Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[news.talk]

I think everyone is starting to over think this. I do not believe DG is a serial killer or has engaged in activities with prostitiutes. IMO serial killers rarely go from random victims to someone they know so personally.

The motive for this crime was fame and fortune. I believe AL promised many things to DG for his patent work and fed him a bunch of BS about making millions. I think AL's history shows that he has misled many people to invest time, money, etc in to his businesses and has left them with nothing at the end. I think DG came to the conclusion that AL screwed him over and in DG's eyes was now skipping town and DG was not going to let him get away with it again. This was a premeditated crime of anger and revenge. Nothing else. As for NO, as has been said, wrong place, wrong time. DG could not let him go as I think NO knew who he was, had seen him around the family at times and would be able to identify him.

IMO, LE are looking into potential links to other violent crimes because as stated, one does not go from non-violent crimes to a triple murder that includes a young child overnight. DG has never lived within the law and seemingly has no respect for authority and significantly lacks moral fibre. He stole the identity of a deceased teen. It also stands to reason that anyone involved in the production of meth, would have some seedy ties.

As far as motive - we don't know yet and perhaps we never will.

 

[bakerlady]

"The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) provides responsive front-line death investigation and death certification services."

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/fatality/ocme/Pages/default.aspx

The medical examiner does not attend crime scenes unless it relates to death. The three have been declared dead by the medical examiner.

Yes but how would death be determined by anyone other than the medical examiner in order for him to be called in the first place?

It is not up to detectives to make that determination, so whether there was a real death or suspected death, either way the medical examiner would need to be called. IMO it does not mean that for certain a death occurred in the home.

 

[news.talk]

I suspect that in order to declare the three victims deceased, there was evidence of blood, and potentially dismemberment, at the home. I agree that the first victim to be identified was most likely the grandmother.

As usual Otto, we are on the same page...

From my recollection, an initial test on a blood sample to see wether there's a Y chromosome or not (gender) can be obtained quickly. DNA processing takes longer.

 

[bakerlady]

IMO, LE are looking into potential links to other violent crimes because as stated, one does not go from non-violent crimes to a triple murder that includes a young child overnight. DG has never lived within the law and seemingly has no respect for authority and significantly lacks moral fibre. He stole the identity of a deceased teen. It also stands to reason that anyone involved in the production of meth, would have some seedy ties.

As far as motive - we don't know yet and perhaps we never will.

Especially such a well executed crime.

Lets imagine that DG's truck never was recorded on film. Would LE have anything else to link him to the crime? It seems like this was an experienced killer. First time murderers usually leave more evidence IMO.

 

[news.talk]

Especially such a well executed crime.

Lets imagine that DG's truck never was recorded on film. Would LE have anything else to link him to the crime? It seems like this was an experienced killer. First time murderers usually leave more evidence IMO.

Agreed. I firmly believe LE uncovered much more evidence than just the truck circling the area. They would need a preponderance of evidence (as they stated - piece by piece by piece) in order for the Crown to lay charges.

When my Dad was on Homicide, they would have have separate teams of detectives follow separate theories - in this case, one followed the DG connection, one followed the estate sale link and so on. Once one theory takes on more weight and the others are exhausted, they become singular in their investigation.

 

[news.talk]

Yes but how would death be determined by anyone other than the medical examiner in order for him to be called in the first place?

It is not up to detectives to make that determination, so whether there was a real death or suspected death, either way the medical examiner would need to be called. IMO it does not mean that for certain a death occurred in the home.

I suspect it had a lot to do with what was found at the crime scene. Without bodies, there was more than likely substantial blood loss and/or other human matter.

 

[otto]

Yes but how would death be determined by anyone other than the medical examiner in order for him to be called in the first place?

It is not up to detectives to make that determination, so whether there was a real death or suspected death, either way the medical examiner would need to be called. IMO it does not mean that for certain a death occurred in the home.

What that tells us is that when police arrived at the scene, they had reason to believe that there had been a murder ... "medical distress" that suggested death.

 

[CalgaryFilly]

Interesting interview with the Chief of LE on the 23rd. I apologize if this is a duplicate.

At one point RH refers to DG as a serial killer....

http://www.newstalk770.com/2014/07/23/35834/

 

[Leeby]

Veering a little bit off topic here but how did that conversation get recorded? Are all cell phone conversations recorded and able to be retrieved? I am so confused about this. Was that an actual phone call that someone else made to her and they were silent on the other end of the line? I just don't get it.

