Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[Snoop Sister]

We've already been asked by the mods not to discuss this further.

Thanks, I did't see that. Please show me the link.

 

[DaisyBlantyre]

I can't imagine the killer(s) not looking over his shoulder while in the L's house carrying out the murders. To leave the hallway light on all night long, with a glass front door, would be very thoughtless. Considering the same person's (?)personal habits made him hang the hose back up on the rack after hosing down the walkway.
If he needed the light to carry out his attack, it doesn't make sense to me that a careful killer would choose to leave that front light left on. A back bedroom light left on all night would be less likely to attract attention to there being a strange truck in the driveway. A strange truck in the driveway, with no light left on would just indicate overnight company to any close friends on the block.
Something about the hallway light being left on has been niggling me.

I agree. It would be helpful to know what the L's habits were. After a number of break-ins on our street last summer, LE told all of us on our street to keep our front and back door lights on all night to help deter crime. Before that some of our neighbours with family rooms in their basements or at the back of their houses appeared to have no one home with nary a light showing at the front.

That may have been the L's practice; all lights off outside and retire to a room at the back of the house.

My niggling thought has been that sign on the door. As KL was a former realtor, I feel she would have taken that down as soon as the sale was over as a matter of course. Or that JO would have as she left...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

For this reason I'm thinking they would have to have been dealt with separately

Yes, but how? How could 1 overcome 3 (more like 2 I guess, but still *control* and keep *quiet* 3 frenzied/panicked people)? Unless DG threatened the sweet boy with any weapon, but wouldn't AL and KL lunge and take the risk if it was a knife? Or maybe that was the violent struggle and if it was, I still don't get how DG could overpower KL and AL fighting for the child's life...

 

[ella20]

From what I understand there are different situations and ways that things are handled.

Life insurance plans generally have a beneficiary. In the case of a beneficiary the funds are paid directly to that person(s). Other funds such as investments (RRSP, TFSA, etc.) sometimes have beneficiaries listed as well in which case the funds would be payable to whoever is listed. Payments to beneficiaries happen outside of the estate.

When beneficiaries are not available the funds become payable to the estate. The estate holds all funds for distribution. The estate is also liable for settling bills and what not. When it comes to debts the estate is not liable for payment of the debts but a creditor can make a claim against the estate for the amount which is owed at which point the estate has to pay the creditor.

Why it's important to always name beneficiaries and keep them updated... If not, proceeds go to the estate and are not just subject to creditor claims but also to probate tax as well

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Sure. But how many leave their front hallway light? That's what we're talking about.

Maybe they did that intentionally for little NO, so that he'd find his way to bathroom easier in the night / maybe he was afraid of the total dark when not in his own home.

 

[Snoop Sister]

"Verification" in the following clause, relates to prototyping. If the family acknowledges that Garland altered a patent design, that is enough for me to believe that he was a co-inventor. That he was not named on the patent is not petty, and would probably not be considered "petty" by the patent office. It would, however, be on Garland to prove that the alterations were his ideas, so he would need drawings, notes, dates and proof.

"Accordingly, an individual who contributes to the inventive concept may be a co-inventor without being the prime originator. However, if a person’s ingenuity is directed to verification rather than the original inventive concept, they are not considered co-inventors."

http://patent-advice.ca/who-is-an-inventor-in-canadian-patent-law/

I don't think Garland's claim was petty. If it had work, millions could have been made as a result of the invention.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

It wasn't a great idea to do the perp walk like that. Not only is it unfair if he is innocent (innocent until proven guilty, remember), but also, it could jeopardize any the case because the jury members could be influenced by it.

Absolutely!!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This was determined to be a premeditated murder. Everything that was going to be said had been said prior to these murders.

Was it actually determined as a premeditated murder? Or were the charges laid the harshest that could be laid? It would be up to the crown to prove that they were premeditated, and up to the defense to prove they were not...perhaps the LE have no idea really whether premeditated or not, but went for the harshest charge they could.

