Parked up in the driveway or even garage.. IMO if that were the case then the scent would not have gone all the way to the end of the drive way.. make sense?

 

[nutkin]

It also has to be pretty unnerving to have everyone dissecting every single word you say and then add to that having your child missing and probably dead.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Well now the sheriff said the bag was "wedged" another new term for us to dissect...between a building and a cactus, of all things...how does something become "wedged" if tossed, I can't imagine...

Well, there are two different ways for objects in flight to stop. One is that the force of gravity overcomes velocity and the object lands relatively gently (think golf drive).

The other way for something to stop is for the object to run into something that stops it.

Since a bag is somewhat deformable, one way for it to become wedged between a cactus and a building would be for it to still have some velocity but not enough to overcome friction and so it stops right there.

Another way would be if the gap between the cactus and the building were somewhat wedge shaped, where the bag was small enough to enter into the large end of the wedge but too large to exit through the narrow end of the wedge.

I believe that the sheriff left it open as to whether the bag had been thrown or placed.

 

[SmoothOperator]

But what is even more telling for me about the bag and books being located wedged between a building and cactus is the fact that the sheriff states that the books are now necessarily not in the bag but outside and alongside the bag..

 

[thequietman]

I in defense of the mom must say, I have had brainfarts before. I have called my kids by the wrong name and when tired and under pressure/stress you can say the wrong thing, does not necessarily mean he actually left after her. Just playing devil's advocate and saying we are all human, we can mispeak at times.

Listened to the show again and the mom did a complete 180 by saying the BF left after her, like she was trying to figure out the answer. That said NG did later in the show give her a pass later in the show and said she "misspoke", but only after 2 other panalists jumped on it that it was a huge difference in the case. The sheriff did say that no one could be ruled out, then later NG pointed out that the BF was cleared. Not sure if she was just trying to re-state the earlier premise to avoid liability or she was reminded by LE or the producers to say it. The mom did open with the comment that the BF had been cleared like she had to get it out first, which was strange because there was nothing to that point the questioning would go down that path. Just strange that the basic details can't get straight.

 

[revampz]

My first post on this case after lots of catching up.

I think before anyone can say anything else, one thing MUST be determined, was the boyfriend in fact home after the mother left or not??

This is extrememly important and someone somehow needs to clarify it. If I was the boyfriend, right now I would be getting my work place to confirm this publicly so as to make EVERYONE clear him as a suspect. If he was in fact home I think the truth should also be told about this and then he would deserve suspicions cast upon him.

 

[cluciano63]

But what is even more telling for me about the bag and books being located wedged between a building and cactus is the fact that the sheriff states that the books are now necessarily not in the bag but outside and alongside the bag..

I didn't know what to make of that...she did not want to give a "yes" or "no" answer to anything...in fact the only thing she said tonight that was not waffling was that no one had been ruled out. She would not give an opinion about how the bag got there, about when/how they might have results, etc...that is why it surprised me that she stated that no one had been cleared. That just kind of threw me, it was the last thing I was expecting. JMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have some questions I hope someone more knowledgeable than me can answer or add some insight to...

first...it was mentioned by the Sheriff that the scent may not have led to the driveway but definitely led out her front door. Can someone tell me how that would happen? I mean even if she was attacked at the door and then dragged to a vehicle would not her scent still lead out to driveway since she had not other way to leave other than out the drive?

also...if she was killed and tracking dogs were tracking her. Is there a different dog for different things. I saw the water dogs today. I mean to say, if they went over her home and neighbors homes with certain sniffy dogs meant for tracking the living, would they hit on it if SL was deceased? Does this question make sense?

I hope sarx or Oriah will speak up here.

I have no way of knowing what the sheriff was trying to say. I also have no idea what the producers of NG edited out of all the interviews, etc.

Yes, if she was attacked at the front door and dragged to a vehicle, she would leave scent all the way. Depending on the vehicle, depending on the scent conditions that day, depending on the dog, there's a chance that some of her scent would be detectable even after she was in the vehicle.

There are dogs that are HRD (human remains detection) trained. Some, not all, such dogs also do water searches for bodies that are underwater (obviously this would be a form of HRD).

There are trailing dogs, that are taught to take scent from a personal item handled by the victim and to indicate only on that living scent.

Some dogs are cross-trained. They are taught to give one indication for a live scent and a different indication for the scent of human remains.

