Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[Krystine]

Why would there be a violent struggle if a gun was used?

The attacker brandishing a gun, and a violent struggle between the two men, as in punches to the head, table lamps or wine bottles over the head, ... to me those would be violent struggles if there was blood evidence.

 

[LoriMcA]

Here is another haunting case from my neck of the woods where somebody was charged and the body never located
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/12/...-says-sister-of-christine-jack-25-years-later

Ohhh I remember that case vividly... My sister & I were just discussing it the other day...that poor woman..and really young children.... I think the trials dragged on for about 10 years IIRC...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm curious about who declared the suspect a genius. Was that in the same report where it was alleged that trauma he suffered from an imaginary car accident resulted in his withdrawal from university? We know that he was expelled from university for cheating ... nothing to do with a car accident. I suspect that there are many errors in that particular document.

Even Einstein is subject to the basic physics of committing murder. Plan all you like, but ultimately, it's not under your complete control.

Who's to say the vehicle accident didn't happen? There might not be a record of it if he ran over his own dog, or caused a serious injury to a close family member. He could still feel traumatized and guilty about it.

As for psychological reports by professionals... It is not an exact science, and they shouldn't be relied on as much as they are. There are aspirations and bias involved with the professional, combined with selective information and behaviour supplied by the patient. It's no surprise that many, many of them are completely wrong.

 

[Krystine]

We do too. The porch light, the entrance hall and a lamp between the living room and kitchen.

Did it occur to you by doing that, you are making it easier for an intruder to see the entire layout of your home? To me, that is giving 'them' an advantage in the middle of the night. JMO.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

There's a lot we don't know, which is why we speculate and brainstorm on here, I think.
To quote Corner Gas,,," I don't know the same things that you don't know"...

And who knows...the speculating and brainstorming just might supply a clue or an answer that no one else thought of.

 

[Sillybilly]

Everything we learned from police and the presence of the medical examiner suggests a violent, bloody murder. Handguns are prohibited and silencers are something from the movies, but guns are still suggested as the murder weapon.

list of prohibited weapons in Canada:

http://www.firearms-safety-course.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=23

Neighbours from the South illegally importing guns:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1463659/12-guns-seized-at-coutts-border-crossing/

<bbm>

Next to drugs, gun smuggling is one of the biggest organized crime businesses in Canada, and that includes guns with silencers. Admittedly, most of those confiscated are machine guns when the bust is associated with OC. The annual $70 billion dollar pot industry in BC alone exchanges BC bud across the border in exchange for guns and cocaine. If DG has any shady contacts at all, chances of him being able to acquire a gun with a silencer are high.

Having said the above however, I feel it is more likely that DG's scientific bent, his penchant for cooking up drugs in his own laboratory, working with chemicals, having his own manufacturing shop (Ranchland), having his own vertical milling machine, I feel the chances are good that he could have taken pride in manufacturing a silencer to be used in his (alleged) premeditation of the murder.

Instructions for making gun silencers are readily available on the internet and have been for years. Here's an example from a 1930 handbook where a vertical milling machine is used in the manufacture of a homemade silencer (Note: weird typos are not mine):

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...kshop_Silencers.pdf+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

My own Vertical Milling Machine, set up to drill vent holes in silencer

sleeve. Naturally. the machine has some clrips anti shavings an it

since I use it ever]: tiny. Will: a tnacliine such as this, together will! a

good lathe and some welding and heat treating eaainrnent, almost

anything that it is possible to malcefrorn metal can be built provided

that the operator is capable of it

Just one recent example here in BC:

from:
http://www.thenownewspaper.com/news...rifying-home-invasion-in-north-delta-1.949506

Before leaving, the thieves were interrupted by a gardener and a neighbour who "promptly" left when told to. Crawford noted that the neighbour "literally charged in" and then "charged out equally fast" when Kassa's accomplice raised a gun with a silencer.

 

[Kelannsha]

Did it occur to you by doing that, you are making it easier for an intruder to see the entire layout of your home? To me, that is giving 'them' an advantage in the middle of the night. JMO.

Last year a man followed me in through the garage after an evening walk...I had left the door open because my husband was home and was heading out as soon as I came in. Luckily we heard the smallest click of the door. However there are no windows at the end of the hall...walking into the darkness to flip the light in was scary! Long story short I found him hiding in my daughters room behind her door...he didn't need a light to find the hiding place but I needed one to find him! We now leave that hall and the from hall lights on at night.