Amber Tuccaro left this as a voice message on a friends phone and IIRC police state it was the last phone call ever made from her cell phone. She was engaged in high risk activity and was from out of town, but had previously lived in Edmonton. Amber, a friend and Amber's 1 yr old son, had checked into a motel in Nisku, AB... Amber left the motel to catch a ride to Edmonton - possibly to score drugs- and aside from this voice message, was never seen or heard from again.

IMO Amber was scared of the person she had hitched a ride from and so she discretely tried to call a friend, hoping to give enough details that the friend could alert police... Sadly, Amber's friend did not answer their phone and instead this cryptic voicemail was left ...

Here is a link for reference:

http://globalnews.ca/news/962931/rcmp-hope-new-billboard-will-help-solve-amber-tuccaro-cold-case/

 

[otto]

Especially such a well executed crime.

Lets imagine that DG's truck never was recorded on film. Would LE have anything else to link him to the crime? It seems like this was an experienced killer. First time murderers usually leave more evidence IMO.

Without video surveillance of the truck, I believe it would have taken a long time to solve the triple murder. Fingerprint evidence at the scene would have been useless due to the 200 people that had been through the home that weekend. The bodies are well hidden, so when they are discovered, it's quite likely that there will be little evidence. If there was a smoking gun pointing at the suspect, it was the truck. That is the one thing that allowed police to discover the second crime scene.

 

[otto]

Interesting interview with the Chief of LE on the 23rd. I apologize if this is a duplicate.

At one point RH refers to DG as a serial killer....

http://www.newstalk770.com/2014/07/23/35834/

I suppose three murders would constitute a serial murderer ... I'm hearing "mass murderer" rather than "serial murderer". He is definitely a mass murderer.

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder too. I listened to that audio very carefully 2years ago because the "accent" stuck out to me. The guy said "absolutely" with his own particular vernacular and he said it a couple of times, as though it were a word he used often ...to me the voice didn't sound familiar in the slightest, but the way the man said "absolutely" sounded very "rural central Alberta"... It had a twang in it I have heard often from around Calgary, Red Deer, Panoka
ect...

He also seems to have an extremely creepy, Freudian slip when he said they are going "South" of Beaumont and then immediately changed it to "North" of Beaumont.

Here's the link again so people don't have to go back in time:

http://www.kare.ca

It would be very weird if someone recognized it as DG... No one in the public has really heard him speak, but for a few words to reporters here and there...

I listened to the audio enough times that I believe if I ever heard someone say "absolutely", just the right way, I would recognize the voice from the tape...because it sounds Albertan IMO.

When I hear "absolutely" it makes me think it is a drunken slur... I think the man of this voice was intoxicated.

 

[LoisLane]

Without video surveillance of the truck, I believe it would have taken a long time to solve the triple murder. Fingerprint evidence at the scene would have been useless due to the 200 people that had been through the home that weekend. The bodies are well hidden, so when they are discovered, it's quite likely that there will be little evidence. If there was a smoking gun pointing at the suspect, it was the truck. That is the one thing that allowed police to discover the second crime scene.

Or when the time came that they were able to apprrehend DG and lay murder charges they had finger print results placing him in the home.

 

[CalgaryFilly]

I suppose that it would, however it surprised me. He is always so careful in his wording.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I suppose three murders would constitute a serial murderer.

3 killings in one incident does not qualify as a serial killer as it lacks the cooling off period in between.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Serial_killer.html

 

[otto]

3 killings in one incident does not qualify as a serial killer as it lacks the cooling off period in between.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Serial_killer.html

The police chief does not say "serial murderer". He says "mass murderer".

 

[bakerlady]

I know LE is reading this forum so I really really hope that they do a voice recognition with DG's voice and that recording from Amber Tucarro.

(I had a major duh moment when I read it was a voice mail)

 

[PrincessButtercup]

The police chief does not say "serial murderer". He says "mass murderer".

Yes, you're the one who said serial killer .... then edited your post to add the mass murderer part.

I suppose three murders would constitute a serial murderer ... I'm hearing "mass murderer" rather than "serial murderer". He is definitely a mass murderer.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I know LE is reading this forum so I really really hope that they do a voice recognition with DG's voice and that recording from Amber Tucarro.

(I had a major duh moment when I read it was a voice mail)

Unless the voice has no similarities.

 

[otto]

I know LE is reading this forum so I really really hope that they do a voice recognition with DG's voice and that recording from Amber Tucarro.

(I had a major duh moment when I read it was a voice mail)

I wouldn't be too convinced of that. Homicide investigators can probably do their jobs without looking to crime forum discussions to get ideas. I know that in some cases in the US, police and defence lawyers look at crime forum discussion, but I think the opinion in a place like Calgary might be along the lines of thinking that if police need to read a forum to get ideas after an arrest has been made, then maybe they should look for another job.