Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[Blue Amethyst]

I hope this case doesn't go the way of the Pincher Creek, AB cold case murders of RCMP Sgt. Peter Sopow and Lorraine McNab. They found the bodies, had an eye witness to a car, knew what the gun was but could not find it. They arrested WS who was a POI but let him go. It is coming 17 years now and the families are still waiting for Justice. I hope there is enough evidence in this NO case to go to trial. We just don't know what the evidence is and can only speculate.

My heart goes out to those here who give us a tiny glimpse into their lives, who have had someone precious taken from them. They know much more than we ever could.

 

[bullish]

The documents from the court stated that DG was a genius. In my opinion DG would have been sent through rigorous psychiatric testing upon his arrest for meth production/identity theft/evading police ... This psych review would be completed by a court approved psychiatrist and a report would be presented, in court, to the judge.

The term genius is a reflection of IQ. A standardized psychiatric assessment would include a number of different assessments of IQ...Furthermore, the court documents stated DG suffered from ADHD, a diagnosis which I believe was provided in a court ordered psychiatric review. (snip).

And would this have been the same Einstein psychiatrist who determined DG was only a moderate risk?

I have no argument with your comments, Leeby; only with the shrink(s) who classified him.

 

[2Hope4]

Someone here noticed that the lights were still on in the early police photos at the scene. Some (including me) speculated whether this happened shortly after Nathan's mom left. In that case, people may not have paid attention. Additionally, it was essentially a long weekend for many professionals, where they took a four day weekend including the Monday, so it's possible that a lot of neighbours were away. Additionally, if this was done at 1AM, that really cuts down the time that the suspect had to make two trips, commit three murders, move three bodies, clean up and be on his way home at about 4AM.

We don't know their habits. The light could have been left on from the morning of the sale, and they forgot it. Or they could be the type that leaves a light on. Perhaps the daughter left it on when she left at 10PM and the Liknes didn't know the light was on. Unless the outlet to turn that light on was in a place that only someone close to the family knew, I think the light is a non issue.

There could on the off chance be that JO turned the light on when she entered that morning as the foyer is rather dark but we don't know for sure.

True. We don't know.

I can't imagine the killer(s) not looking over his shoulder while in the L's house carrying out the murders. To leave the hallway light on all night long, with a glass front door, would be very thoughtless. Considering the same person's (?)personal habits made him hang the hose back up on the rack after hosing down the walkway. If he needed the light to carry out his attack, it doesn't make sense to me that a careful killer would choose to leave that front light left on. A back bedroom light left on all night would be less likely to attract attention to there being a strange truck in the driveway. A strange truck in the driveway, with no light left on would just indicate overnight company to any close friends on the block. Something about the hallway light being left on has been niggling me.

We don't know that Douglas used that hose at all. Nothing released has stated the hose was used. It's been stated as a fact, but it's not. Again, the light to me is a non issue, as we do not know the habits of the Liknes. They might have normally left a light on. They could have been up late packing stuff that was left from the sale, gathering things to dispose of, etc., and were just tired and left the light on, or were attacked while still up, and the perp left it on for whatever reason.

I leave the light on by the front door every night....

Many people do.

The timeframe could have been anywhere between 10:00 pm and 10:00 am ... we don't have all the facts. We don't know that what appears to be an early morning capture of the truck wasn't taken the day prior. Plus, I'm not talking gory details and prolonged hours of torture. Going back to "why Kathryn" when his beef was presumably with AL? DG had to have known Kathryn would be there (it seems only Nathan was the surprise). I'm suggesting the possibility of brief moments where AL may have been forced to witness the death of his loved ones before he was killed, whether in the home or elsewhere.

*snipped by accident...** We truly don't know anything about a timeline other than the 10p-10a. As the perp wasn't there when the daughter left, and wasn't there when she returned. That's 12hrs that the perp had. Whether he realized he had 12hrs or not, we don't know. Some are saying he had days to dispose of things, and in the literal sense he did. However, he didn't know how long he would have, nor if someone would immediately suspect him. Thus, IMO, he destroyed whatever evidence he could quickly. Waiting to see if he was going to be a suspect, and then deciding to destroy evidence would be very risky. Of course he could be a sloppy murderer, and left plenty of evidence. We don't know at this point. We don't even know the details on his original arrests. IMO, it would be stupid to have identity from a prior crime you've already been convicted of as well. BUT, if it was a stolen credit card from the Liknes that he planned to use to flee the area, or attempt to withdraw money, well, stranger things have happened! Perhaps he planned to flee the area and go undetected for years like he had before. All theories, but no facts at this point. **first time trying to multiquote since the forum changed...let's see how it goes!**

 

[2Hope4]

sillybilly... good thinking! There could have been several motives for the murders. Perhaps he did envy the couple, or have a lust for Kathryn. I guess time will tell.

 

[bakerlady]

Sure. But how many leave their front hallway light? That's what we're talking about.

That's what I mean. I leave the front hall light on. And the outside motion detector light. I also leave on the light above the kitchen sink and the bathroom light. My kids often get up and get a drink of water or use the bathroom and they are scared of the dark.

 

[bakerlady]

Ok crazy thought here...

Could DG have used a gun on AL and KL and kept it quiet using a silencer?

I also might have watched too many movies ha ha but I know I've seen things like a potato, lawn mower mufflers etc used as silencers.

Could DG have designed his own silencer seeing as he was a bit of an innovator?


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I am extremely fearful of guns so I have never really been close enough to one when it is fired but my guess is that a basement could muffle the sound pretty well.