 

[marleem]

I apologize if this has already been brought up - I have tried to read most of the posts but this is my first time posting. There has been a lot of talk about a violent struggle, what type of weapon was used / could have been used. From the pictures I have seen of DG, he doesn't appear to have any marks on his exposed skin, am I wrong? You would assume if the struggle was as violent as people seem to think, he would have marks to his face, arms, hands. Could it be possible that the struggle to kill the victims wasn't as violent as reported BUT that DG wanted to make it look like a home invasion after the fact. Here is a family that had just had an estate sale where hundreds of strangers walked through their house - maybe DG wanted to make it look like someone tried to rob them. So in order to do that, DG broke things etc, possibly after they were already dead, either while they were in the house still or if he came back afterwards to clean. I just don't understand why you cannot see traces of a struggle on DG.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Sadly we will go round and round with varying scenario's about this crime and although I tend to keep things simple in my view of how it was planned and executed, it is utterly awful for the victims and family. I think the suspect kept things simple from the get go. Likely suspect carried some form of a chemical and cloth combination to render victims less able to fight back and then suspect caused bodily injury resulting in dna. There was evidence of a struggle in the home whether caused by the suspect in his fury of the crime or the victims in their attempt to flee. What I have difficultly reconciling is how this suspect went from the type of criminal activity he was known for to this violent crime. It is an extreme leap from prior offences to murder. I realize LE is checking for similarities in other crimes but I still wonder why suspect allowed it to escalate in his mind this plan.
As well, it was likely imo that the entry point was the side door along the garage side and could have been broken into rather then being let in. I think the family was asleep and woken by suspect.
jmo

 

[Blue Amethyst]

In the Jodi Arias case, she is convicted but not yet sentenced. She had no prior convictions but incapacitated a 195 pound man with a knife to the abdomen. She was only 120 pounds but caught him completely off guard. He fought back and she had one wound to her finger which she said was from a broken glass. It was pre meditated because she was the jilted girlfriend and drove many miles to kill him. I have no idea why people snap like that and plan their revenge. Just like DG, she could have disappeared but it seems both were so darn sure they would not get caught. DG could have been miles away by the time they found him. In his case he has disappeared before so I don't know why he would stay.

 

[lynck]

Let's not forget there was a forensic blood spatter expert brought in to assess the crime scene, that would indicate to me that it was likely not knife related, strangling related, or related to any other 'silent' method of killing someone. It basically had to be either blunt force trauma or firearm occurring inside the residence at the time of the incident.

 

[otto]

Even Einstein is subject to the basic physics of committing murder. Plan all you like, but ultimately, it's not under your complete control.

Who's to say the vehicle accident didn't happen? There might not be a record of it if he ran over his own dog, or caused a serious injury to a close family member. He could still feel traumatized and guilty about it.

As for psychological reports by professionals... It is not an exact science, and they shouldn't be relied on as much as they are. There are aspirations and bias involved with the professional, combined with selective information and behaviour supplied by the patient. It's no surprise that many, many of them are completely wrong.

Garland claimed that he withdrew from university due to a vehicle accident. The truth is that he was expelled for cheating.

 

[otto]

Let's not forget there was a forensic blood spatter expert brought in to assess the crime scene, that would indicate to me that it was likely not knife related, strangling related, or related to any other 'silent' method of killing someone. It basically had to be either blunt force trauma or firearm occurring inside the residence at the time of the incident.

Why would we assume that evidence of blood supports a theory that a knife was not used?

 

[kaley]

Sadly we will go round and round with varying scenario's about this crime and although I tend to keep things simple in my view of how it was planned and executed, it is utterly awful for the victims and family. I think the suspect kept things simple from the get go. Likely suspect carried some form of a chemical and cloth combination to render victims less able to fight back and then suspect caused bodily injury resulting in dna. There was evidence of a struggle in the home whether caused by the suspect in his fury of the crime or the victims in their attempt to flee. What I have difficultly reconciling is how this suspect went from the type of criminal activity he was known for to this violent crime. It is an extreme leap from prior offences to murder. I realize LE is checking for similarities in other crimes but I still wonder why suspect allowed it to escalate in his mind this plan.
As well, it was likely imo that the entry point was the side door along the garage side and could have been broken into rather then being let in. I think the family was asleep and woken by suspect.
jmo

I agree with everything you said except the part about him breaking in through the side door as LE has said there was no signs or forced entry.

 

[Krystine]

Last year a man followed me in through the garage after an evening walk...I had left the door open because my husband was home and was heading out as soon as I came in. Luckily we heard the smallest click of the door. However there are no windows at the end of the hall...walking into the darkness to flip the light in was scary! Long story short I found him hiding in my daughters room behind her door...he didn't need a light to find the hiding place but I needed one to find him! We now leave that hall and the from hall lights on at night.

I'm glad (hoping) that the outcome wasn't bad for your family. It would be great to know how that ended for the interloper.

