Cadaver dogs have hit on dumpster near home

[dunlurken]

Interesting. Because the group "Dogs South" that I linked on the last page is from Georgia.

I know some handlers do train for cadaver and blood. But that practice is frowned upon because how do you tell what the heck your dog hit on? It defeats the purpose of having a cadaver dog.

Did you see the cadaver dog handler on some show last night? Can't remember which one it was..... Nancy, Greta, Jane...... anyway, this dog can detect putrification on top of water. Sorry for being graphic.

 

[impatientredhead]

Do we know for sure this dumpster has not been collected by the refuse company since the disappearance date?

It would be possible that her body was there and removed, either by the refuse company or by someone bold enough to move it during the investigation to another site.

There may be a blanket or clothing that was in contact with a dead body in the current contacts. Three dogs hitting in the same location is a big coincidence. They need to bring in a police cadaver dog for verification.

Do we know how Misty is reacting to this news? Any Casey like reactions to the scene from anyone?

 

[not_my_kids]

I think it was Canine South, the only thing I remember is that when I watching the news on it yesterday, they kept putting up the trailer that the dogs were not LE canines and the group was not LE.

 

[LFlorida]

Did you see the cadaver dog handler on some show last night? Can't remember which one it was..... Nancy, Greta, Jane...... anyway, this dog can detect putrification on top of water. Sorry for being graphic.

It was on Nancy. [Greta's all eat up w/being new pol star, darn it.]

 

[SuziQ]

Did you see the cadaver dog handler on some show last night? Can't remember which one it was..... Nancy, Greta, Jane...... anyway, this dog can detect putrification on top of water. Sorry for being graphic.

I didn't see last nights show, but there was a case recently of two brothers who went fishing and no one saw them again. Cadaver dogs were brought in and hit on their scent from the water and the brothers were found.

 

[PinkyPoo]

All of this really rests on how well a dog and handler is trained. I know there are some dogs that are better then others. In theory they should all be perfect....but in the real world some mistakes are made.

 

[dunlurken]

Hi Dunlurkin, From what I read here late last night, blood does not decompose but starts breaking down immediately upon death. The poster {name? ;} said blood is mainly red blood cells and water, and as this breaks down it joins with the body fluids that escape from the tissue cells that burst in the decomposition process.

That would lead me to believe the blood one sees pooling around a dead body would be there from the pull of gravity and not pumped out as it would be on a bandaid. All that blood would not have a chance to start breaking down in the body before it leaked out. As such, wouldn't that be classified as 'live' blood?

Also, it takes between 1 1/2 to 2 hours before the death scent has been established to where a cadaver/human remains recovery dog can sniff it.

That is my stab at it. I hope the poster from last night who seemed an expert on the subject will post here again today. ;}

I think we are confusing putrification and decomposition. Which to me are one in the same. Wonder if blood does "die" and become decomp? You would think so? It turns brown which to me means it died and is decomposing. Boy, this is truly confusing.

However, in the grand scheme of things, I do not think Haleigh was in that dumpster or else we would have heard something. LE would be on that site like white on rice. Are they still there today?

 

[not_my_kids]

LE said that the 3 dogs hit at the same area ON the dumpster, instead of IN. Does that mean they hit on the outer side?

From the pictures that I saw when they started to unpack that dumpster, it would have had to be the outside, there was no way of getting in the dumpster to start with, it was packed to overflowing.

 

[kellync]

Do we know for sure this dumpster has not been collected by the refuse company since the disappearance date?

It would be possible that her body was there and removed, either by the refuse company or by someone bold enough to move it during the investigation to another site.

There may be a blanket or clothing that was in contact with a dead body in the current contacts. Three dogs hitting in the same location is a big coincidence. They need to bring in a police cadaver dog for verification.

Do we know how Misty is reacting to this news? Any Casey like reactions to the scene from anyone?

(my bold) and for the record, I dont believe this is what happened, but I'm throwin it out there, maybe the RSO that wasnt where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi Dunlurkin, From what I read here late last night, blood does not decompose but starts breaking down immediately upon death. The poster {name? ;} said blood is mainly red blood cells and water, and as this breaks down it joins with the body fluids that escape from the tissue cells that burst in the decomposition process.

That would lead me to believe the blood one sees pooling around a dead body would be there from the pull of gravity and not pumped out as it would be on a bandaid. All that blood would not have a chance to start breaking down in the body before it leaked out. As such, wouldn't that be classified as 'live' blood?

Also, it takes between 1 1/2 to 2 hours before the death scent has been established to where a cadaver/human remains recovery dog can sniff it.

That is my stab at it. I hope the poster from last night who seemed an expert on the subject will post here again today. ;}

Thanks. I get that 1 1/2- 2 hour thing wrong. I get it mixed up with the Body Farm's explanations on how they train, I think.

 

[SuziQ]

Do we know for sure this dumpster has not been collected by the refuse company since the disappearance date?

It would be possible that her body was there and removed, either by the refuse company or by someone bold enough to move it during the investigation to another site.

There may be a blanket or clothing that was in contact with a dead body in the current contacts. Three dogs hitting in the same location is a big coincidence. They need to bring in a police cadaver dog for verification.

Do we know how Misty is reacting to this news? Any Casey like reactions to the scene from anyone?

Except it's not uncommon for cadaver dogs to hit on dumpsters because dumpsters are an effecient way to dispose of a body. Something like 70 percent of dumpsters in any given big city will have a cadaver dog hit. So if they did hit yesterday....who's body had been in there?

