Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[stan laurel]

The bodies went somewhere. Given that there was a "violent incident" where someone was in "medical distress" and the medical examiner attended the scene, it's quite likely that all three were deceased prior to leaving the first crime scene. Police located a second crime scene through the identification of a green Ford T150 that was seen in the area several times on the night of the murder. The accused had four days prior to the identification of his vehicle in the crime scene area. Although the accused kept a second copy (prior conviction using same name) of false identification papers in his possession, he got rid of the bodies in those four days. I suppose he wouldn't have been in a hurry, as his parents were out of town.

not in a hurry, nor knowing that the cops were on to him, why wasn't there quicker found evidence like dellen millard? DG still managed to keep them looking for weeks on the property, so why was he so tidy and quick? I don't think they are there.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I haven't read through and dont know if this has already been responded to. Currently in that specific location there is a large empty car dealer ship. Its a huge vacant lot with a totally empty and abandoned building. Behind it is the rv sales lot and it may share a yard with a few other industrial type buildings. Ill drive by tomorrow and get a better idea for you guys. Unless in my reading I see its all ready been sorted out. Also...the city view comes out once a week...likely why if it happened on the 19th is was not released until the 24. Airdrie does not have a daily paper.

Thank you! I've been extremely curious. We've discussed what's around that area of the road block but we haven't heard confirmation on what exactly is in the location of the old Ford dealership. I'm assuming it's a locked up abandoned building? I wonder if theirs cameras around that area? Maybe they caught his truck on a camera. It's still unsure whether they were searching that building or the surrounding area also, why would they suspect they'd find them there?

 

[Touchtherapy]

Thank you! I've been extremely curious. We've discussed what's around that area of the road block but we haven't heard confirmation on what exactly is in the location of the old Ford dealership. I'm assuming it's a locked up abandoned building? I wonder if theirs cameras around that area? Maybe they caught his truck on a camera. It's still unsure whether they were searching that building or the surrounding area also, why would they suspect they'd find them there?

no problem. right now. Its completely vacant. Propak may have purchased it but they have not moved in. There would be security footage not necessarily on the building itself..but from surrounding businesses and traffic cams. No matter which way dg may have driven there...he would come through at least 2 sets of lights with potential traffic cameras. Maybe someone reviewed their security footage from the night of the crime or they started reviewing airdrie traffic cams to see how or if he came into the city.

 

[otto]

I haven't read through and dont know if this has already been responded to. Currently in that specific location there is a large empty car dealer ship. Its a huge vacant lot with a totally empty and abandoned building. Behind it is the rv sales lot and it may share a yard with a few other industrial type buildings. Ill drive by tomorrow and get a better idea for you guys. Unless in my reading I see its all ready been sorted out. Also...the city view comes out once a week...likely why if it happened on the 19th is was not released until the 24. Airdrie does not have a daily paper.

Can you draw an arrow to the building? This is the best I can figure out between roadblock and the building that has been suggested. I would expect different roadblocks if the building was relevant. I'm curious about whether he was cutting through on his way to his parent's acreage after leaving (being asked to leave) his hotel.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The bodies went somewhere. Given that there was a "violent incident" where someone was in "medical distress" and the medical examiner attended the scene, it's quite likely that all three were deceased prior to leaving the first crime scene. Police located a second crime scene through the identification of a 92-93 pristine condition green Ford T150 that was seen in the area several times on the night of the murder. The accused had four days prior to the identification of his vehicle in the crime scene area. Although the accused kept a second copy (prior conviction using same name) of false identification papers in his possession, he got rid of the bodies in those four days. I suppose he wouldn't have been in a hurry, as his parents were out of town.

In terms of the scale that is used for psychological assessment (posted upthread), what does it say about someone that they transport three bodies to their parent's home and contemplate how to dispose of the bodies ... murder has two stages: committing the murder, and deciding what to do with the body.

If he had the privacy at his parent's home, he would have done it there I believe. I don't think he did it at the Liknes home/bathtub as some theories have stated. Ugh, it's hard to think about…REALLY hoping he didn't.

 

[otto]

If we don't have confirmation that he was at the Motel 6 on the West side of the Highway, then he might have been at the Holiday Inn when he was asked to leave, and where he made his way to his parents patio before the spotlights were turned on. Police would most likely follow his tracks, which could explain why the road was temporarily closed.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If we don't have confirmation that he was at the Motel 6 on the West side of the Highway, then he might have been at the Holiday Inn when he was asked to leave, and where he made his way to his parents patio before the spotlights were turned on. Police would most likely follow his tracks, which could explain why the road was temporarily closed.