It's really hard to know the best way to protect ourselves re: lights on or off while we are sleeping. In my case, we had the advantage of knowing our house (in the dark), whereas the people breaking in had to grope around and it left them off balance.
I still believe a light on in the wee hours of the night can be a bad idea. Again, it's hard to know for sure in every case.

 

[Cherchri]

The attacker brandishing a gun, and a violent struggle between the two men, as in punches to the head, table lamps or wine bottles over the head, ... to me those would be violent struggles if there was blood evidence.

Me too BUT I think LE said a violent incident as opposed to a violent struggle. There's a difference IMO!

"When Nathan's mother arrived to pick him up on June 30, the three were missing and police say they found evidence that a violent incident had taken place inside the home."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-search-teams-return-to-liknes-home-1.2705128

 

[lynck]

Why would we assume that evidence of blood supports a theory that a knife was not used?

Well unless the suspect was flailing around I can't imagine there being "spatter" so much to be analyzed by investigators. Granted a sword would yield a different effect and may cause more "spatter" to look into. LE did say they were looking for 'specific' pieces of evidence, which would likely include the murder weapon they suspect would be used. I think it could have been something either manufactured by the suspect, or a simple bat, club, sword, gun, or something of the like which would ended up causing a "spatter" situation. I just don't think the theory posted about using something like ether to incapacitate the victims before the slaying is a viable scenario given the LE comments provided in the media.

 

[otto]

I think it's important that we not generalize about criminal activities in other parts of Canada and assume that the same is true of Calgary. Canada is the second largest country in the world (after Russia) so what happens 1200 miles away in Vancouver is not a reflection of what happens in Calgary. The crime rate nation wide is now at the level it was in 1973. What I would like to point out is that gun crime with silencers in Calgary is like hearing about aliens landing on the moon. It might happen, but it's very rare.

"Canada's crime rate fell by eight per cent over the previous year in 2013, according to police-reported crime numbers released today by Statistics Canada."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-s-crime-rate-continued-downward-trend-in-2013-1.2715356

"The study rates the 100 largest metropolitan areas in Canada. Using Statistics Canada information for crime statistics in 2010, with a focus on homicides, sexual assaults, aggravated assaults, robberies, vehicle thefts and break-and-enters, the magazine put together the following notable rankings. ... Calgary ranked one of Canada’s safest major cities ... Calgary! The city was also ranked 5th best city to live in the world for 2010 and 2011 by the Economist magazine. If you are looking for a great place to call home, raise a family, live, laugh, love and prosper – Calgary is the place for you!"

Best cities in Canada: 2014 ... Calgary ranks second after the small town of St Albert.

http://www.moneysense.ca/canadas-best-places-to-live-2014-full-ranking

"Calgary, ranked by the Economist Intelligence Unit in 2013 as one of the best cities in the world to live"

http://www.albertacanada.com/opportunity/choosing/province-cities.aspx

 

[Cherchri]

Did it occur to you by doing that, you are making it easier for an intruder to see the entire layout of your home? To me, that is giving 'them' an advantage in the middle of the night. JMO.

Well it's not my home I am staying with friends BUT a) they have a youngster who works odd shifts and needs to see when he arrives home and usually needs to grab something to eat. A well lit residence is, in my opinion a deterrent to anyone wanting to gain access - that's why people have floodlights and motion sensors. B) I recently moved back here from South Africa which has phenomenal crime levels. It may interest you to know that homes with 10 foot walls and no lighting are more frequently robbed than homes with no fences or boundary walls and motion sensors/outdoor lighting.

 

[otto]

Well unless the suspect was flailing around I can't imagine there being "spatter" so much to be analyzed by investigators. Granted a sword would yield a different effect and may cause more "spatter" to look into. LE did say they were looking for 'specific' pieces of evidence, which would likely include the murder weapon they suspect would be used. I think it could have been something either manufactured by the suspect, or a simple bat, club, sword, gun, or something of the like which would ended up causing a "spatter" situation. I just don't think the theory posted about using something like ether to incapacitate the victims before the slaying is a viable scenario given the LE comments provided in the media.

I don't think these murders had anything to do with chemicals and drugs. I think the suspect went to the house with a weapon with the intent to kill. That is what I conclude based on the fact that the victims have been declared dead and charges of premeditated murder. The presence of the medical examiner, and information from police, imply that there was blood at the scene, that there was a violent struggle, and that at least one person was in "medical distress". This strikes me as a straight forward blitz attack where one after the other, the victims were violently attacked (not from a distance with a gun). The victims were removed from the crime scene not of their own volition ... dragged. They were put in the back of a pick up truck, taken from the scene, and they are now where ever the suspect put them. He may have used lye to increase decomposition, perhaps not ... that remains to be seen.