 

[daniela40]

I've been thinking about the murder weapon and assuming AL and KL were awake (as violent struggle happened) I was thinking it couldn't be knife because if AL was fighting for his life with DG with knife wounds (you always hear on medical shows/crimes shows how hard it is to kill someone because people fight hard for their lives, and it's messy) a neighbor or someone would've heard KL scream or she could've ran out unless subdued. But then I question how could DG get her subdued? Threaten with a gun? I thought maybe gun with a silencer (maybe too many movies, do real criminals actually use silencers?) because I don't know, I think DG might be cowardly that way. I'm wondering about the weapon...

Ok crazy thought here...

Could DG have used a gun on AL and KL and kept it quiet using a silencer?

I also might have watched too many movies ha ha but I know I've seen things like a potato, lawn mower mufflers etc used as silencers.

Could DG have designed his own silencer seeing as he was a bit of an innovator?


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[Sillybilly]

Thanks, I did't see that. Please show me the link.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...June-2014-*ARREST*-10&p=10778793#post10778793

 

[Sillybilly]

Based on his profile for Ranchland Equipment Ltd, I think DG was capable of producing a silencer:

http://wikiparts.com/index.php?opti...stributor_info&Itemid=103&distributor_id=7752

Also, Ranchland Equipment Ltd was established in 2000 and under Description of Services is listed "prototypes", so I do think his involvement in the invention was probably related to the prototype of the pump, not the concept.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I wonder whether cadaver dogs picked up a scent in DG's truck,and where? Cab or truck bed?
I know this is out there ,but what IF AL was not the intended victim.Could it be possible,since they are around the same age,that DG could have met KL years ago when he and AL began their business dealings? What if he became obsessed with her ,stalked her and became enraged when it came out that they were moving to Mexico?In his mind,maybe he thought he had a chance with KL,up until that point......IDK....just a thought...

I have had the same thought as well

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Thank God Cherchri, I thought you'd gone round the bend! I'm all for theories but let's not get carried away with the implausible ....

What's wrong with that theory? Nothing's impossible you know, and it's not a large community...so....

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This whole thread has been about how DG killed the family and removed their bodies basically, aside from the comments regarding the fund raisers.
I think I'm still stuck back in the pre-arrest posts...I feel that DG was used as a decoy for the "disappearance" of the L's and NO...I can't get over how he basically waved a red flag to police that said "Pick Me" on it. Seriously, who would drive their truck around the neighborhood you were going to commit murder in as if on parade? Then why would same person who has been given 'genius' status use a previously stolen i.d. that the police already know about and that he's done some jailtime for. His conspicuous (rare) truck was parked on the driveway at the acreage in broad daylight. I think DG is the red herring and the real criminals went in the other direction. This is all because something definitely does not add up....and there are way too many avenues and connections AL had if required, and no one in that household seemed to know exactly where they were going or what they were doing (neighbors told conflicting stories and even JL wasn't sure! I don't know about you, but I know where my parents are at all times!! JMO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Ok crazy thought here...

Could DG have used a gun on AL and KL and kept it quiet using a silencer?

I also might have watched too many movies ha ha but I know I've seen things like a potato, lawn mower mufflers etc used as silencers.

Could DG have designed his own silencer seeing as he was a bit of an innovator?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that if you shot a gun through a pillow it doesn't make much noise either.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I think that if you shot a gun through a pillow it doesn't make much noise either.

I've been thinking about the murder weapon and assuming AL and KL were awake (as violent struggle happened) I was thinking it couldn't be knife because if AL was fighting for his life with DG with knife wounds (you always hear on medical shows/crimes shows how hard it is to kill someone because people fight hard for their lives, and it's messy) a neighbor or someone would've heard KL scream or she could've ran out unless subdued. But then I question how could DG get her subdued? Threaten with a gun? I thought maybe gun with a silencer (maybe too many movies, do real criminals actually use silencers?) because I don't know, I think DG might be cowardly that way. I'm wondering about the weapon...

