CA CA - Valencia, 2 WhtFems UP4388 & 4389, 17-35, in riverbed near I-5, Jan'80

[digitective]

The Doe Network:
Hot Case 1458 The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)


Unidentified White Female

* The victim was discovered on January 26, 1980 in Los Angeles County, California
* Partial Remains

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 17-35 years old (born 1945-1963)
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5".
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Blonde/brown hair. Long dark blond hair also found with the her.
* Fingerprints: Not available
* Dentals: Available

Case History
The victim was located in Los Angeles County, California on January 26, 1980 at approx. 13.00 in a river bed, north of Magic Mountain Parkway west of the Old Road.

======================================================

The Doe Network:
Hot Case 798 The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Unidentified White Female

* The victim was discovered on January 26, 1980 in Valencia, Los Angeles County, California
* Estimated Date of Death: Several months - Less than two years prior.

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 17 - 24 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5"-5'9"
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Medium length, blondish/brown hair.
* Dentals: Available

Case History

The victim was one of two young females found at the same location. Both victims are possible victims of Sunset Strip Serial Murders.
Both are gun shot victims.
They were found in a riverbed South of Valencia Sewage Treatment Plant, 28185 The Old road, Valencia, CA.

3 ruleouts for the first girl:

• Connie Minchaca
• Lucinda Schaefer
• Debra Kidwell

2 ruleouts for the second girl:

• Rebecca Dunn
• Andrea Hall

 

[YaYa_521]

Her Doe Network profile was recently updated.

1322UFCA
Admin Notes
Added: 9/17/07; Last Updated: 7/7/20
Reconstruction of the victim by Sheryl Terrill.

Date of Discovery: January 26, 1980
Location of Discovery: Valencia, Los Angeles County, California
Estimated Date of Death: Months prior; less than two years
State of Remains: Skeletal
Cause of Death: Homicide by gunshot

Physical Description
Estimated Age: 17-24 years old
Race: White
Sex: Female
Height: 5'5" to 5'9"
Weight: Unknown
Hair Color: Medium length, blondish/brown hair.
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown

Identifiers
Dentals: Available.
Fingerprints: Not available.
DNA: Available.

Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: Unknown.
Jewelry: Unknown.
Additional Personal Items: Unknown.

Circumstances of Discovery
The victim was one of two young females found at the same location. Both are possible victims of Sunset Strip Serial Murders (Doug Clark and Carol Bundy) and had been shot to death.

They were found in a riverbed South of Valencia Sewage Treatment Plant, 28185 The Old road, Valencia, CA.

Other victims in this span of killings include 1363UFCA and 1225UFCA.

Investigating Agency(s)
Agency Name: Los Angeles County Coroner
Agency Contact Person: Betsy Magdaleno, Coroner Investigator
Agency Phone Number: 323-343-0512 or 323-343-0754
Agency E-Mail: IDUnit@coroner.lacounty.gov
Agency Case Number: 80-01329

Agency Name: LASD Homicide Cold Case Unit
Agency Contact Person: Harry Lewin, Detective
Agency Phone Number: 323-890-5500
Agency E-Mail: homicideops@lasd.org
Agency Case Number: 1980-00574-0670-011 /Jane Doe 46

NCIC Case Number: U763475698
NamUs Case Number: 4389
Former Hot Case Number: 798

Information Source(s)
NamUs
LA County Coroner's Office
LASD Homicide Cold Case Unit



The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Exclusions
MP7870 Rebecca Dunn 05/10/1979 Clark NV
MP32348 Patricia Gomez 12/26/1979 Marin CA
MP18051 Andrea Hall 07/08/1979 Los Angeles CA

 

[R. Towle]

I see these girls were found together but do we have any evidence to suggest that they were murdered and disposed (ugh, I hate using that word) of together at the same time?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I see these girls were found together but do we have any evidence to suggest that they were murdered and disposed (ugh, I hate using that word) of together at the same time?

they were both shot. im unsure if they have figured out if it was the same time or separate.

 

[MadMcGoo]

• The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
• 1367UFCA

Estimated Age: 17-35 years old
Race: White
Sex: Female
Height: 5'4" to 5'7"
Weight: 120 to 140 lbs.
Hair Color: Blond to brown, long.
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Right eye is slightly lower than the left.