 

[Cherchri]

As I stated earlier up the threads, the standard in which the ME uses to determine actual death without the actual body, is EXTREMELY high - There needs to be a preponderance of evidence. Also, for the Crown to move forward with homicide charges without the bodies, they would require overwhelming evidence to move forward to the next stage of trial. I really don't believe that there is a cover-up for anything or anyone else. The CPS Major Crimes Unit, the Forensic Unit and the ME are all top-notch professionals and I'm inclined to trust them.

Hear hear!

 

[Cherchri]

That's what I mean. I leave the front hall light on. And the outside motion detector light. I also leave on the light above the kitchen sink and the bathroom light. My kids often get up and get a drink of water or use the bathroom and they are scared of the dark.

We do too. The porch light, the entrance hall and a lamp between the living room and kitchen.

 

[bakerlady]

I think DG might be a genius but that has nothing to with his moral fiber or impulse control.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

We do too. The porch light, the entrance hall and a lamp between the living room and kitchen.

We use night lights, four upstairs and four downstairs. In the farmyard we also have a yard light so we can look out and see if anyone is there.

 

[Cherchri]

http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...e+about+Nathan+Brien+case/10029846/story.html

 

[bakerlady]

In a way I think it's good that LE is being tight lipped in this case. I get the notion that some lawyers will try to get in on this to build their reputation kind of like Jose Baez did with Casey Anthony and DG will have an excellent defense team. Sickening to think that a good defense team can get a murderer acquitted but it does happen.

The more information is made public the more that the defense has to use to their advantage, which would be good if the accused was innocent, but very bad if they are in face guilty.

Although I am extremely curious myself, it seems LE feels strongly that there is no threat to public safety at this time, and the details will come out in the trial.

 

[ilovepierre]

Have you ever tried to paint in the daytime, with lights on? Lights in the daytime cast a lot of shadows. JMO but I don't think LE would rely on overhead lighting looking for evidence, they likely have their own system.

That explains why no one turns the lights on on CSI.
I was always wondered about that...I was like "wouldn't it be easier to see stuff if the lights were on?"
But it makes sense now why they don't!

 

[otto]

Ok crazy thought here...

Could DG have used a gun on AL and KL and kept it quiet using a silencer?

I also might have watched too many movies ha ha but I know I've seen things like a potato, lawn mower mufflers etc used as silencers.

Could DG have designed his own silencer seeing as he was a bit of an innovator?


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Why would there be a violent struggle if a gun was used?

 

[otto]

I think DG might be a genius but that has nothing to with his moral fiber or impulse control.

I'm curious about who declared the suspect a genius. Was that in the same report where it was alleged that trauma he suffered from an imaginary car accident resulted in his withdrawal from university? We know that he was expelled from university for cheating ... nothing to do with a car accident. I suspect that there are many errors in that particular document.

 

[kaley]

And maybe whoever did it simply suffocated them simultaneously with their pillows, or knocked one out and strangled the rest...maybe there isn't a murder weapon at all.

Perhaps but the police reported that there were signs of a violent struggle and DNA which to me could only mean blood.

 

[kaley]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nd-alvin-liknes-held-at-legislature-1.2715309

 

[KMouse]

http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...e+about+Nathan+Brien+case/10029846/story.html

Here is another haunting case from my neck of the woods where somebody was charged and the body never located
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/12/...-says-sister-of-christine-jack-25-years-later

 

[Krystine]

We don't know their habits. The light could have been left on from the morning of the sale, and they forgot it. Or they could be the type that leaves a light on. Perhaps the daughter left it on when she left at 10PM and the Liknes didn't know the light was on. Unless the outlet to turn that light on was in a place that only someone close to the family knew, I think the light is a non issue. True. We don't know. We don't know that Douglas used that hose at all. Nothing released has stated the hose was used. It's been stated as a fact, but it's not. Again, the light to me is a non issue, as we do not know the habits of the Liknes. They might have normally left a light on. They could have been up late packing stuff that was left from the sale, gathering things to dispose of, etc., and were just tired and left the light on, or were attacked while still up, and the perp left it on for whatever reason. Many people do. *snipped by accident...** We truly don't know anything about a timeline other than the 10p-10a. As the perp wasn't there when the daughter left, and wasn't there when she returned. That's 12hrs that the perp had. Whether he realized he had 12hrs or not, we don't know. Some are saying he had days to dispose of things, and in the literal sense he did. However, he didn't know how long he would have, nor if someone would immediately suspect him. Thus, IMO, he destroyed whatever evidence he could quickly. Waiting to see if he was going to be a suspect, and then deciding to destroy evidence would be very risky. Of course he could be a sloppy murderer, and left plenty of evidence. We don't know at this point. We don't even know the details on his original arrests. IMO, it would be stupid to have identity from a prior crime you've already been convicted of as well. BUT, if it was a stolen credit card from the Liknes that he planned to use to flee the area, or attempt to withdraw money, well, stranger things have happened! Perhaps he planned to flee the area and go undetected for years like he had before. All theories, but no facts at this point. **first time trying to multiquote since the forum changed...let's see how it goes!**

There's a lot we don't know, which is why we speculate and brainstorm on here, I think.
To quote Corner Gas,,," I don't know the same things that you don't know"...

 

[otto]

Perhaps but the police reported that there were signs of a violent struggle and DNA which to me could only mean blood.

Everything we learned from police and the presence of the medical examiner suggests a violent, bloody murder. Handguns are prohibited and silencers are something from the movies, but guns are still suggested as the murder weapon.

list of prohibited weapons in Canada:

http://www.firearms-safety-course.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=23

Neighbours from the South illegally importing guns:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1463659/12-guns-seized-at-coutts-border-crossing/