ITA about certified LE dogs.

 

[PinkyPoo]

Interesting. Because the group "Dogs South" that I linked on the last page is from Georgia.

I know some handlers do train for cadaver and blood. But that practice is frowned upon because how do you tell what the heck your dog hit on? It defeats the purpose of having a cadaver dog.

You can tell what the dog hit on becasue the dog is trained to alert in a different manner for decomp vs blood.
(your right, it is discouraged to train this way)

 

[winterrose]

Yeah,I had heard that they can scent on top of water and then somebody said,no,it's the gas that comes up from a dead body in the water.I actually thought that kind of meant the same thing,scent on water/scent on water from the gas.Ha But,I guess I stood corrected.Like I would know,only hearing what experts are saying and they need to agree on something.

 

[lakelandladi]

I know when I read docs in Caseys case it said after all of Caylees remains were removed they brought in the cadaver dog and he didnt hit. They thought he may have been confused by the areas being roped off so they dropped the ropes and he still didnt hit anywhere in that area.

 

[impatientredhead]

Hi Dunlurkin, From what I read here late last night, blood does not decompose but starts breaking down immediately upon death. The poster {name? ;} said blood is mainly red blood cells and water, and as this breaks down it joins with the body fluids that escape from the tissue cells that burst in the decomposition process.

That would lead me to believe the blood one sees pooling around a dead body would be there from the pull of gravity and not pumped out as it would be on a bandaid. All that blood would not have a chance to start breaking down in the body before it leaked out. As such, wouldn't that be classified as 'live' blood?

Also, it takes between 1 1/2 to 2 hours before the death scent has been established to where a cadaver/human remains recovery dog can sniff it.

That is my stab at it. I hope the poster from last night who seemed an expert on the subject will post here again today. ;}

I agree with most of what is said here, except the 90 to 120 minute requirement. We don't know how quickly they can pick up the scent. Only that in a controlled test using material in contact with a body that was only 90 to 120 minutes deceased they were able to identify in excess of 95% of the time, even months later.

Testing with material in contact with a corpse for less than 90 minutes has not been published to my knowledge? It would be fascinating to see where the statistical drop off point occurs, but it would seem to me if they have a 95% plus hit rate six months later using material from a 90 minute corpse the drop off point is well before 90 minutes.

They would not hit on a bandage or bandaid, but they would hit on a large pool of blood at a murder scene. We have no way of knowing how long the body with the large pool of blood was there before it was removed. One would think it would take at least 10-15 minutes to wrap the body in a rug or whatever and drag it out of the house. So as the blood pooled out of the body you would have two factors in play the blood seeping from a dead body and the body itself being present for some period of time. Blood on a bandage from a live person's wound would not have those markers. Not to be graphic but the dogs would be useless in that case. Every house would get indicators in the bathroom, every hiking trail would have multiple spots (how many people have cut/scraped/wounded themselves hiking and climbing?). It would make them completely useless.

 

[SuziQ]

All of this really rests on how well a dog and handler is trained. I know there are some dogs that are better then others. In theory they should all be perfect....but in the real world some mistakes are made.

I'm thinking this might be bad reporting on the part of the media. Them not knowing the difference between a cadaver or search dog. Somehow the translation got lost between the "officials" and the reporter. Because what's been reported just does not make sense. Either that or LE is trying to throw us off. And I really can't see LE doing that.

 

[impatientredhead]

Except it's not uncommon for cadaver dogs to hit on dumpsters because dumpsters are an effecient way to dispose of a body. Something like 70 percent of dumpsters in any given big city will have a cadaver dog hit. So if they did hit yesterday....who's body had been in there?

ITA about certified LE dogs.

Totally agree, it is only an indication that a body or something in contact with a dead body is or has been in that dumpster. No way to conclude that is Haleigh that left those markers.

Though if the 70% is accurate it seems like we should have seen some dumpster hits and searches during the Caylee search and I don't recall any. Just thinking outloud.

 

[dunlurken]

I know when I read docs in Caseys case it said after all of Caylees remains were removed they brought in the cadaver dog and he didnt hit. They thought he may have been confused by the areas being roped off so they dropped the ropes and he still didnt hit anywhere in that area.

Once again I will state. Little faith in cadaver dogs. If they find a real cadaver, or decomp okay.

See, here's my problem with the dogs. Wouldn't human bones be considered cadaver bones? It's the decomp they alert on.

 

[winterrose]

Interesting. Because the group "Dogs South" that I linked on the last page is from Georgia.

I know some handlers do train for cadaver and blood. But that practice is frowned upon because how do you tell what the heck your dog hit on? It defeats the purpose of having a cadaver dog.

Maybe this where the decrepancy is coming in the experts,some cadaver trainers are training just with decomp and some are training for decomp and blood,just like any two trainers in alot of things,train differently.

 

[scandi]

Thanks. I get that 1 1/2- 2 hour thing wrong. I get it mixed up with the Body Farm's explanations on how they train, I think.

Hi, Last night I still thought that the separating of blood cells that starts to occur immediately when the heart stops pumping was called decomposition.

Our articulate poster whose name I can't remember wrote in her first sentence that blood does not decompose but rather breaks down and joins with decomposition fluids.

I was wrong and appreciated her input. She had all the lingo down to where I think she knows her subject ;} It is one of the neat things about Forumdon, as we learn new things every day. Ya Baby!

xox