Exclusions
Angela Meeker
Connie Minchaca
Lucinda Schaefer
Debra Kidwell

• The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
• 1322UFCA

Estimated Age: 17-24 years old
Race: White
Sex: Female
Height: 5'5" to 5'9"
Weight: 115-130 lbs
Hair Color: Medium length, blondish/brown hair.
Eye Color: Unknown

Exclusions
Rebecca Dunn
Patricia Gomez
Andrea Hall

 

[devertere]

I'm really surprised that Robin Graham is not on the exclusions list. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

She disappeared from a highway in L.A. in 1970, after having trouble with her car.

 

[BrownBear]

Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP4388

6 Exclusions
MP18981 Jane Wakefield 09/05/1975 Johnson, IA
MP6579 Sherry Roach 06/08/1976 San Mateo, CA
MP6391 Angela Meeker 07/07/1979 Pierce, WA
MP6408 Connie Minchaca 06/09/1978 Napa, CA
MP4571 Lucinda Schaefer 06/24/1979 Los Angeles, CA
MP24298 Debra Kidwell 05/04/1979 Ventura, CA


Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP4389

4 Exclusions
Mary Frances Gregory 02/15/1978
MP32348 Patricia Gomez 12/26/1979 Marin, CA
MP7870 Rebecca Dunn 05/10/1979 Clark, NV
MP18051 Andrea Hall 07/08/1979 Los Angeles, CA

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Pamela Sue Hobley – The Charley Project
1367UFCA


Patricia Ann Spencer – The Charley Project
1322UFCA




I doubt it is them, but I would like to know what they think

 

[Aurora90]

(L) Jane Doe, (R) Lisa Borden
Jane Doe: NamUs #UP4388
Lisa Borden: NamUs #MP8811
I strongly believe that this Doe is missing Big Springs native Lisa Borden.


- Lisa was last seen in Texas in Oct '79, then called her relatives from California later that same month.
- Valencia Jane Doe was found in January 1980, and her estimated date of death is approximately several months

Missing Person / NamUs #MP8811
Lisa Jane Borden, Female, White / Caucasian
Date of Last Contact October 10, 1979
Missing From Big Spring, Texas
Missing Age 19 Years

Circumstances of Disappearance
- Borden was last seen by her family on October 10, 1979 in Big Spring, Texas. She called her relatives later in the month from California. She was last known to be in Lodi, San Joaquin County. Her boyfriend sent her a plane ticket; it was never retrieved by Borden. She is a known hitchhiker.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder how much of the decedent's remains were missing. The screws and hardware in Lisa Borden's hand would rule her out if the hands were recovered.

 

[SimsGuy67]

View attachment 347774View attachment 347773
(L) Jane Doe, (R) Lisa Borden
Jane Doe: NamUs #UP4388
Lisa Borden: NamUs #MP8811
I strongly believe that this Doe is missing Big Springs native Lisa Borden.


- Lisa was last seen in Texas in Oct '79, then called her relatives from California later that same month.
- Valencia Jane Doe was found in January 1980, and her estimated date of death is approximately several months

Missing Person / NamUs #MP8811
Lisa Jane Borden, Female, White / Caucasian
Date of Last Contact October 10, 1979
Missing From Big Spring, Texas
Missing Age 19 Years

Circumstances of Disappearance
- Borden was last seen by her family on October 10, 1979 in Big Spring, Texas. She called her relatives later in the month from California. She was last known to be in Lodi, San Joaquin County. Her boyfriend sent her a plane ticket; it was never retrieved by Borden. She is a known hitchhiker.

Lisa Borden is an unlisted exclusion for this girl. Very sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I have submitted Andria Ann Bailey for #UP4389. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Doe Network has already accepted this match and is sending it to LE as I really submitted weeks ago. Don't think this is automatic exclusion via CODIS because of this. I really hope that this is her! I have linked Andria's case above if anyone wants a closer look. I will brief the case here though. Andria went missing in Spanaway, WA while walking home from a party. A year later the Doe's were found.

Not much is known as Andria was reported missing 10 years after she really went missing so I think this is why they were never tested against each other in the past.

I hope that this is her as both cases are around 43 years old. All the base-line things match (height, weight). Let me know what you think about this potential match!