And maybe whoever did it simply suffocated them simultaneously with their pillows, or knocked one out and strangled the rest...maybe there isn't a murder weapon at all.

 

[news.talk]

I've been thinking about the murder weapon and assuming AL and KL were awake (as violent struggle happened) I was thinking it couldn't be knife because if AL was fighting for his life with DG with knife wounds (you always hear on medical shows/crimes shows how hard it is to kill someone because people fight hard for their lives, and it's messy) a neighbor or someone would've heard KL scream or she could've ran out unless subdued. But then I question how could DG get her subdued? Threaten with a gun? I thought maybe gun with a silencer (maybe too many movies, do real criminals actually use silencers?) because I don't know, I think DG might be cowardly that way. I'm wondering about the weapon...

Bludgening would make more sense than a gun. Given the terminology LE gave, and with what types of human remains they would need to determine death....

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

This whole thread has been about how DG killed the family and removed their bodies basically, aside from the comments regarding the fund raisers.
I think I'm still stuck back in the pre-arrest posts...I feel that DG was used as a decoy for the "disappearance" of the L's and NO...I can't get over how he basically waved a red flag to police that said "Pick Me" on it. Seriously, who would drive their truck around the neighborhood you were going to commit murder in as if on parade? Then why would same person who has been given 'genius' status use a previously stolen i.d. that the police already know about and that he's done some jailtime for. His conspicuous (rare) truck was parked on the driveway at the acreage in broad daylight. I think DG is the red herring and the real criminals went in the other direction. This is all because something definitely does not add up....and there are way too many avenues and connections AL had if required, and no one in that household seemed to know exactly where they were going or what they were doing (neighbors told conflicting stories and even JL wasn't sure! I don't know about you, but I know where my parents are at all times!! JMO

So you go through all the trouble of setting someone up, and they have a solid alibi... Then what?

I agree the conflicting, confusing stories raise some red flags.

 

[news.talk]

This whole thread has been about how DG killed the family and removed their bodies basically, aside from the comments regarding the fund raisers.
I think I'm still stuck back in the pre-arrest posts...I feel that DG was used as a decoy for the "disappearance" of the L's and NO...I can't get over how he basically waved a red flag to police that said "Pick Me" on it. Seriously, who would drive their truck around the neighborhood you were going to commit murder in as if on parade? Then why would same person who has been given 'genius' status use a previously stolen i.d. that the police already know about and that he's done some jailtime for. His conspicuous (rare) truck was parked on the driveway at the acreage in broad daylight. I think DG is the red herring and the real criminals went in the other direction. This is all because something definitely does not add up....and there are way too many avenues and connections AL had if required, and no one in that household seemed to know exactly where they were going or what they were doing (neighbors told conflicting stories and even JL wasn't sure! I don't know about you, but I know where my parents are at all times!! JMO

As I stated earlier up the threads, the standard in which the ME uses to determine actual death without the actual body, is EXTREMELY high - There needs to be a preponderance of evidence. Also, for the Crown to move forward with homicide charges without the bodies, they would require overwhelming evidence to move forward to the next stage of trial. I really don't believe that there is a cover-up for anything or anyone else. The CPS Major Crimes Unit, the Forensic Unit and the ME are all top-notch professionals and I'm inclined to trust them.

 

[2Hope4]

Well I suppose stranger things have happened. Many have faked their death for one reason or another. But, then I think of Nathan. Would grandparents be cruel enough to make parents think he was dead and they would never see again? Would grandparents be able to stay away from the other grandkids? In this case, from the photos we've seen, from the stories released, I just don't think Kathryn would do that.

I don't think LE would tell a family their loved ones are deceased without strong evidence.

Whether Douglas had help or not, I don't know.