There are other specialties but these are the ones I think are most relevant to Sierra's case.

 

[cluciano63]

My first post on this case after lots of catching up.

I think before anyone can say anything else, one thing MUST be determined, was the boyfriend in fact home after the mother left or not??

This is extrememly important and someone somehow needs to clarify it. If I was the boyfriend, right now I would be getting my work place to confirm this publicly so as to make EVERYONE clear him as a suspect. If he was in fact home I think the truth should also be told about this and then he would deserve suspicions cast upon him.

It still isn't clear to the public...I hope it is clear to LE.
But even if he left first, he could have come back.
NOT SAYING HE DID.
Just was surprised that even with Mom getting all of that heat on NG from the panel re: BF, the sheriff still would not step in and say he was cleared, in fact saying the opposite, that no one had been. One would think she would have wanted to help Mom out there, if she could...JMO

 

[liltexans]

We don't know enough about Rick to know if there is a "workplace". He is apparently in construction, but we don't know if he works out of his home or has an office elsewhere. We don't know if he is the owner and if so, if he has any employees. We have no idea who provided his apparent alibi. If he works in construction (and especially if he owns the business), I doubt he punches a timecard.

Maybe he had a morning meeting that day and that person or company provided his alibi. It would be nice to know to clear up the confusion.

 

[Dee10]

It also has to be pretty unnerving to have everyone dissecting every single word you say and then add to that having your child missing and probably dead.

Yes, no doubt it is...however loved one's statements are crucial to to the investigation. Time is of the essence, so is ruling someone in or out; it is about finding the truth and along the way feelings maybe hurt. Family members should welcome media to spotlight cases IMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It still isn't clear to the public...I hope it is clear to LE.
But even if he left first, he could have come back.
NOT SAYING HE DID.
Just was surprised that even with Mom getting all of that heat on NG from the panel re: BF, the sheriff still would not step in and say he was cleared, in fact saying the opposite, that no one had been. One would think she would have wanted to help Mom out there, if she could...JMO

Did the sheriff know that Marlene was getting pounded on?

I don't watch NG (I don't have TV and refuse to stream her) but my impression was that her show is mostly telephone-in and remote studio interviews.

If I am correct, then one guest on the show may not have any idea of what another guest said or the trend of the questioning.

 

[cluciano63]

I do feel badly for Mom, as she probably inadvertently put the BF under the microscope just as she was desperately trying to avoid even talking about him at all...she may have been mixed up. But the sheriff compounded the issue by avoiding whether or not he was cleared, by saying that no one was ruled out. The show was a fiasco for Mom...and shows why it is probably not a good idea to go onto NG when in a weakened state By the time it was all over, it made it seem like she only was there to defend the BF, which I doubt was her purpose.
JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Did the sheriff know that Marlene was getting pounded on?

I don't watch NG (I don't have TV and refuse to stream her) but my impression was that her show is mostly telephone-in and remote studio interviews.

If I am correct, then one guest on the show may not have any idea of what another guest said or the trend of the questioning.

She may not have known...although NG seemed to go from one to the other several times...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, no doubt it is...however loved one's statements are crucial to to the investigation. Time is of the essence, so is ruling someone in or out; it is about finding the truth and along the way feelings maybe hurt. Family members should welcome media to spotlight cases IMO.

BBM

Another term for what I bolded is "re-victimisation."

I'm not saying that is what is happening in this case but it has certainly happened in other cases. And sometimes the pain of re-victimisation can be nearly as bad as the loss of the loved one.

 

[liltexans]

I feel bad for Marlene, too, but I think the questions posed to her were valid. I have a feeling she has gotten used to shutting people down quickly over the years when her ex-husband's criminal record is brought up. She seemed "proactively defensive" about Rick and I wonder if it's sort of a knee-jerk reaction for her when talking about the men in her life.

 

[cluciano63]

I believe at one point LE said that they knew when the photo had been sent, but not when it was taken...does anyone else recall that?
I wonder if they are considering the possibility that the photo sent was NOT taken that day?

 

[nutkin]

I feel bad for Marlene, too, but I think the questions posed to her were valid. I have a feeling she has gotten used to shutting people down quickly over the years when her ex-husband's criminal record is brought up. She seemed "proactively defensive" about Rick and I wonder if it's sort of a knee-jerk reaction for her when talking about the men in her life.

And you know, she did marry a child molester, so her choice in men is questionable.