 

[carbuff]

It looks possible. Fingers crossed.

 

[Aurora90]

Lisa Borden is an unlisted exclusion for this girl. Very sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

An exclusion is sad but also good news. It helps us narrow this jane doe down, and the search for Lisa Borden gets clearer as well.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Lisa Borden is an unlisted exclusion for this girl. Very sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

May I ask how you know? TIA!

 

[SimsGuy67]

May I ask how you know? TIA!

I didn't want to step on anybody's toes but I thought that the timeline would match perfectly is Lisa and Andria were the ID's of both girls so submitted her myself via Doe Network and got this reply:

"Your suggested match was previously submitted to Doe Network and was forwarded to law enforcement. The match was ruled out by LASD Homicide Bureau."

I will be sure to say how I got the match next time!

 

[MadMcGoo]

I didn't want to step on anybody's toes but I thought that the timeline would match perfectly is Lisa and Andria were the ID's of both girls so submitted her myself via Doe Network and got this reply:

"Your suggested match was previously submitted to Doe Network and was forwarded to law enforcement. The match was ruled out by LASD Homicide Bureau."

I will be sure to say how I got the match next time!

No worries! Better a potential match be submitted 1 too many times than never.

I appreciate the response.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I'm honestly freaking out right now! Could someone please present evidence that she isn't the Doe so I can stop having a heart attack? Anyways, if Andria Bailey is #UP4389, then could Elaine Robertson be #UP4388?

Is it just me or does Elaine's eye, the same one as the Doe's, look slightly lower than the other. It may be the angle but my god does she fit! She went missing only an hour away from Andria but even if she went home on her own accord, she lived in California! I honestly don't know what to say anymore. WHY IS IT SO PERFECT? The only thing that doesn't match is the hair colour being slightly off and the fact that there was no dog with the bodies but the killer may have done something else with the dog! I wish we had a coloured picture of Elaine to put my heart at rest. Let me know what you think before I submit it!

 

[MadMcGoo]

I'm honestly freaking out right now! Could someone please present evidence that she isn't the Doe so I can stop having a heart attack? Anyways, if Andria Bailey is #UP4389, then could Elaine Robertson be #UP4388?

Is it just me or does Elaine's eye, the same one as the Doe's, look slightly lower than the other. It may be the angle but my god does she fit! She went missing only an hour away from Andria but even if she went home on her own accord, she lived in California! I honestly don't know what to say anymore. WHY IS IT SO PERFECT? The only thing that doesn't match is the hair colour being slightly off and the fact that there was no dog with the bodies but the killer may have done something else with the dog! I wish we had a coloured picture of Elaine to put my heart at rest. Let me know what you think before I submit it!

Interesting. I don’t see anything to rule it out.

There is an additional photo of Elaine on her thread. It does look like one eye may be lower than the other. I would submit! And also, take a deep breath.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Interesting. I don’t see anything to rule it out.

There is an additional photo of Elaine on her thread. It does look like one eye may be lower than the other. I would submit! And also, take a deep breath.

I will submit! I was just so shocked at the fact that two girls missing from the same area match two girls found together! I wonder what happened to Elaine's dog. My guess is that it was either let loose or was killed and dumped with the girls but wasn't found and went further down what I'm assuming is a creek or river considering that a dog weighs way less than a human. I found her by just running a search of MP's who went missing in the same area as Andria and Elaine was the only one who went missing in Pierce County, like Andria. I'm not excluding the other 2 women I found as they aren't on #UP4388's exclusion list either.
The eye being slightly lower is something that could easily slip under the radar for a MP report.

If you're curious then the two other women were Debra Otis and Kathleen Paulsen but I am very inclined to exclude Kathleen as abduction Kathleen, then Andria and going to Valencia seems like a major detour and this Doe had likely been submitted as Kathleen as someone has mentioned this on her thread. Not saying it's not Kathleen but it's very unlikely. Debra and Kathleen don't seem to have the same eye being lower thing that Elaine possibly has. Kathleen's eye is debatable but with the other evidence it seems unlikely, at least to me. This is all IF Andria is #UP4388 which is only probable at the moment. I just think that Elaine herself makes Andria being her Doe much more likely.

I'm going to avoid making this post any longer and just go and submit this!