The caption mentioned "as part of the search for the bodies", why that building or area? Why would that location be suspect for a body disposal? They could be searching for the reason you stated also, but the mention of body search makes me think they thought he was at the location with bodies before his arrest.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Maybe it's bad wording on the caption, it could've read: "as part of the search for evidence" or "as part of the search for clues" maybe they misused the word bodies as maybe they only did a standard search for anything related to the crime. Some media publications have lazy writing and not fact checking (no offense to anyone who works in media on WS).

 

[otto]

If he had the privacy at his parent's home, he would have done it there I believe. I don't think he did it at the Liknes home/bathtub as some theories have stated. Ugh, it's hard to think about…REALLY hoping he didn't.

I've learned that military can haul a 200 pound body, but could the accused haul up to 200 pounds of dead weight times three out of the house in an hour? Dragging, he could accomplish dragging someone out of the house, but the Amber Alert said that the child might be in the company of his grandfather ... which suggested that his grandmother might not be there and his grandfather was not dragged out of the house ... which suggested that the drag marks might relate to the grandmother ... which means that he hauled the grandmother out of the house and left drag marks. If he had to drag the short 130 pound grandmother to get her out of the house, how did he get the 200 pound six foot grandfather out of the house?

Going back to the comments made at the first press conference ... does anyone have a link? I think the father said that Nathan had strong faith and his soul was with God, and sthe mother said that her mother would have been protecting her son ... arms around him comment? I really liked the comment Nathan's dad made: the older he got, the kinder he became. He was holding a butterfly that his son had made for him. I'm not 100% I got it right, but revisiting those comments might reveal a lot about what happened ... knowing what we know now.

 

[Shags0sh]

If the perp planned this at all, I'm confident he would have planned a way in, and not simply hoped they would leave a door or window unlocked.

I'm not at all disputing that it was planned, IMO it was planned and calculated for days, if not months. Also, not denying he most probably had all the tools he needed to break in....I just don't think he needed them, as IMO the doors weren't locked.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I've learned that military can haul a 200 pound body, but could the accused haul up to 200 pounds of dead weight times three out of the house in an hour? Dragging, he could accomplish dragging someone out of the house, but the Amber Alert said that the child might be in the company of his grandfather ... which suggested that his grandmother might not be there and his grandfather was not dragged out of the house ... which suggested that the drag marks might relate to the grandmother ... which means that he hauled the grandmother out of the house and left drag marks. If he had to drag the short 130 pound grandmother to get her out of the house, how did he get the 200 pound six foot grandfather out of the house?

Going back to the comments made at the first press conference ... does anyone have a link? I think the father said that Nathan had strong faith and his soul was with God, and sthe mother said that her mother would have been protecting her son ... arms around him comment? I really liked the comment Nathan's dad made: the older he got, the kinder he became. He was holding a butterfly that his son had made for him. I'm not 100% I got it right, but revisiting those comments might reveal a lot about what happened ... knowing what we know now.

It's definitely something to question about how he could've transported a 200 lb man to a vehicle. I hate to even bring up the despicable Jodi Arias, but didn't she drag her victim from the hallway back to the shower? Maybe there was only drag marks from KL because she wasn't blanketed/covered up as good (running out of time) and blood soaked through. Maybe if he covered up AL first, he wasn't as rushed. I get what you're saying though, it does seem like an physically awkward task.

Oh, and the press conference I can't even watch. I have a toddler at home and I can't fathom how this family must feel. I truly feel children become angels of sorts, and I'm not hardcore religious, but you almost want to believe they do to help swallow all the sadness.

 

[otto]

Maybe it's bad wording on the caption, it could've read: "as part of the search for evidence" or "as part of the search for clues" maybe they misused the word bodies as maybe they only did a standard search for anything related to the crime. Some media publications have lazy writing and not fact checking (no offense to anyone who works in media on WS).

Police do not know where the bodies of the victims can be found, but after four days at the Liknes home, and a couple of weeks at the Garland acreage, they declared them deceased. Did evidence at both crime scenes confirm their suspicions ... or did evidence from the first crime scene return after two weeks confirming that the victims were deceased? Why were investigators particularly interested in a burn/composting site on the property ... tents et al?

 

[otto]

It's definitely something to question about how he could've transported a 200 lb man to a vehicle. I hate to even bring up the despicable Jodi Arias, but didn't she drag her victim from the hallway back to the shower? Maybe there was only drag marks from KL because she wasn't blanketed/covered up as good (running out of time) and blood soaked through. Maybe if he covered up AL first, he wasn't as rushed. I get what you're saying though, it does seem like an physically awkward task.

Oh, and the press conference I can't even watch. I have a toddler at home and I can't fathom how this family must feel. I truly feel children become angels of sorts, and I'm not hardcore religious, but you almost want to believe they do to help swallow all the sadness.

If he resorted to dragging when it came to 130 pounds what did he do with 200 pounds? It's not only "physically awkward", but after dragging the up to 200 pound victims out of the house and down the sidewalk, he still had to hoist them into the back of his truck and cover them up with something like a tarp or bedding.

Regarding toddlers at home, I can't imagine that anyone would expose a child to what happened. Nathan's older brother would know, and his friends would know, but hopefully every other child was not told about the five year old boy that had a sleepover at his grandparents home and was murdered along with his intended targets grandparents. That's really harsh, and hopefully no children heard the story of Nathan's life cut short under those circumstance.

All those green balloons and some children hearing the story of Nathan ... and a ... sorry to say it ... polluted environment for bird and animal life due to balloons.

The nine day church service was more appropriate.

 

[otto]

Maybe the accused brought his break and enter tools to the Liknes property on June 29, 2014, only to discover the front door unlocked. Perhaps he had a gun with a homemade silencer. Perhaps he shot everyone that moved, including the five year old child. That would account for two planned and deliberate first degree murder charges, and a second degree murder charge for the "wasn't supposed to be there" death of Nathan Obrien. Perhaps he planned to put the victims in the back of his truck, but dragging people out of the house was difficult. Perhaps he took them to his parent's property (they were on vacation) and used chemicals on the remains to hasten decomposition. Perhaps he burned the remains. Whatever he did, it is most likely far worse than we can imagine.

 

[otto]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Winter Petroleum had a number of short term Professional Engineer employees over the last 20 years. I'm thinking that professional engineers would be hired into what appeared to be a professional engineering environment, only to learn that there was a shortage of professional engineers. I suspect that the company needed a professional engineer on staff, and that Winter Petroleum was unable to keep them on staff. I wonder who commandeered land procurement in about 2000 when Winter Petroleum was ready to take the dive ... again (bankruptcy in 1994). It looks like the High Level investment was made in 2000.

 

[Krystine]

Growing up in Calgary, some of the homes I have lived in have the milk chute by the back door. I haven't seen any photos of the back door area of the Parkhill home.

Milk chutes were popular in the 1950's up until the late 60's. The L's home was built in the 80's, long after milk delivery became obsolete. Builders stopped building them in as a feature.

 

[goodasgold]

not in a hurry, nor knowing that the cops were on to him, why wasn't there quicker found evidence like dellen millard? DG still managed to keep them looking for weeks on the property, so why was he so tidy and quick? I don't think they are there.

Maybe the intense search on the property was not just to find these three but to see if there was anything else there that relates to other crimes. JMO

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Was wondering about something. As WS will recall, when LE originally went to the farm, someone from a professional organization not MSM twittered that the remains of the family were discovered on the farm. He later removed the twitter but when questioned he said he listened to police radio and heard that the remains had been located of the three victims perhaps I speculate in that tented area discussed on WS. What I am wondering is and I don't believe this person was lying, what was said on police radio? Did LE originally believe they had discovered the remains on the farm putting together the fact that later they said they have enough evidence to determine death and death by homicide? If so how does still looking for the bodies come into this?

 

[Krystine]

Was wondering about something. As WS will recall, when LE originally went to the farm, someone from a professional organization not MSM twittered that the remains of the family were discovered on the farm. He later removed the twitter but when questioned he said he listened to police radio and heard that the remains had been located of the three victims perhaps I speculate in that tented area discussed on WS. What I am wondering is and I don't believe this person was lying, what was said on police radio? Did LE originally believe they had discovered the remains on the farm putting together the fact that later they said they have enough evidence to determine death and death by homicide? If so how does still looking for the bodies come into this?

I have been following the WS posts since the very beginning, and don't recall that retracted Twitter. Was there any discussion on here at all about it?
Given the very careful efforts by LE to keep details realeased to a minimum, and LE being aware of private individuals with access to police communications, I would be very surprised that the finding of remains would be broadcast over police band radio. JMO.

 

[puppyraiser]

Was wondering about something. As WS will recall, when LE originally went to the farm, someone from a professional organization not MSM twittered that the remains of the family were discovered on the farm. He later removed the twitter but when questioned he said he listened to police radio and heard that the remains had been located of the three victims perhaps I speculate in that tented area discussed on WS. What I am wondering is and I don't believe this person was lying, what was said on police radio? Did LE originally believe they had discovered the remains on the farm putting together the fact that later they said they have enough evidence to determine death and death by homicide? If so how does still looking for the bodies come into this?

I wonder if the report out of Ontario about three bodies located in a burnt out car near Barrie was transmitted via radio in Alberta since LE was looking for three bodies at that time. I think the timing was very close between the guy's tweet and when Ontario police were at the scene of the burned car.